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Bill "Papa" Lee

When all that you have to give, is no longer wanted.

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There have been so many changes, many that effect (or is it affect) the entire Church, and in my case (on the local level). These changes have been in the Stake, and the it's Wards. I have lived in the same home, (my final home) for almost five years, and in five Wards. The Ward that was abolished the last recent change, has been reinstated. Sadly we have only four young men the entire Young Men's program, and only eight in the entire Young Women's program, and two are my granddaughters? The  Prmary has 23 currently, and 5 or are my grandchildren,  The Elder's Quorm President who had an out going member of the Bishopic, (knowing he was moving within weeks) put a (for lack of a better term) "gage order" on me.

I have so many health problems, I cannot be a ministering teacher, as I seldom drive, (we'll never really) and if I did I am unable to assist in any activities that require physical abilities. My former Elder's Quorum, did not assign me anyone, nor assigned anyone to me. In one meeting, (the first where all sit in a circle, and discuss lessons, and other issues) someone asked who his visiting, or ministering individual was. He was trying to tell how find out, but then went on to tell him, to whom he was assigned, and who was assigned,  to him) When I asked, and told him I did not have the Church App, on my phone. He told me, (before the entire Quorm) "Brother Lee, I do not have time to address your ignorance of the Church App, So he said, see the Ward Clerk, I did. The Ward clerk, laughed when he found out that I did not have the App on my phone. As he was trying to show me, he also said, "I have others things to do. 

So, when the Ward was reinstated, I told my wife, maybe I will be able to teach again, something I can do, despite my limits. Her reply was, "I doubt it, President XXXXX, is now in the new Bishopric".  What do you do, when what you have (or can) to give, is no longer wanted, or you are not allowed to do so? So, (again) what is to be done, when someone is no longer wanted? Also, all of my long time friends, are in another Ward, whom I miss so much. 

Need advice; please! 

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😥 I would go to the ward with friends. Exceptions to rules are allowed. They changed my moms ward when she was 80 and she lost her friends. She has dementia and the change at her age was very detrimental. Sounds like a tough ward for the youth. Are there lots of youth in the neighboring wards? Does the Stake effectively build bonds across wards? 

Ward changes are necessary at times but traumatic. I’m so sorry your ward has been unkind.

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Saddened to hear about members treating other members as you have been treated!

Some ideas:

Temple work. Have you thought of being a temple worker? My mom had that calling and truly enjoyed it. She had to do 2 shifts a month and would arrange those so she went with other members of the ward.

She also mentioned that there were patrons who attended very regularly.

Young men will need help if there are only 4 of them. You might want to let them know that you are available to bless and pass. Many years ago, as a deacons quorum president with few deacons, I had a hard time and usually scrambled right before the meeting.

Primary. My ward has been hurting for men to be teachers. It's good for the older boys to see a man as a teacher. Even if you aren't called as a teacher, you could let the presidents and teachers know that you are willing to serve as a sub.

Those are some thoughts. Not sure how I would navigate dealing with the former president.

We're it me, I might attend a different ward once a month or so. I think there is a value in attending church where you are happy and if that is where your friends are, so be it.

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Definitely attend the other ward.  I might ask for a record transfer as well. Sometimes there are important reasons for these things to be allowed.

 

 

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I think you talk to the Bishop and tell him how you feel.  It is reasonable to be able to participate in Church.  

As far as the LDS Tools app.  If you asked someone to do something during the church block, it can hard for the clerks or bishopric to respond.  The three hours can be crazy with the requests, interviews, problems, teaching emergencies, etc. 

These types of situations always go better when you have a good attitude.  

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I am sorry you are going through this.  Sometimes it is hard to tell what is in peoples hearts and heads.  One thing that I do know is that a person should be able to worship in an environment where they feel supported.  If that is not the case in your ward, then maybe check out a different ward.  My wife and I finally had to do this.  Even though the SP was not happy we were attending a different ward, it made all  the difference to us.   Also, one good thing about being older, is Bishops and SPs tend to cut you more slack when it comes to what ward you attend.

