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Rumors of Changes to Temple Worship

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5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think we dropped the ball, so to speak , once we abandoned the Old Testament custom of swearing oaths whilst cupping testicles. 

No doubt this was just to accommodate radical feminists ...

Obviously 😂

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6 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I can’t think of a time where a major alteration in ordinances and covenants has not been accompanied by an explanation.

Can you please provide some examples of what you have in mind?

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10 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Can you please provide some examples of what you have in mind?

Well D&C 74, Moroni 8:8, and Acts 15 all point out that the Lord fulfilled, for example, the Law of Circumsision and thus altered the covenant/rite. The Apostles has some disputations about it and God resolved it through revelation (after much debate it would seem). In fact when Circumsision was introduced the Lord explained what the intent was to Abraham.

When the Lord introduced the Law of Moses, He explained why to Moses. When Polygamy was formally made known to Joseph, the Lord explained why. When the Lord gave Adam a new ordinances of sacrifice, He explained why. Of course some of these took a little while before the Lord saw fit to explain the reasoning behind it, but He always did. 

 

I dont mean to come off off rude by any means, nor do I want to come off sounding like I don’t believe the changes now are inspired. The Lord works in mysterious ways, however, I still have questions.

Edited by SettingDogStar
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2 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

Well D&C 74, Moroni 8:8, and Acts 15 all point out that the Lord fulfilled, for example, the Law of Circumsision and thus altered the covenant/rite.

Mate, the people actually involved didn't have either D&C 74 or Moroni 8:8. I've just reread Acts 15. Here is the entire content of the letter sent to the Gentile converts:

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The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: it seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; that ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Can you please identify where in this epistle the Lord provided His reasons for doing away with the requirement of circumcision for these converts? The closest I can find to any explanation are the words near the end: 'it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us'. How is that any different to 'The apostles have been inspired'? Do you think this statement would necessarily have satisfied the believing Pharisees who had been telling the new Christians that they were in a state of apostasy unless they adopted all the rites and ordinances of the Law of Moses?

To me, 'It seems good that we no longer do X' =/= 'Here are the revealed reasons why we no longer do X'.

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When Polygamy was formally made known to Joseph, the Lord explained why.

And what were the reasons given to the Prophet Joseph?

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When the Lord gave Adam a new ordinances of sacrifice, He explained why.

Yes. 'After many days' of Adam obeying the commandment without explanation. I'm not sure this was the best example to illustrate your point.

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I dont mean to come off off rude by any means ...

Please don't worry about that. I haven't found your comments 'rude' in any way. Happy to interact!

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5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I love the idea that gold and silver are going to have value with everything collapses. It would help in a national collapse but most of the preppers live in the United States and if the dollar goes so does the world economy. If you want to be rich at the end of the world stockpile cigarettes and toilet paper.

Nope. Chocolate is the ticket. People will give anything for chocolate.

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16 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

People will give anything for chocolate.

Not I. Now chillies ...

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5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Not I. Now chillies ...

Chocolate AND chilies....mmmmm.

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9 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Not I. Now chillies ...

I would gladly give you some of my chocolate for some of your chilies. I prefer Chimayo, but will settle for Hatch. Have you tried a Carolina Reaper?

Edited by Bernard Gui

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Maybe this topic shouldn't be discussed, just read my email and this was sent:  https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/temple-worship

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has issued the following statement:

"Whenever the Lord has had a people on the earth who will obey His word, they have been commanded to build temples. Scriptures document patterns of temple worship from the times of Adam and Eve, Moses, Solomon, Nephi, and others.

With the restoration of the gospel in these latter days, temple worship has also been restored to bless the lives of people across the world and on the other side of the veil as well.

Over these many centuries, details associated with temple work have been adjusted periodically, including language, methods of construction, communication, and record-keeping. Prophets have taught that there will be no end to such adjustments as directed by the Lord to His servants.

A dedicated temple is the most holy of any place of worship on the earth. Its ordinances are sacred and are not discussed outside a holy temple."

Edited by Tacenda

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46 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Maybe this topic shouldn't be discussed, just read my email and this was sent:  https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/temple-worship

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has issued the following statement:

"Whenever the Lord has had a people on the earth who will obey His word, they have been commanded to build temples. Scriptures document patterns of temple worship from the times of Adam and Eve, Moses, Solomon, Nephi, and others.

With the restoration of the gospel in these latter days, temple worship has also been restored to bless the lives of people across the world and on the other side of the veil as well.

Over these many centuries, details associated with temple work have been adjusted periodically, including language, methods of construction, communication, and record-keeping. Prophets have taught that there will be no end to such adjustments as directed by the Lord to His servants.

A dedicated temple is the most holy of any place of worship on the earth. Its ordinances are sacred and are not discussed outside a holy temple."

It is okay. I already repented. ;) 

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19 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

I can’t think of a time where a major alteration in ordinances and covenants has not been accompanied by an explanation. Obviously He doesn’t explain everything He does, but when it comes to those two things He seems to be extremely consistent in scripture.

The Temple has been massively changed several times over the decades, with a notable change being made in 1990.  Where can I find an "explanation" from the Lord for the changes that were made then?

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41 minutes ago, cinepro said:

The Temple has been massively changed several times over the decades, with a notable change being made in 1990.  Where can I find an "explanation" from the Lord for the changes that were made then?

