LGBTQ+ Question

[provoman]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Hopefully FunOnlineMan won't mind my posting this here, just thought it interesting that it was posted on LDSLiving! Sometimes I wonder if whomever is in charge of the articles being posted is a secretly questioning LDS. 

http://www.ldsliving.com/Studio-C-Member-Comes-Out-As-Gay-Shares-Touching-Message-for-LGBT-Youth/s/89990/?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=popular

Especially with this statement:

"Despite knowing that he would face this, Harkey eventually made the decision for a beautiful reason: to help LGBT youth in Utah. 

". . . did you know that Utah has the highest suicide rate amongst LGBT teens? Did you know there are soo many people in this community that are soo scared and unsupported that they feel the BEST alternative to living is death? So many people are living quiet lives afraid and unsure of themselves and I’m coming out for them. 

"I’m coming out so they know they’re not alone. I’m coming out in hopes that at least one LGBT teen feels like they have support. I’m coming out because I have a unique position in this community and no matter how much criticism comes my way it will be worth it if just one person avoids suicide or just feels better about themself."

And this message has been met with love and positivity for the most part as friends have commented on his post: 

"Thank you, Stacey. I have had several students come out to me. I have been honored to be a friend to them. You will have unique power to build love and acceptance. Blessings!"  

"So much love to you, man! As a fellow queer BYU grad it's so awesome to see others being authentically themselves out in the open—and especially in your position of influence. You are so courageous, and lives will be blessed because of it." 

But his message carried another sweet message—one that came from Harkey's experience as a member of the Church wrestling with his identity. 

"I’m not ashamed of who I am," Harkey shares. 

"A little while back I found myself at an ultimate low, praying and begging God for answers, pleading for direction and guidance. In that moment I felt so much peace and love. I instantly felt like this part of myself that I’ve grown to demonize is an integral part of who I am. This part of myself that I’ve spent my whole life fighting isn’t my enemy. This part of myself that I’ve shoved into a dark dungeon deserves light. It was the sweetest feeling and it taught me that God expects me to be who he made me to be and expects me to develop myself and magnify who I am.

"You are soo important! Believe me when I say that you are needed. This community needs you and the beautiful hues you bring to it. If you need/want to talk Please text me/call me/message me. No matter if you’re gay or straight come talk to me if you have any questions and it’ll stay between us."

"...did you know that Utah has the highest suicide rate amongst LGBT teens?"

Utah has a high rate of suicided for those 10 - 17 years of age. I am not sure there is adequate evidemce to show the highest in the Nation of  10 - 17 year olds in Utah that identify as lgbt; one reason for the lack of evidence is lack of reporting.

Edited December 26, 2018 by provoman

[california boy]

19 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Hopefully FunOnlineMan won't mind my posting this here, just thought it interesting that it was posted on LDSLiving! Sometimes I wonder if whomever is in charge of the articles being posted is a secretly questioning LDS. 

http://www.ldsliving.com/Studio-C-Member-Comes-Out-As-Gay-Shares-Touching-Message-for-LGBT-Youth/s/89990/?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=popular

Especially with this statement:

"Despite knowing that he would face this, Harkey eventually made the decision for a beautiful reason: to help LGBT youth in Utah. 

". . . did you know that Utah has the highest suicide rate amongst LGBT teens? Did you know there are soo many people in this community that are soo scared and unsupported that they feel the BEST alternative to living is death? So many people are living quiet lives afraid and unsure of themselves and I’m coming out for them. 

"I’m coming out so they know they’re not alone. I’m coming out in hopes that at least one LGBT teen feels like they have support. I’m coming out because I have a unique position in this community and no matter how much criticism comes my way it will be worth it if just one person avoids suicide or just feels better about themself."

And this message has been met with love and positivity for the most part as friends have commented on his post: 

"Thank you, Stacey. I have had several students come out to me. I have been honored to be a friend to them. You will have unique power to build love and acceptance. Blessings!"  

"So much love to you, man! As a fellow queer BYU grad it's so awesome to see others being authentically themselves out in the open—and especially in your position of influence. You are so courageous, and lives will be blessed because of it." 

But his message carried another sweet message—one that came from Harkey's experience as a member of the Church wrestling with his identity. 

"I’m not ashamed of who I am," Harkey shares. 

"A little while back I found myself at an ultimate low, praying and begging God for answers, pleading for direction and guidance. In that moment I felt so much peace and love. I instantly felt like this part of myself that I’ve grown to demonize is an integral part of who I am. This part of myself that I’ve spent my whole life fighting isn’t my enemy. This part of myself that I’ve shoved into a dark dungeon deserves light. It was the sweetest feeling and it taught me that God expects me to be who he made me to be and expects me to develop myself and magnify who I am.