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4 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

There have been so many changes, many that effect (or is it affect) the entire Church, and in my case (on the local level). These changes have been in the Stake, and the it's Wards. I have lived in the same home, (my final home) for almost five years, and in five Wards. The Ward that was abolished the last recent change, has been reinstated. Sadly we have only four young men the entire Young Men's program, and only eight in the entire Young Women's program, and two are my granddaughters? The  Prmary has 23 currently, and 5 or are my grandchildren,  The Elder's Quorm President who had an out going member of the Bishopic, (knowing he was moving within weeks) put a (for lack of a better term) "gage order" on me.

I have so many health problems, I cannot be a ministering teacher, as I seldom drive, (we'll never really) and if I did I am unable to assist in any activities that require physical abilities. My former Elder's Quorum, did not assign me anyone, nor assigned anyone to me. In one meeting, (the first where all sit in a circle, and discuss lessons, and other issues) someone asked who his visiting, or ministering individual was. He was trying to tell how find out, but then went on to tell him, to whom he was assigned, and who was assigned,  to him) When I asked, and told him I did not have the Church App, on my phone. He told me, (before the entire Quorm) "Brother Lee, I do not have time to address your ignorance of the Church App, So he said, see the Ward Clerk, I did. The Ward clerk, laughed when he found out that I did not have the App on my phone. As he was trying to show me, he also said, "I have others things to do. 

So, when the Ward was reinstated, I told my wife, maybe I will be able to teach again, something I can do, despite my limits. Her reply was, "I doubt it, President XXXXX, is now in the new Bishopric".  What do you do, when what you have (or can) to give, is no longer wanted, or you are not allowed to do so? So, (again) what is to be done, when someone is no longer wanted? Also, all of my long time friends, are in another Ward, whom I miss so much. 

Need advice; please! 

I say, change wards stat! There are situations that I've seen where the bishop is fine with someone attending another ward. 

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I too suggest attending the other ward where you have more friends and feel more welcome.

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13 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

There have been so many changes, many that effect (or is it affect) the entire Church, and in my case (on the local level). These changes have been in the Stake, and the it's Wards. I have lived in the same home, (my final home) for almost five years, and in five Wards. The Ward that was abolished the last recent change, has been reinstated. Sadly we have only four young men the entire Young Men's program, and only eight in the entire Young Women's program, and two are my granddaughters? The  Prmary has 23 currently, and 5 or are my grandchildren,  The Elder's Quorm President who had an out going member of the Bishopic, (knowing he was moving within weeks) put a (for lack of a better term) "gage order" on me.

I have so many health problems, I cannot be a ministering teacher, as I seldom drive, (we'll never really) and if I did I am unable to assist in any activities that require physical abilities. My former Elder's Quorum, did not assign me anyone, nor assigned anyone to me. In one meeting, (the first where all sit in a circle, and discuss lessons, and other issues) someone asked who his visiting, or ministering individual was. He was trying to tell how find out, but then went on to tell him, to whom he was assigned, and who was assigned,  to him) When I asked, and told him I did not have the Church App, on my phone. He told me, (before the entire Quorm) "Brother Lee, I do not have time to address your ignorance of the Church App, So he said, see the Ward Clerk, I did. The Ward clerk, laughed when he found out that I did not have the App on my phone. As he was trying to show me, he also said, "I have others things to do. 

So, when the Ward was reinstated, I told my wife, maybe I will be able to teach again, something I can do, despite my limits. Her reply was, "I doubt it, President XXXXX, is now in the new Bishopric".  What do you do, when what you have (or can) to give, is no longer wanted, or you are not allowed to do so? So, (again) what is to be done, when someone is no longer wanted? Also, all of my long time friends, are in another Ward, whom I miss so much. 

Need advice; please! 

Sorry to hear it.

