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tulip

Joseph Smith on Mormonism

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From the Saints book

After the Lord spoke to him in the dark, miserable dungeon, Joseph no longer feared that God had forsaken him and the church. In letters to Edward Partridge and the Saints, he testified boldly of the latter-day work. “Hell may pour forth its rage like the burning lava of Mount Vesuvius,” he declared, “yet shall Mormonism stand.” He was sure of this.

“Truth is Mormonism,” he exclaimed. “God is the author of it. He is our shield. It is by Him we received our birth. It was by His voice that we were called to a dispensation of His gospel in the beginning of the fullness of times.”

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Welp, that's it. Pack it in folks. Time to sell the temples and shut down the chapels. This inept attempt at a burn has defeated us. Let us slink home in abject shame and never speak of our faith again.

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2 hours ago, tulip said:

in the beginning of the fullness of times.”

interesting

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Welp, that's it. Pack it in folks. Time to sell the temples and shut down the chapels. This inept attempt at a burn has defeated us. Let us slink home in abject shame and never speak of our faith again.

I had thought that tulip had meant his quotation to be taken sincerely as a defense of the faith.  Am I wrong again, as so often in the past?  The Nehor keeps me on the straight and narrow path . . .

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25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I had thought that tulip had meant his quotation to be taken sincerely as a defense of the faith.  Am I wrong again, as so often in the past?  The Nehor keeps me on the straight and narrow path . . .

Yeah, I don't get it.

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Is the point of the original quotation to illustrate an alleged inconsistency between Joseph Smith's use of the word "Mormonism"  and President Nelson's condemnation of that word to refer to the Restored Church?

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47 minutes ago, Bane said:

Is the point of the original quotation to illustrate an alleged inconsistency between Joseph Smith's use of the word "Mormonism"  and President Nelson's condemnation of that word to refer to the Restored Church?

That was my impression. 

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I keep forgetting that this “M-Word” thing is serious.

Sorry if I offend anyone when I use it, but that might be the hardest commandment yet

Also, Tulip: There’s a sort of finesse to this. Hopefully, you figure it out, because I think you’re technically on my team—and let’s just say you’re not making anyone’s all-star team at this point. 

Edited by FunOnlineMan
Tulip, bro. Just… just…
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Don't members believe that the devil has won victories when people use the word Mormon to describe the people and religion started by Joseph?  I'm curious what the reasoning is for Joseph also using the term Mormon to describe the religion.  Wouldn't that mean the devil was good and tricking him/using him to get his victory for people using that term?   It seems silly to me to think like that, but there's little doubt that is what Nelson has taught in these latter days.  I wonder why members often don't seem to take it seriously, in one way, and yet very seriously in another.  

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3 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said:

I keep forgetting that this “M-Word” thing is serious.

Sorry if I offend anyone when I use it, but that might be the hardest commandment yet

Also, Tulip: There’s a sort of finesse to this. Hopefully, you figure it out, because I think you’re technically on my team—and let’s just say you’re not making anyone’s all-star team at this point. 

There is a reason I disagree with and like many critics and directly insult others. ;) 

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11 hours ago, tulip said:

From the Saints book

After the Lord spoke to him in the dark, miserable dungeon, Joseph no longer feared that God had forsaken him and the church. In letters to Edward Partridge and the Saints, he testified boldly of the latter-day work. “Hell may pour forth its rage like the burning lava of Mount Vesuvius,” he declared, “yet shall Mormonism stand.” He was sure of this.

“Truth is Mormonism,” he exclaimed. “God is the author of it. He is our shield. It is by Him we received our birth. It was by His voice that we were called to a dispensation of His gospel in the beginning of the fullness of times.”

And? 

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1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Wouldn't that mean the devil was good and tricking him/using him to get his victory for people using that term?

Would it be that surprising if that is what it means?  The devil's hand is apparent in our history.  I wouldn't expect otherwise.  He is not going to simply bare his neck to his adversary in defeat. He is a fighter and he is good at what he does - so much so that he was able to persuade "a third part of the hosts of heaven" to turn away from the Father. So, this is peanuts compared to that victory. 

Having said that, I don't yet have a conviction of this whole "Mormon" thing yet, but I am giving President Nelson the benefit of the doubt until I do.

Edited by pogi
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55 minutes ago, pogi said:

Would it be that surprising if that is what it means?  The devil's hand is apparent in our history.  I wouldn't expect otherwise.  He is not going to simply bare his neck to his adversary in defeat. He is a fighter and he is good at what he does - so much so that he was able to persuade "a third part of the hosts of heaven" to turn away from the Father. So, this is peanuts compared to that victory. 

Having said that, I don't yet have a conviction of this whole "Mormon" thing yet, but I am giving President Nelson the benefit of the doubt until I do.

Ok.  I guess I remained perplexed a bit by the seriousness taken on this issue.  I think it'll fade away and Mormon will be used in various official capacities again, going forward.  