"You are soo important! Believe me when I say that you are needed. This community needs you and the beautiful hues you bring to it. If you need/want to talk Please text me/call me/message me. No matter if you’re gay or straight come talk to me if you have any questions and it’ll stay between us."

Thank you for posting this.  When I read his post, this is the part that I most identified with

Quote

 

"I’m not ashamed of who I am," Harkey shares. 

"A little while back I found myself at an ultimate low, praying and begging God for answers, pleading for direction and guidance. In that moment I felt so much peace and love. I instantly felt like this part of myself that I’ve grown to demonize is an integral part of who I am. This part of myself that I’ve spent my whole life fighting isn’t my enemy. This part of myself that I’ve shoved into a dark dungeon deserves light. It was the sweetest feeling and it taught me that God expects me to be who he made me to be and expects me to develop myself and magnify who I am.

"You are soo important! Believe me when I say that you are needed. This community needs you and the beautiful hues you bring to it. If you need/want to talk Please text me/call me/message me. No matter if you’re gay or straight come talk to me if you have any questions and it’ll stay between us."

 

 

For so long I hated being gay.  And I too pleaded with God to somehow make me straight.  I got that same peaceful feeling.  And it has made all the difference in my life.  I now realize that I have learned so many positive Christ-like attributes from going. through this experience.  I understand that we each have a journey back to God. We don't know the burdens and trials another one carries.  We have no right to judge their path or demonize it just because it is different than the path that we are on.  Lying to others by pretending to blend in is worse than all the judgemental shaming that others try to inflict upon me.  It does get better.  In fact, what I once cursed God for the burden placed upon me, I thank Him for and know that I am stronger and better for it.  

 

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, california boy said:

Thank you for posting this.  When I read his post, this is the part that I most identified with

For so long I hated being gay.  And I too pleaded with God to somehow make me straight.  I got that same peaceful feeling.  And it has made all the difference in my life.  I now realize that I have learned so many positive Christ-like attributes from going. through this experience.  I understand that we each have a journey back to God. We don't know the burdens and trials another one carries.  We have no right to judge their path or demonize it just because it is different than the path that we are on.  Lying to others by pretending to blend in is worse than all the judgemental shaming that others try to inflict upon me.  It does get better.  In fact, what I once cursed God for the burden placed upon me, I thank Him for and know that I am stronger and better for it.  

 

You are a great example for many California Boy! The world is changing, the youth are teaching us! My nephew on my husband's side is gay and has a partner, not married yet. He gives my mother-in-law a ride to his parents house now, each month for family dinners. And this has given them lots of time to talk. She now is feeling so bad for how he has been treated in the past. I'm sure she's feeling a lot of cog dis because her strong faith in the gospel and the belief in the COJCOLDS. She has mentioned to my husband how sad that her grandson has gone through all that he has. Baby steps! 

[Jeanne]

59 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

You are a great example for many California Boy! The world is changing, the youth are teaching us! My nephew on my husband's side is gay and has a partner, not married yet. He gives my mother-in-law a ride to his parents house now, each month for family dinners. And this has given them lots of time to talk. She now is feeling so bad for how he has been treated in the past. I'm sure she's feeling a lot of cog dis because her strong faith in the gospel and the belief in the COJCOLDS. She has mentioned to my husband how sad that her grandson has gone through all that he has. Baby steps! 

I  agree!

[california boy]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

You are a great example for many California Boy! The world is changing, the youth are teaching us! My nephew on my husband's side is gay and has a partner, not married yet. He gives my mother-in-law a ride to his parents house now, each month for family dinners. And this has given them lots of time to talk. She now is feeling so bad for how he has been treated in the past. I'm sure she's feeling a lot of cog dis because her strong faith in the gospel and the belief in the COJCOLDS. She has mentioned to my husband how sad that her grandson has gone through all that he has. Baby steps! 

Thanks, Tacenda.  You actually brought up an interesting question.  I have been with my partner for 10 years now.  In January we are going to Las Vegas to see Lady Gaga.  We were talking about Vegas and all that goes on there.  Out of the blue, he says to me, "Maybe we should get married".  Honestly, I kind of freaked.  I wondered what the impact would be on my very LDS family.  Being members of the Church, would it freak them out if we got married?  In the eyes of the church, is a gay couple getting married considered some line in the sand that if crossed is the worse thing you can ever do bar murder?  My partner told me, I didn't have to tell them.  But the days of hiding things like that from those that I love are long behind me.  I am just not willing to ever live that kind of lie again.  

