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Rumors of Changes to Temple Worship

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1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

Still eager to hear what the “core” of the ordinances are that you believe have not, nor will ever change.

I listed them in my answer right there, not sure how you missed them. However since you don’t seem to take the Book of Mormon as critical evidence and that it lacks validity, it’s utterly pointless to go back and forth.

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3 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

The spirit.

Which - I readily admit - I suck at following. I am trying to be better at following the spirit, but I’m often wrong in my understanding of what it’s trying to communicate to me. But I’m trying.

So what do you mean when you say, “There is no scriptural evidence for x, y, or z?”

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13 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The bar doesn't move, not now, not ever.

So you don't actually believe in the Law of Moses or the higher law of the gospel? Or in the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods?

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14 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I listed them in my answer right there, not sure how you missed them. However since you don’t seem to take the Book of Mormon as critical evidence and that it lacks validity, it’s utterly pointless to go back and forth.

Huh. I know of absolutely no evidence of an endowment of any kind being found before 1831?

But aside from my lack of 100% trust in the BOM, what are the core elements of the endowment?  Signs?  Names?  Tokens?

People who claim there is a core that doesn’t change in ordinances always seem to have a hard time being specific about what those elements are. I only get generalities...  wonder why...

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

I know of absolutely no evidence of an endowment of any kind being found before 1831?

Margaret Barker in one of her monographs attempted to 'recover' what occurred in the Old Testament temple pre-exile. (As she noted, the Jews returned only with knowledge of the sacrifices and purification rituals that had occurred in the courtyard.) Her conclusion: we'll never know from research since there's too little evidence, but what evidence we have points to three themes: creation, fall and a re-introduction into the presence of the Lord, with many of the objects just inside the temple designed to evoke the Garden of Eden.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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11 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So you don't actually believe in the Law of Moses or the higher law of the gospel? Or in the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods?

Don't be silly.  Of course I do.

And the law of Moses never saved a single person.  That only comes through Jesus Christ.  And the Law of Moses never led any to exaltation.  That only comes through obedience to ALL the laws and ordinances.

The bar never moved.  When Moses was brought up to the bar the "Church" proved unready so they lost the blessings when God revoked the higher law and gave them the law of temporal commandments.

ALL must be saved the same way, by the same principles and ordinances.  The bar remains.  All revocation of eternal things does is widen the gap for us.

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7 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Huh. I know of absolutely no evidence of an endowment of any kind being found before 1831?

But aside from my lack of 100% trust in the BOM, what are the core elements of the endowment?  Signs?  Names?  Tokens?

People who claim there is a core that doesn’t change in ordinances always seem to have a hard time being specific about what those elements are. I only get generalities...  wonder why...

That's not true at all.

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1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

That's not true at all.

I’m honestly not sure what all he’s trying to argue or prove at this point. I’m kinda confused haha

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

And the law of Moses never saved a single person.  That only comes through Jesus Christ. 

But the law was given to prepare the people to come unto Christ.

Quote

And the Law of Moses never led any to exaltation.  That only comes through obedience to ALL the laws and ordinances. 

We're all screwed then, since no mortal has ever obeyed all the laws and ordinances. I feel reasonably certain that when the scriptures say that we are saved and exalted through our faith in Jesus Christ, they're not kidding.

Quote

When Moses was brought up to the bar the "Church" proved unready so they lost the blessings when God revoked the higher law and gave them the law of temporal commandments.

When God did this, I wonder how many self-righteous Israelites were whingeing that Moses was leading everyone astray.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

When God did this, I wonder how many self-righteous Israelites were whingeing that Moses was leading everyone astray.

I don't follow?  They had no law, never received the fullness.  They started out with the lesser.

Quote

We're all screwed then, since no mortal has ever obeyed all the laws and ordinances.

Completely untrue.  Not referring to a lack of sin.  But many obeyed, received all the ordinances, and have entered into their exaltation.

Edited by JLHPROF

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39 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That's not true at all.

What’s not true?

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

I don't follow?  They had no law, never received the fullness.

Mate, you're the one who wrote that 'God revoked the higher law' (emphasis added).

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Does anyone know how people are suppose to pay back tithing in order to receive their recommend? I was thinking if I were to somehow have just enough belief to want to go back how much money should I be scrounging up to do that. How does that work, or should I put this in the tithing thread?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Does anyone know how people are suppose to pay back tithing in order to receive their recommend? I was thinking if I were to somehow have just enough belief to want to go back how much money should I be scrounging up to do that. How does that work, or should I put this in the tithing thread?

I've never heard of being required to pay back tithing, only to start paying it. There may be some who require it that I have not heard of. I also know some personally feel they, themselves should pay it before going, but many are at peace with just starting again. 

Edited by Rain
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7 minutes ago, Rain said:

I've never heard of being required to pay back tithing, only to start paying it.

Yeah, I've never heard of it either.

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2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

ALL must be saved the same way, by the same principles and ordinances.  The bar remains.  All revocation of eternal things does is widen the gap for us.

I agree all must be saved the same way.  I don't agree that the gap widens.  The bar remains the same.  Our capacity to accomplish the Lord's work in less time has increased.  I view the ordinances as the same.  They were prophetically received.  They are prophetically revised by the Lord's mouthpiece on earth.

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15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I have to think the Lord’s Atonement makes up for the arrears in tithing payment for one who is sincerely repentant and wants to obey the commandment going forward. 

As it does with all other spiritual 'debts'.

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15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I have to think the Lord’s Atonement makes up for the arrears in tithing payment for one who is sincerely repentant and wants to obey the commandment going forward. 

Thanks Scott and those that replied as well. I was curious to know what it would take as far as tithing goes and if I were ever to do it and regain a testimony I would pay tithing regularly for several months beforehand or donate it to fast offerings, but it's a big "if". 

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1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

It's a big "if". 

I think it's a 'when'. You remind me of a stray cat that keeps looking at the bowl of warm milk placed thoughtfully on the back verandah but just can't quite decide if having a taste is a commitment too far.

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Just now, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think it's a 'when'. You remind me of a stray cat that keeps looking at the bowl of warm milk placed thoughtfully on the back verandah but just can't quite decide if having a taste is a commitment too far.

Well that's a kind way of putting it. 😁

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10 hours ago, Rain said:

I've never heard of being required to pay back tithing, only to start paying it. There may be some who require it that I have not heard of. I also know some personally feel they, themselves should pay it before going, but many are at peace with just starting again. 

I've heard of it when the 'debt' is from a recent lapse (like someone didn't pay on a paycheck or missed a couple of months maybe), but not when someone was going from inactivity back to full activity or hadn't paid in a long time.

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