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HappyJackWagon

Rumors of Changes to Temple Worship

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I hadn’t heard any of these rumors, but will be interesting to see what changes are made (if any).

I’m not sure what to expect - changes have happened in the past to these supposedly revealed ordinances, so they will be changed again.

I’d like to see more emphasis on temple teaching of what the celestial room is. There, we have stepped through the veil to commune with God!  What a beautiful time to meditate, pray, and connect with our Father in Heaven. But, most of the temple teachings address the covenants, signs, and tokens that are important as we approach God, but are immaterial once we are in His presence.

Put differently, I’d like to learn more about the destination, rather than focus on the journey.  That would motivate me (and others?) to take temple worship more seriously than any changes to speed up the path to the veil.

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26 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I think this might be a local problem, the Temple here they practically beg you to stay, they just don't have enough people. I wonder about the shortening of the endowment if they just made a bunch of new movies, but I suppose anything is possible!. I wouldn't mind more airflow in the Temple, sometimes it's like a furnace room in there😓😓😓 I also wouldn't mind being able to wear short sleeves in the endowment room, if you can in the Baptistry why not in the endowment rooms?

Yeah, I was wondering about the new films as well. It seems unlikely to me (but what do I know) that they would totally get rid of those. I wonder, for example, if they may have different versions of the endowment. A longer one for those who like it and/or for those going through for the first time. Then, giving people the option of doing a quicker version for people doing work for the dead. (Do the deceased need me to re-watch a film- or simply accept covenants on their behalf?) I can think of a plausible way in which all covenants could be explained and accepted before going right to the veil. Like SouthernMO I think it would be super interesting to learn more about the celestial kingdom as that is the desired end-destination.

I think the long sleeve requirement is a holdover from a time when garments were long sleeved and so obviously they needed to be covered. I think that could easily be changed.

Edited by HappyJackWagon
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1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

1- Would you welcome changes to the length of time it takes to perform temple ordinances? (I call these efficiency changes)

Personally, I'm fine one way or the other.  I do know that there are some people who feel the endowment session is too long.  I really don't know if shortening it would actually get them to the temple any more than they go now as a person could presently perform initiatories or sealings, but these shorter options don't seem to get them there.

I don't really see the backlog as being a problem.  I feel that time may not be so much of an issue once we leave this mortal realm.

The creation account in the endowment is the only part, to me, that feels too long or redundant.

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53 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

a quicker version for people doing work for the dead. (Do the deceased need me to re-watch a film- or simply accept covenants on their behalf?)

I've always felt that this was more for my benefit that for the person I'm doing work for. 

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9 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I've always felt that this was more for my benefit that for the person I'm doing work for. 

Well... I'm sure you get benefit but it's essential for the deceased, is it not?

11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Personally, I'm fine one way or the other.  I do know that there are some people who feel the endowment session is too long.  I really don't know if shortening it would actually get them to the temple any more than they go now as a person could presently perform initiatories or sealings, but these shorter options don't seem to get them there.

I don't really see the backlog as being a problem.  I feel that time may not be so much of an issue once we leave this mortal realm.

The creation account in the endowment is the only part, to me, that feels too long or redundant.

Of course even if it didn't get more people to the temple it would make more efficient use of the people who are there. If it was shorter, a person could possibly go through multiple times during the time it would usually take them to do 1 session. That seems like a good thing.

OR...they could make it more of a start-to-finish kind of event (perhaps excluding baptism/confirmation). If shorter, a person could quite easily do the intiatory, endowment, sealing during the time it might take them to do 1 endowment now.

I am curious about the backlog issue. I don't know if it's really a thing or not but it's hard to imagine there aren't MANY, MANY more people who have been baptized and just waiting for the endowment.

For those who have already gone through the temple, I could see using a summary of the film in place of the film which would cut down on time.

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2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

1- Would you welcome changes to the length of time it takes to perform temple ordinances? (I call these efficiency changes)

3- Are there other changes (besides efficiency) that you might expect to see?

1.  I would welcome changes to the length.  But more important to me would be changes to the wording and theology to make it more egalitarian for women specifically. 

3.  Yes, I would like to see more emphasis on going to the temple to worship and pray and not having to perform ordinances specifically to do this.  Make it possible for people to go to the celestial room without having to dress in their temple robes specifically, so people can attend and pray and worship without that extra step being necessary. 

And lastly, I think everyone should be able to attend a temple sealing event, members and non-members alike.  This would be a huge win for the church and for families, and I continue to think it would also lead to new converts.  Win/win/win all around. 

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48 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Well... I'm sure you get benefit but it's essential for the deceased, is it not?

The ordinance is being performed for the deceased, but my feeling has been that the instruction is for the benefit of the person who is physically there. They may sometimes, but I'm not convinced that a person on the other side is always aware/present/cognizant (whatever word you feel fits best) that a temple ordinance is being performed for them.  I would think that this would be especially true of those who, at that moment, were not worthy of being in the temple.

I also feel that a person on the other side should be receiving sufficient instruction there that they would not need to "see" what was happening in the temple on their behalf.

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16 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Make it possible for people to go to the celestial room without having to dress in their temple robes specifically, so people can attend and pray and worship without that extra step being necessary. 

People can do this in their own homes and at church on Sunday.  No need for a change.

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The is some standardization of the way temple worker assignments are done that start in the new year.  That may explain the mandatory meetings.  Historically those assignments have been done using different scheduling software, even within the same temple.  