Sadly, though situations vary, many people feel something similar. For me, one of my "aha" moments came when I realized my value as a person wasn't derived from my perceived value to the church. Hang in there.

Merry Christmas!

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I think someone needs to talk to the SP...like yesterday.  This arrogance is uncalled for and I know where Papa is coming from in my own real world.  I am not up to date on all apps and stuff that everyone else has and I had a niece last week just make fun of my tiny cell with basics.  Sometimes I think people even intentionally just think us older folks are invisible..I am so tired of it.  No one says hello anymore...but they will text it!

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15 hours ago, readstoomuch said:

I think you talk to the Bishop and tell him how you feel.  It is reasonable to be able to participate in Church.  

As far as the LDS Tools app.  If you asked someone to do something during the church block, it can hard for the clerks or bishopric to respond.  The three hours can be crazy with the requests, interviews, problems, teaching emergencies, etc. 

These types of situations always go better when you have a good attitude.  

I asked because he told one brother, but would not tell me. 

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4 hours ago, rpn said:

There are plenty of ways to serve without official sanction or request.   I'd wager that most of the good in the world is done in that category.    When I don't have assignments, I just do things on my own.   There are always people you can read to, or sing with over the phone each week, and someone alone whom you can deliver a plate of dinner in your neighbhorhood, and multiple people to who you can text or email something uplifting each day (and maybe I'd do that to these persons who haven't been kind).

Also, ask the Priests leadership if they know someone who can come over and help you get the app you are missing and teach you how to use it.   Bet there are teens in your community who would have time to do that.

With a wife like mine, and the greatest cook on earth, we take food to others all the time. As for singing with others, I do not wish to cause harm! :D

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4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Sorry to hear it.

Sadly, though situations vary, many people feel something similar. For me, one of my "aha" moments came when I realized my value as a person wasn't derived from my perceived value to the church. Hang in there.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you my brother, may it be a wonderful day for you and all you love. 

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Don't feel bad about the app. I don't have it either, nor will I ever have it - I don't do apps. 

They can still print the lists on the computer. I have mine.

Your Ward sound like the one that almost made me go  inactive 15 years ago. Instead we moved, we were going from an apartment to a house and we only had one demand - It could not be within that Ward's boundaries.

Edited by mnn727

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44 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

Don't feel bad about the app. I don't have it either, nor will I ever have it - I don't do apps. 

They can still print the lists on the computer. I have mine.

Your Ward sound like the one that almost made me go  inactive 15 years ago. Instead we moved, we were going from an apartment to a house and we only had one demand - It could not be within that Ward's boundaries.

I can relate, I just want to be of some use, to someone. 

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The hardest sacrifice is the one willingly given but not yet required.  

Luckily, the Lord doesn't evaluate on the basis of usefulness but a broken heart and contrite spirit.  Just keep it all in proper perspective.

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On 12/23/2018 at 7:04 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

There have been so many changes, many that effect (or is it affect) the entire Church, and in my case (on the local level). These changes have been in the Stake, and the it's Wards. I have lived in the same home, (my final home) for almost five years, and in five Wards. The Ward that was abolished the last recent change, has been reinstated. Sadly we have only four young men the entire Young Men's program, and only eight in the entire Young Women's program, and two are my granddaughters? The  Prmary has 23 currently, and 5 or are my grandchildren,  The Elder's Quorm President who had an out going member of the Bishopic, (knowing he was moving within weeks) put a (for lack of a better term) "gage order" on me.

I have so many health problems, I cannot be a ministering teacher, as I seldom drive, (we'll never really) and if I did I am unable to assist in any activities that require physical abilities. My former Elder's Quorum, did not assign me anyone, nor assigned anyone to me. In one meeting, (the first where all sit in a circle, and discuss lessons, and other issues) someone asked who his visiting, or ministering individual was. He was trying to tell how find out, but then went on to tell him, to whom he was assigned, and who was assigned,  to him) When I asked, and told him I did not have the Church App, on my phone. He told me, (before the entire Quorm) "Brother Lee, I do not have time to address your ignorance of the Church App, So he said, see the Ward Clerk, I did. The Ward clerk, laughed when he found out that I did not have the App on my phone. As he was trying to show me, he also said, "I have others things to do. 

