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HappyJackWagon

Rumors of Changes to Temple Worship

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4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That would be really cool.

But did they ever find it appropriate to discuss the revelations and changes made in the past?  Or even to discuss the revelations leading to the ordinances at all, outside of the temple?  (Sincere question, I really don't know what has taken place before I was old enough to notice).

I guess my question is, are they behaving differently than our leaders have always behaved in regards to the temple?

 

No.

I think this is how changes in the past have been handled as well.

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1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

I wonder who the fellow at LDSHQ is who:

-monitors Alonzo Gaskill's Facebook feed

-is aware of all the secrets LDS leadership wants kept from the public

-contacts Alonzo and asks him to remove it within a period of hours

That would be one well-oiled, highly-organized, controlling organization!

Or his friend who told him saw it on FB and realized his error in not making it clear he meant it to be personal use only.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Duncan said:

at least you took one!!! I never had anything! I was BLINDSIDED my first time! I thought if my folks can do this and they are semi normal, then I can do it too! hahahha!

I thought the same when I went with my husband and family the first time. Before 1990 I had to go and covenant that I would obey my husband in righteousness. My face must have been hilarious because I was horrified over the word "obey". All along my soul spoke and maybe it eventually led me into disillusionment, I struggled every time in the temple but have a sis-in-law and others in my extended family that work in the temple and could stay all day. 

Edited by Tacenda

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Well I for one am disappointed. I was really looking forward to them adding back in the Adam- God stuff.

😎

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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I thought the same when I went with my husband and family the first time. Before 1990 I had to go and covenant that I would obey my husband in righteousness. My face must have been hilarious because I was horrified over the word "obey". All along my soul spoke and maybe it eventually led me into disillusionment, I struggled every time in the temple but have a sis-in-law and others in my extended family that work in the temple and could stay all day. 

aha! I called my Mum and she had a different reaction! hahhahaha! different strokes for different folks I guess!

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Interesting how in this instance, the leadership teaches that ordinances are sacred and not to be discussed outside the temple, but what is taught on LDS.org about the covenants is fairly open: https://www.lds.org/manual/endowed-from-on-high-temple-preparation-seminar-teachers-manual/lesson-4?lang=eng

It seems to me that the principle of secrecy/sacredness of the temple ordinances is being used here to discourage discussion/speculation about these changes, rather than an honest, thoughtful teaching.

I think it is written in the way that works for the media without a lot of nuance because that part is too often clipped out.  Needs to be something very brief that doesn't require additional explanations to make clear.

Even acknowledging the existence of the ordinances would be talking about it outside.  A rigid interpretation would have them violating their own rule,  It makes more sense imo for members to understand it as consistent with past instructions on how to discuss ordinances in public and private.

If we don't see the removal of the Church's videos about the temple ordinances, I don't think we should assume any changes, but rather the Church's press is communicating with other presses to try and shape how it is presented there.

Edited by Calm
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Posted (edited)

MormonNewsroom statement links to this article with a video which "walks you through the temple"

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/topic/temples

It seems clear to me they provided a very short statement in hopes that it is used in full where reported...which means not particularly nuanced or explaining the how tos.  But it links to additional info for anyone willing to take the time that can provide those nuances, it just takes study.  And it makes it clear by what it requires to learn, imo, that the leadership wants members to be more study orientated rather than just relying on what someone else tells them, leaving their understanding potentially shallow and uninspired.

Edited by Calm

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45 minutes ago, Calm said:

Or his friend who told him saw it on FB and realized his error in not making it clear he meant it to be personal use only.

Maybe - but who is that friend who knew about it?  Is there an apostle who is friends with Alonzo who spends his time on Facebook?

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42 minutes ago, Oliblish said:

 

  1. The movie is new, consisting of little live action at all, mostly still pictures, even of Adam and Eve, with voice-over narration. There is new music, beautiful and appropriate.

This part makes me a little sad.  I loved the most recent movies.

 

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28 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Maybe - but who is that friend who knew about it?  Is there an apostle who is friends with Alonzo who spends his time on Facebook?

Only had to be someone who attended the Nauvoo temple yesterday along with likely dozens, if not hundreds of other members..  Not sure why you think it had to be a higher up.  Are you reading it as Gaskill had knowledge prior to the general rollout?  Because that is not what he said.

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1 minute ago, Calm said:

Only had to be someone who attended the Nauvoo temple yesterday along with likely dozens, if not hundreds of other members..  Not sure why you think it had to be a higher up.  Are you reading it as Gaskill had knowledge prior to the general rollout?  Because that is not what he said.

Good point.  If the summary that @Oliblish provided is true, those there may have reminded him that all who attend are asked to keep it secret.

I'm going to the temple tonight.  Do I tell my wife of these changes?  Tough Q...

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23 minutes ago, Traela said:

This part makes me a little sad.  I loved the most recent movies.

 

Me too. This is pure speculation, but perhaps the new video is merely a placeholder so that the substantive changes can be made now, but that new dramatizations will eventually be made. They take a lot of time to make and Pres. Nelson doesn't seem to be one to wait around.

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9 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Good point.  If the summary that @Oliblish provided is true, those there may have reminded him that all who attend are asked to keep it secret.

I'm going to the temple tonight.  Do I tell my wife of these changes?  Tough Q...

I think you should give her a heads up that it has changed and is shorter... more detail if she asks.

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I just came from the temple... I can say that there have been very important changes to the endowment. I can't go into any detail because at the very beginning of the endowment we were admonished not to discuss the ordinance with anyone outside the Temple. I can say that the changes shortened the endowment by about 25 minutes. I came away feeling that the Lord, in his infinite wisdom has revealed to his prophet that these changes are needed in the modern world we live in.