We’re now being asked to all use a single scheduling software system.

Btw, I’ve always viewed the Celestial Kingdom in the context of the work done by those who gain that kingdom, rather than as a physical location.  And since that work is God’s work, we can better understand it by studying and pondering what God does...once that is done it’s easier to understand why those who don’t gain that kingdom will be perfectly satisfied with that result.

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56 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

OR...they could make it more of a start-to-finish kind of event (perhaps excluding baptism/confirmation). If shorter, a person could quite easily do the intiatory, endowment, sealing during the time it might take them to do 1 endowment now.

I do like this.  My feeling is that the ordinances run together to make one complete story.  Breaking it up as we do makes it difficult to see that.

 

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1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

For those who have already gone through the temple, I could see using a summary of the film in place of the film which would cut down on time.

The repetition of the entire endowment seems to be beneficial.  I've learned a lot from it.

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24 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

And lastly, I think everyone should be able to attend a temple sealing event, members and non-members alike.  This would be a huge win for the church and for families, and I continue to think it would also lead to new converts.  Win/win/win all around. 

HOLINESS TO THE LORD is written on the outside of every temple.  The worthiness of all who enter the temple to be in His house is paramount.  Your desires would seem to run contrary to the idea that the temple is a sacred space.  Allowing those who are not repentant to enter nullifies this. 

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45 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

And lastly, I think everyone should be able to attend a temple sealing event, members and non-members alike.  This would be a huge win for the church and for families, and I continue to think it would also lead to new converts.  Win/win/win all around. 

Yep,  same sex marriages would be a big hit. We know we are winning when the Utah LightHouse Ministry  is having a "going out of business" sale.

Edited by cdowis

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10 minutes ago, cdowis said:

Yep,  same sex marriages would be a big hit.  Lots of changes that would make us more like the other churches ==   more converts, less negative press, no more antiMormon videos,. 

We know we are winning when the antiMormon ministries are going out of business.

 

Who said anything about SSM?

Quote

KSFisher- HOLINESS TO THE LORD is written on the outside of every temple.  The worthiness of all who enter the temple to be in His house is paramount.  Your desires would seem to run contrary to the idea that the temple is a sacred space.  Allowing those who are not repentant to enter nullifies this. 

An obvious alternative to allowing the rabble into a wedding/temple sealing would be to have the wedding and sealing separate. Get married outside the temple and sealed inside. This is done in many countries so it would not be a difficult change or even a novel one.

 

Edited by HappyJackWagon
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19 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

People can do this in their own homes and at church on Sunday.  No need for a change.

I like the idea of going to the temple to worship, without the explicit tie of ordinances.  I'm not currently attending the temple, but in times past I would attend for the specific purpose of wanting to pray and get answers to prayers.  I always participated in an ordinance, but honestly my focus was on my personal needs and not on the actual ordinance.  I just think this would be a nice thing for people to be able to do, and honestly I can't think of any substantive objections.  

Any reason why you would be opposed to allowing this change?  

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11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

HOLINESS TO THE LORD is written on the outside of every temple.  The worthiness of all who enter the temple to be in His house is paramount.  Your desires would seem to run contrary to the idea that the temple is a sacred space.  Allowing those who are not repentant to enter nullifies this. 

It would really only require a shift of thinking.  I personally don't think that it would hurt the holiness factor in any way.  Current temple recommend holders that are unrepentant attend the temple every day already.  

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Just now, hope_for_things said:

Any reason why you would be opposed to allowing this change?  

I really don't see a need.  If you're just talking about praying this can be done in our homes. 

If your talking about worship this is one of the purposes of sacrament meeting each week.

 

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14 minutes ago, cdowis said:

Yep,  same sex marriages would be a big hit.  Lots of changes that would make us more like the other churches ==   more converts, less negative press, no more antiMormon videos,. 

We know we are winning when the antiMormon ministries are going out of business.

 

I wasn't talking specifically about same sex marriages at all, I was only talking about who could attend the temple sealings and opening that up to letting non-members and people without a recommend to attend.  

However, I would be in favor of same sex marriages as well, but there will have to me a lot of progress on that topic for this to happen.  

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1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

I really don't see a need.  If you're just talking about praying this can be done in our homes. 

If your talking about worship this is one of the purposes of sacrament meeting each week.

 

So it doesn't sound like you are opposed to the idea, just that you wouldn't do this personally.  Other people I know attend the temple for the specific purpose of wanting to get answers to prayers.  I've done on multiple occasions and I have many family and friends who do this as well.  I just think that it would be an easy accommodation to let people into the celestial room without having to dress in the ordinance robes.  

I also like the idea of encouraging temple worship as a practice that isn't directly connected to ordinance work.  

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7 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

It would really only require a shift of thinking.  I personally don't think that it would hurt the holiness factor in any way.  Current temple recommend holders that are unrepentant attend the temple every day already.  

So no standard for entering the Lord's house is what you'd like to see.

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2 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I just think that it would be an easy accommodation to let people into the celestial room without having to dress in the ordinance robes. 

Which kind of changes it from the celestial room to something else.  Would there be a place for those who were dressed in temple robes to go? 

 

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Just now, ksfisher said:

So no standard for entering the Lord's house is what you'd like to see.

I wouldn't say no standard, just a different standard for this specific ordinance.  Make it about the families and keeping families together.  We are a family focused church, lets quit dividing families through our current practice.  It would really be a great thing.  

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