So the bottom line is, would it cause another escalation of my family freaking out if I got married?  Not sure if I could go through that again.  And frankly, marriage is not that important to either one of us.  It is more the gesture I think. Something we would just do between the two of us.  I know I don't want any family members struggling on whether they should attend a gay marriage.  Either way, it wouldn't change our relationship one bit.  I am with him forever one way or the other.  That I am sure of.

[Tacenda]

30 minutes ago, california boy said:

Thanks, Tacenda.  You actually brought up an interesting question.  I have been with my partner for 10 years now.  In January we are going to Las Vegas to see Lady Gaga.  We were talking about Vegas and all that goes on there.  Out of the blue, he says to me, "Maybe we should get married".  Honestly, I kind of freaked.  I wondered what the impact would be on my very LDS family.  Being members of the Church, would it freak them out if we got married?  In the eyes of the church, is a gay couple getting married considered some line in the sand that if crossed is the worse thing you can ever do bar murder?  My partner told me, I didn't have to tell them.  But the days of hiding things like that from those that I love are long behind me.  I am just not willing to ever live that kind of lie again.  

So the bottom line is, would it cause another escalation of my family freaking out if I got married?  Not sure if I could go through that again.  And frankly, marriage is not that important to either one of us.  It is more the gesture I think. Something we would just do between the two of us.  I know I don't want any family members struggling on whether they should attend a gay marriage.  Either way, it wouldn't change our relationship one bit.  I am with him forever one way or the other.  That I am sure of.

It may, because of the "the policy" and the fact you would not be with them in the afterlife in their minds or that you would then be considered an apostate. Or maybe they are at a point that they would accept it since things are a changin! But what a cool thing to do.

Lady Gaga!!! How exciting, I hope her illness won't get in the way of how she'd want to perform. My sister went to her concert not long ago before knowing of her illness and was really upset that she was an hour or two late showing up.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/41250806/lady-gaga-reveals-chronic-illness-with-fibromyalgia-featuring-in-her-new-documentary 

[Calm]

5 hours ago, california boy said:

 In the eyes of the church, is a gay couple getting married considered some line in the sand that if crossed is the worse thing you can ever do bar murder

In my view, it is likely considered a line in the sand but viewed as worse thing you can do bar murder?  I find that highly unlikely.

[Garden Girl]

8 hours ago, california boy said:

Thanks, Tacenda.  You actually brought up an interesting question.  I have been with my partner for 10 years now.  In January we are going to Las Vegas to see Lady Gaga.  We were talking about Vegas and all that goes on there.  Out of the blue, he says to me, "Maybe we should get married".  Honestly, I kind of freaked.  I wondered what the impact would be on my very LDS family.  Being members of the Church, would it freak them out if we got married?  In the eyes of the church, is a gay couple getting married considered some line in the sand that if crossed is the worse thing you can ever do bar murder?  My partner told me, I didn't have to tell them.  But the days of hiding things like that from those that I love are long behind me.  I am just not willing to ever live that kind of lie again.  

So the bottom line is, would it cause another escalation of my family freaking out if I got married?  Not sure if I could go through that again.  And frankly, marriage is not that important to either one of us.  It is more the gesture I think. Something we would just do between the two of us.  I know I don't want any family members struggling on whether they should attend a gay marriage.  Either way, it wouldn't change our relationship one bit.  I am with him forever one way or the other.  That I am sure of.

Hello California Boy... hope this finds you well and that you have enjoyed the holidays...

IMO if marriage isn't critical to either of you, why bother... you could go ahead and have a symbolic gesture just between the two of you, i.e., a simple acknowledgment of your commitment.  Some LGBT feel the need for the formal ceremony/symbolism that an actual marriage affords.  Others share your feeling... Some feel like they are denied certain rights that married couples have, for instance relating to medical/health issues.  I've never understood this... I am a single (widowed) woman with no biological children.  Therefore, no legal biological heirs.  I've had to take care of all these issues legally... by naming a non-relative as my formal healthcare rep/alternate in an "Advance Directive for Health Care" (a legal document) that lists my wishes for every phase of my end of life care that must be honored (Gen Concerns... Prolonging Life incl. resuscitation, food/water via tube... Breathing and other machines... Dementia... Pain Mgmt... Organ donation... giving my healthcare rep formal approval to make all health decisions on my behalf (currently my home teacher).  Same goes for every other phase of my life, i.e., establishing a Power of Attorney naming the person (currently my nephew) to handle all other legal issues.  I also added him to my bank accts/safe dep box, mailbox, etc etc. to make it easier.  Working with my attorney, I've covered everything legally in case I can't act for myself.  My prayer, CB, of course, is that I will keep my brain and intellect clear and active until death... but I am at peace in case this old woman loses it... All single people should take these legal steps to protect themselves and prevent unnecessary difficulty for family...