So, when the Ward was reinstated, I told my wife, maybe I will be able to teach again, something I can do, despite my limits. Her reply was, "I doubt it, President XXXXX, is now in the new Bishopric".  What do you do, when what you have (or can) to give, is no longer wanted, or you are not allowed to do so? So, (again) what is to be done, when someone is no longer wanted? Also, all of my long time friends, are in another Ward, whom I miss so much. 

Need advice; please! 

Mary and Martha - Martha was the one with a "job" to do... The most meaningful, the real service - it is not assigned.  We can all be Christians without assignments.  I have no calling, and do volunteer work - work is better when it is not assigned.

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2 hours ago, changed said:

Mary and Martha - Martha was the one with a "job" to do... The most meaningful, the real service - it is not assigned.  We can all be Christians without assignments.  I have no calling, and do volunteer work - work is better when it is not assigned.

I do as much as I can, and I am helping my neighbor wire his home, well telling him how, and doing what I can physically (as much as my disabilities allow) so he does not mess it up, and doing it all for free, including helping pay for the materials. But, what I want to do, is to be of service in Church but I am unwanted by someone who can keep me from every calling. As out Elder's Quorum President, he was very insecure, and cone to find out, I was not the only High Priest he did not want to teach. Now he is in the Bishopric, so the deck is staked against me, it would seem no one wants me for anything. The other High Priests he tried to silence, are now all in a different Ward. 

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5 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I do as much as I can, and I am helping my neighbor wire his home, well telling him how, and doing what I can physically (as much as my disabilities allow) so he does not mess it up, and doing it all for free, including helping pay for the materials. But, what I want to do, is to be of service in Church but I am unwanted by someone who can keep me from every calling. As out Elder's Quorum President, he was very insecure, and cone to find out, I was not the only High Priest he did not want to teach. Now he is in the Bishopric, so the deck is staked against me, it would seem no one wants me for anything. The other High Priests he tried to silence, are now all in a different Ward. 

 

Helping your neighbor sounds great.  I'm not sure of all your religious convictions, but deep down, is your goal to serve God? or to serve and look good in the church?  Is your goal to have a fancy title?  Or is doing family history research and indexing - counseling people in need online - are the anonymous jobs good enough for you?  What is your real goal?  There are plenty of ways to serve without a calling...  I'll probably never have a calling as my beliefs have changed, that doesn't mean I don't serve, or can't be part of my family's community.

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1 hour ago, changed said:

 

Helping your neighbor sounds great.  I'm not sure of all your religious convictions, but deep down, is your goal to serve God? or to serve and look good in the church?  Is your goal to have a fancy title?  Or is doing family history research and indexing - counseling people in need online - are the anonymous jobs good enough for you?  What is your real goal?  There are plenty of ways to serve without a calling...  I'll probably never have a calling as my beliefs have changed, that doesn't mean I don't serve, or can't be part of my family's community.

Wow, perfect answer vs. my answer which was to hightail it out of Papa's ward. I like what you've said here, and will try it in my own life, thanks!

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9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Wow, perfect answer vs. my answer which was to hightail it out of Papa's ward. I like what you've said here, and will try it in my own life, thanks!

 

There is good and bad in everyone - I stay because of my family and will make the best of it.  The best conversations and friendships I've had did not come from callings - callings and assignments are for those who are unable to act on their own, who have to be commanded in all things :) there Is a higher law, a better way of doing things :) Be the change you want to see and all of that!