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1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

Well I for one am disappointed. I was really looking forward to them adding back in the Adam- God stuff.

😎

I’d honestly be curious at the reaction if they did put the Lecture at the Veil back into the presentation. I seriously don’t think they would considering they seem to be “shortening” it but I would just love to see the reaction.

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2 minutes ago, Jerry Ray said:

I just came from the temple... I can say that there have been very important changes to the endowment. I can't go into any detail because at the very beginning of the endowment we were admonished not to discuss the ordinance with anyone outside the Temple. I can say that the changes shortened the endowment by about 25 minutes. I came away feeling that the Lord, in his infinite wisdom has revealed to his prophet that these changes are needed in the modern world we live in.

Out of curiosity, was the actual language of "admonish" was used or was it a "request" or an "invitation"?

Admonish is a very strong word.

Quote
ad·mon·ish
VERB
admonished (past tense) · admonished (past participle)
  1. warn or reprimand someone firmly.
    "she admonished me for appearing at breakfast unshaven" ·
    "“You mustn't say that, Shiona,” Ruth admonished her"
    synonyms:
    reprimand · rebuke · scold · reprove · upbraid · chastise · chide · censure · castigate · lambaste · berate · reproach · lecture · criticize · take to task · pull up · ·
    read the Riot Act to · give a piece of one's mind to · haul over the coals · tell off · give someone a telling-off · dress down · give someone a dressing-down · bawl out · pitch into · lay into · lace into · blow up · give someone an earful · give someone a roasting · give someone a rocket · give someone a rollicking · rap over the knuckles · slap someone's wrist · send someone away with a flea in their ear · let someone have it · give someone hell · tick off · have a go at · carpet · tear someone off a strip · monster · give someone a mouthful · give someone what for · give someone some stick · give someone a wigging · chew out · ream out · trim · rate · give someone a rating · reprehend · objurgate
    antonyms:

If it was used, perhaps it was more of the  "advise or urge" definition, but the word definitely carries a more negative connotation. IF it was used, it seems an interesting yet intentional choice of words.

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Posted (edited)

I just thought of something else. F/T is going to be awesome ... and weird ... this Sunday. People crying and testifying about something that is really a huge deal (on par with the 1978 revelation), but also something they can't discuss with any detail. Kids and teenagers confused out the wazzoo. No one has any certainty of where the line is. 

Big props to you all you bishopric members out there who have to protect the podium.  And to missionaries who bring investigators to church and try to answer their questions when you haven't been through the new ceremony and likely know nothing about the changes.

Edited by Buckeye
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2 hours ago, Duncan said:

What I would like to know is where were all these whistleblowers?! Nobody told Bill Reel, Dehlin or Mormon leaks or any other flubb dubbery? people claim to have all this inside inside information but they seemed to have missed this doozie?

I believe Bill had predicted some temple changes before the last GC.  Maybe whatever he heard was just delayed a couple months.  

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1 minute ago, hope_for_things said:

I believe Bill had predicted some temple changes before the last GC.  Maybe whatever he heard was just delayed a couple months.  

Yeah, he predicated a shorting of the ceremony. Other predictions included no more garments outside the temple and the SL temple shut down for renovations. Those are not currently on the table but, after today's news, who the heck knows anymore. 

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28 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Out of curiosity, was the actual language of "admonish" was used or was it a "request" or an "invitation"?

Admonish is a very strong word.

If it was used, perhaps it was more of the  "advise or urge" definition, but the word definitely carries a more negative connotation. IF it was used, it seems an interesting yet intentional choice of words.

It was the "tone" of the direction not to discuss... I can't really explain it, but to me it felt very firm... like they don't want us to discuss the changes, but want people to experience it for themselves.

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I can't edit because I don't have enough posts.... the word, admonish is mine.. it was not used in the message. I used the word because that's what it felt like to me.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Buckeye said:

This is pure speculation, but perhaps the new video is merely a placeholder so that the substantive changes can be made now, but that new dramatizations will eventually be made.

My speculation: a great many Latter-day Saints have only experienced the endowment as something clearly made by and for English speakers and then dubbed over for them. This approach could eliminate that inequity and resembles the one taken in the latest temple training videos.

ETA: Elder Bednar did tell us that the Church had to get better at not being a 'translation' out of (American) English/culture for all Saints around the globe. And I fully expect the new hymnbook to reflect this endeavour as well.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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1 minute ago, Jerry Ray said:

I can't edit because I don't have enough posts.... the word, admonish is mine.. it was not used in the message. I used the word because that's what it felt like to me.

thanks. That makes me feel a little better

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I believe Bill had predicted some temple changes before the last GC.  Maybe whatever he heard was just delayed a couple months.  

do you have a reference where he said that? The only one he said that maybe kind of true is the 1 hour Temple session, assuming these new changes in the session are on hour- Other than that he's flat out wrong-i.e. "No more garments required except in the temple. Bill says this almost happened before. Church is hemorrhaging millennials, who don’t wear their g’s much anyway. They need to retain more of them. Scary (for TSCC) low retention numbers for the youth. Problem is if it’s optional, those who “choose” to keep wearing them gain a “more faithful than thou” status in Mormon culture." The Church is losing young  members because they don't or won't wear garments?????  he also got wrong "no more 1 year waiting period to go through the temple after joining church. Another burden for some (though relatively few)." 

edit to add-I have a friend in Provo right who heard in some areas of the world the Church is considering short endowment sessions in stake centres, who knows, sounds kind of out there TBH

Edited by Duncan

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