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9 hours ago, Bane said:

Is the point of the original quotation to illustrate an alleged inconsistency between Joseph Smith's use of the word "Mormonism"  and President Nelson's condemnation of that word to refer to the Restored Church?

Bingo!

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1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

I guess I remained perplexed a bit by the seriousness taken on this issue. 

I think it is a matter of interpretation of scripture.  President Nelson takes every word of the Lord in scripture very seriously...which isn't a bad thing.  This is from an old talk by him in 1990 on this issue:

Quote

 

“Thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” (D&C 115:4.)

Note carefully the language of the Lord. He did not say, “Thus shall my church be named.” He said, “Thus shall my church be called.” Years ago, its members were cautioned by the Brethren who wrote: “We feel that some may be misled by the too frequent use of the term ‘Mormon Church.’” (Member-Missionary Class—Instructor’s Guide, Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1982, p. 2.) Before any other name is considered to be a legitimate substitute, the thoughtful person might reverently consider the feelings of the Heavenly Parent who bestowed that name.

Surely every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord is precious. So each word in this name must be important—divinely designated for a reason. 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1990/04/thus-shall-my-church-be-called?lang=eng

 

I can understand the scriptural justification for his reasoning and seriousness taken on this issue. The Lord did say, thus shall my church be called...

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16 hours ago, tulip said:

From the Saints book

After the Lord spoke to him in the dark, miserable dungeon, Joseph no longer feared that God had forsaken him and the church. In letters to Edward Partridge and the Saints, he testified boldly of the latter-day work. “Hell may pour forth its rage like the burning lava of Mount Vesuvius,” he declared, “yet shall Mormonism stand.” He was sure of this.

“Truth is Mormonism,” he exclaimed. “God is the author of it. He is our shield. It is by Him we received our birth. It was by His voice that we were called to a dispensation of His gospel in the beginning of the fullness of times.”

Amen.

A prophetic admonition to remember whose we are is always a good thing.  There have been numerous such admonitions over the years by different prophets.   I appreciated the passion and urgency of President Nelson‘s latest admonition.  Remembering whose we are should be addressed with passion and urgency.   If our thoughts and actions  better demonstrated we understood whose we are, there might not be such an emphasis on avoiding charterizing ourselves and the Church as Mormon.

 Those who mock or belittle clearly missed the point and the principle.  Those who belong to Christ shouldn’t be offended or confused by an admonition  to claim Him and invoke His name.  

Edited by let’s roll
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5 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

And? 

That’s what I was wondering. What Joseph said was true. So what’s the issue?

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6 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Don't members believe that the devil has won victories when people use the word Mormon to describe the people and religion started by Joseph?  I'm curious what the reasoning is for Joseph also using the term Mormon to describe the religion.  Wouldn't that mean the devil was good and tricking him/using him to get his victory for people using that term?   It seems silly to me to think like that, but there's little doubt that is what Nelson has taught in these latter days.  I wonder why members often don't seem to take it seriously, in one way, and yet very seriously in another.  

 Joseph didn’t start a religion. Christ did

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It amazes me that there are any of those who covenant with God to take upon themselves the name of Christ gripe so much about using His name for the Church

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15 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

It amazes me that there are any of those who covenant with God to take upon themselves the name of Christ gripe so much about using His name for the Church

1465214242568

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I never respond to threads that don't make sense.

So this response doesn't exist. :)

Hey Tulip! Whassup?

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46 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

 Joseph didn’t start a religion. Christ did

Strike that. Reverse it.

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18 minutes ago, Gray said:

Strike that. Reverse it.

No. It was correct the first time

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Looking up the source of this quote led me to the original letter, which I then realized is the source document for D&C 121. Interestingly, there’s a tremendous amount of content between verses 6-7.

Joseph vents his frustrations futher, calls the wrath of God down on the Saints’ enemies, pleads for the Saviour’s coming. It isn’t until an act of service from a friend that his heart is sufficiently softened for the Lord to speak to him in verse 7. It’s a beatiful letter, and segueys nicely into the Lord’s comforting of Joseph. I like this excerpt (edits made by me, just formatting):

"We need not say to you that the flood gates of our hearts were hoisted, and our eyes were a fountain of tears. But those who have not been enclosed in the walls of a Prison without cause or provocation can have but little idea how sweet the voice of a friend is."

"One token of friendship from any source whatever, awakens and calls into action every sympathetic feeling. It brings up in an instant every thing that is passed. It seizes the present with a vivacity of lightning. It grasps after the future with the fierceness of a tiger. It retrogrades from one thing to another until finally all enmity, malice, hatred, past differences, misunderstandings, and mismanagements are slain victorious at the feet of hope."

"And when the heart is sufficiently contrite, then the voice of inspiration steals along and whispers, 'my Son peace be unto thy soul, thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment, and then if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high, thou shalt triumph over all thy foes, thy friends do stand by thee, and they shall hail thee again, with warm hearts and friendly hands thou art not yet as Job...'"

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