I don't know if this answers your question but read then Elder Boyd K. Packer's Oct. 1989 conference talk, he talks about Temple ordinances and revelation

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1989/10/revelation-in-a-changing-world?lang=eng

Edited by Duncan
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3 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I don't know if this answers your question but read then Elder Boyd K. Packer's Oct. 1989 conference talk, he talks about Temple ordinances and revelation

Best quote:

Quote

There will be changes made in the future as in the past. Whether the Brethren make changes or resist them depends entirely upon the instructions they receive through the channels of revelation which were established in the beginning.

 

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53 minutes ago, cinepro said:

The Temple has been massively changed several times over the decades, with a notable change being made in 1990.  Where can I find an "explanation" from the Lord for the changes that were made then?

That’s my point. There hasn’t been an explantion for the recent changes (meaning 1990 and more recent alterations). Yet there has seemingly been an explantion for every other ordinances or covenant change in the past dispensation.

Edited by SettingDogStar
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21 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

That’s my point. There hasn’t been an explantion for the recent changes (meaning 1990 and more recent alterations). Yet there has seemingly been an explantion for every other ordinances or covenant change in the past dispensation.

I can't say for sure but I am aware of statements from both Pres.Oaks and Packer and Elder Maxwell, that the Lord gives more instructions than explanations, now maybe God did say why but the leaders just didn't say why or maybe God didn't say why? who knows

 “I have found that the Lord gives more instructions than explanations.” Elder Maxwell, A Disciple’s Life: The Biography of Neal A. Maxwell (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2002), 413.

 

Apparently in 1990 there was a statement made by the Church about the Temple change, "We are a church that believes in modern and continuous revelation, and the changes that were recently made in our temple ceremony are reflective of that process," now where that statement also contains. In 1990 I was 12 so all I cared about was Wrestlemania 6 and TMNT

Edited by Duncan

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19 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I can't say for sure but I am aware of statements from both Pres.Oaks and Packer and Elder Maxwell, that the Lord gives more instructions than explanations, now maybe God did say why but the leaders just didn't say why or maybe God didn't say why? who knows

 “I have found that the Lord gives more instructions than explanations.” Elder Maxwell, A Disciple’s Life: The Biography of Neal A. Maxwell (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2002), 413.

 

Apparently in 1990 there was a statement made by the Church about the Temple change, "We are a church that believes in modern and continuous revelation, and the changes that were recently made in our temple ceremony are reflective of that process," now where that statement also contains. In 1990 I was 12 so all I cared about was Wrestlemania 6 and TMNT

For me, further light and knowledge implies explanations and clarity.  But, if our prophets, seers, and revelators have no expectation of such, it seems unlikely that we'll receive it.

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38 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

Yet there has seemingly been an explantion for every other ordinances or covenant change in the past dispensation.

I'm still waiting for you to provide your evidence for this point.

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5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm still waiting for you to provide your evidence for this point.

Agreed.  I would really love to read the explanation for the 1990 temple ordinance changes.

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7 minutes ago, rockpond said:

For me, further light and knowledge implies explanations and clarity.  But, if our prophets, seers, and revelators have no expectation of such, it seems unlikely that we'll receive it.

"The Spirit of the Holy Ghost is the teacher in the temple. He teaches principles of eternal significance. It is during these instructions that we see the relationship between the earthly and the eternal. We must remember that the Spirit teaches only those who are teachable. If we enter the temple seeking added light and knowledge, we can learn and understand something new during the temple experience. The Savior promised: “That which is of God is light; and he that 
 continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day” (D&C 50:24)."

Elder L. Lionel Kendrick, April 2001 conference

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/enhancing-our-temple-experience?lang=eng

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4 minutes ago, Duncan said:

"The Spirit of the Holy Ghost is the teacher in the temple. He teaches principles of eternal significance. It is during these instructions that we see the relationship between the earthly and the eternal. We must remember that the Spirit teaches only those who are teachable. If we enter the temple seeking added light and knowledge, we can learn and understand something new during the temple experience. The Savior promised: “That which is of God is light; and he that 
 continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day” (D&C 50:24)."

Elder L. Lionel Kendrick, April 2001 conference

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/enhancing-our-temple-experience?lang=eng

Fair enough.

What the Holy Spirit has taught me in the temple is that it is all a man-made attempt at reaching toward the divine.  That used to be troublesome to me but with the significant changes that have occurred now twice in my lifetime, the Brethren have confirmed the impression from the spirit and I am comforted with that.

I guess I was hoping that the Prophet and Apostles would give me a reason to conclude that I was wrong, that somehow some part of that ceremony had come from God but they don't seem to want or be able to do that.

Edited by rockpond

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50 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

That’s my point. There hasn’t been an explantion for the recent changes (meaning 1990 and more recent alterations). Yet there has seemingly been an explantion for every other ordinances or covenant change in the past dispensation.

Do we know the general timeline between when changes occurred and when explanations were given for the changes in the past?

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5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

What the Holy Spirit has taught me in the temple is that it is all a man-made attempt at reaching toward the divine. 

We've had radically different experiences in the temple.

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6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Do we know the general timeline between when changes occurred and when explanations were given for the changes in the past?

Haven’t measured it out, though that’s actually what I’ve been doing the last little while since my comment. Some of them seemed instant revelation and others took a few years to get a response.

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34 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Agreed.  I would really love to read the explanation for the 1990 temple ordinance changes.

The point of the post was to say there hasn’t been explanation for recent changes like 1990 but there has been for other changes in biblical history.

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2 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

The point of the post was to say there hasn’t been explanation for recent changes like 1990 but there has been for other changes in biblical history.

You still haven't provided an explanation from the Bible for the discontinuance of circumcision.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan

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