Edited by changed
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11 hours ago, changed said:

 

Helping your neighbor sounds great.  I'm not sure of all your religious convictions, but deep down, is your goal to serve God? or to serve and look good in the church?  Is your goal to have a fancy title?  Or is doing family history research and indexing - counseling people in need online - are the anonymous jobs good enough for you?  What is your real goal?  There are plenty of ways to serve without a calling...  I'll probably never have a calling as my beliefs have changed, that doesn't mean I don't serve, or can't be part of my family's community.

Wow, I would think my nearly 12 years here, would make clear my "religious convictions", very clear, but it would appear not for you.  Also, no I seek no "fancy title", do we even have "fancy titles"?  Whatever that is, or means.  Because it would seem you have completely missed the mark,  please say no more, oh, and "just wow". 

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2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Wow, I would think my nearly 12 years here, would make clear my "religious convictions", very clear, but it would appear not for you.  Also, no I seek no "fancy title", do we even have "fancy titles"?  Whatever that is, or means.  Because it would seem you have completely missed the mark,  please say no more, oh, and "just wow". 

I doubt any offence or judgement was meant here, perhaps you're being a bit more sensitive than you need to.

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On 12/23/2018 at 7:04 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

There have been so many changes, many that effect (or is it affect) the entire Church, and in my case (on the local level). These changes have been in the Stake, and the it's Wards. I have lived in the same home, (my final home) for almost five years, and in five Wards. The Ward that was abolished the last recent change, has been reinstated. Sadly we have only four young men the entire Young Men's program, and only eight in the entire Young Women's program, and two are my granddaughters? The  Prmary has 23 currently, and 5 or are my grandchildren,  The Elder's Quorm President who had an out going member of the Bishopic, (knowing he was moving within weeks) put a (for lack of a better term) "gage order" on me.

I have so many health problems, I cannot be a ministering teacher, as I seldom drive, (we'll never really) and if I did I am unable to assist in any activities that require physical abilities. My former Elder's Quorum, did not assign me anyone, nor assigned anyone to me. In one meeting, (the first where all sit in a circle, and discuss lessons, and other issues) someone asked who his visiting, or ministering individual was. He was trying to tell how find out, but then went on to tell him, to whom he was assigned, and who was assigned,  to him) When I asked, and told him I did not have the Church App, on my phone. He told me, (before the entire Quorm) "Brother Lee, I do not have time to address your ignorance of the Church App, So he said, see the Ward Clerk, I did. The Ward clerk, laughed when he found out that I did not have the App on my phone. As he was trying to show me, he also said, "I have others things to do. 

So, when the Ward was reinstated, I told my wife, maybe I will be able to teach again, something I can do, despite my limits. Her reply was, "I doubt it, President XXXXX, is now in the new Bishopric".  What do you do, when what you have (or can) to give, is no longer wanted, or you are not allowed to do so? So, (again) what is to be done, when someone is no longer wanted? Also, all of my long time friends, are in another Ward, whom I miss so much. 

Need advice; please! 

That bothers me, kids see that behavior and start thinking that it's ok to treat their elders like that.  Someone like you who has done nothing but serve should be treasured. At the very least you can be an example to the younger missionaries on how to live a good life.  I see this a lot nowadays, it sickens me the lack of respect people have towards the disabled and those who are suffering from health problems.  Where's the compassion?  The decency?  The Christ like behavior?  It's because of behavior like that people either leave a religion or in the case of those who are seeking do a 180 and swear off religion outright.  With the internet and sites like reddit stuff like this spreads fast and people with kids who grew up unchurched think long and hard before committing to a religion that treats those who have fallen on hard times this way.  Also all this over an app?  Wow....
I'm not the biggest fan of smart phone technology, half the time I want to skip the thing across a lake and see how far it will go. 

Will also add, people like that should be taken to your average nursing home that accepts medicaid, full of people who've been abandoned by their families.  Life has a funny way of revisiting misdeeds like this, know a few residents who constantly go on about how they want to die/wish they had blown their brains out.  Really wish people would wake up and start treating each other better, for many of us that's the future that awaits.

Edited by poptart
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