GG  

[Calm]

We still had to do Power of Attorney for my mom after dad died, me for health issues and my brother for the estate. given her dementia, it has been necessary to protect her.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Calm

[california boy]

I really appreciate all of your comments and advice. I have carefully read them and reread them. For us, deciding to marry is not based on legal or financial considerations. I don’t think my kids would bar my partner from taking care of me if that was necessary. They all like and respect him.  This is more a statement of our commitment to each other. And frankly not marrying is more about not offending my family and creating another cycle of them not feeling comfortable with having contact with us. The church seems to create a culture of putting members into choosing loyalty between the church and gay family members. At least that is how my family has taken church attitudes towards gay issues  

it puts me into a position of not wanting to hurt my partners feelings if this is really something he really wants to do  and not wanting to offend my family

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, california boy said:

I really appreciate all of your comments and advice. I have carefully read them and reread them. For us, deciding to marry is not based on legal or financial considerations. I don’t think my kids would bar my partner from taking care of me if that was necessary. They all like and respect him.  This is more a statement of our commitment to each other. And frankly not marrying is more about not offending my family and creating another cycle of them not feeling comfortable with having contact with us. The church seems to create a culture of putting members into choosing loyalty between the church and gay family members. At least that is how my family has taken church attitudes towards gay issues  

it puts me into a position of not wanting to hurt my partners feelings if this is really something he really wants to do  and not wanting to offend my family

Funny how it would most likely be the opposite if you were in a male/female relationship and the love and support you'd receive for choosing to wed.

I'll never forget even in my TBM days and watching all the stuff on the news around the time of Prop 8 in California. I was on vacation with just the adult sis/bro/mother/father in laws and we were watching the news after watching a BYU game, and I piped up that I thought it was much better that they wanted to get married being gay and not having several partners and it showed their commitment. As a teetering TBM I said this. Everyone was silent when I said that, but you could tell I hit a raw nerve.

At that time my son was in Oakland on his mission and he was out on the streets when all the people came to protest at the Oakland temple. He also saw members of the church saying some very disappointing and non-Christ like things, he's since told me. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Tacenda

[Jeanne]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:47 AM, california boy said:

Thanks, Tacenda.  You actually brought up an interesting question.  I have been with my partner for 10 years now.  In January we are going to Las Vegas to see Lady Gaga.  We were talking about Vegas and all that goes on there.  Out of the blue, he says to me, "Maybe we should get married".  Honestly, I kind of freaked.  I wondered what the impact would be on my very LDS family.  Being members of the Church, would it freak them out if we got married?  In the eyes of the church, is a gay couple getting married considered some line in the sand that if crossed is the worse thing you can ever do bar murder?  My partner told me, I didn't have to tell them.  But the days of hiding things like that from those that I love are long behind me.  I am just not willing to ever live that kind of lie again.  

So the bottom line is, would it cause another escalation of my family freaking out if I got married?  Not sure if I could go through that again.  And frankly, marriage is not that important to either one of us.  It is more the gesture I think. Something we would just do between the two of us.  I know I don't want any family members struggling on whether they should attend a gay marriage.  Either way, it wouldn't change our relationship one bit.  I am with him forever one way or the other.  That I am sure of.

CB....what is best for you and the one you love?

[california boy]

23 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Funny how it would most likely be the opposite if you were in a male/female relationship and the love and support you'd receive for choosing to wed.

I'll never forget even in my TBM days and watching all the stuff on the news around the time of Prop 8 in California. I was on vacation with just the adult sis/bro/mother/father in laws and we were watching the news after watching a BYU game, and I piped up that I thought it was much better that they wanted to get married being gay and not having several partners and it showed their commitment. As a teetering TBM I said this. Everyone was silent when I said that, but you could tell I hit a raw nerve.

At that time my son was in Oakland on his mission and he was out on the streets when all the people came to protest at the Oakland temple. He also saw members of the church saying some very disappointing and non-Christ like things, he's since told me. 

It has always seemed odd to me as well to encourage a couple not to marry.  It is as if the church somehow thinks that if a gay couple doesn't marry then somehow they will want to marry a woman sometime in the far distant future.

[california boy]

23 hours ago, Jeanne said:

CB....what is best for you and the one you love?

I guess that is what I am trying to figure out.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, california boy said:

I guess that is what I am trying to figure out.

I'm super interested in what you thought of the Lady Gaga concert! I'll probably never get to go to one. I tried to get my husband to go see Cher in Vegas but he wasn't having it! And Lady Gaga probably wasn't cheap. Did you see you her in A Star is Born? Anyway, maybe I should keep this from getting too social, and you could PM if you have some time.

[california boy]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'm super interested in what you thought of the Lady Gaga concert! I'll probably never get to go to one. I tried to get my husband to go see Cher in Vegas but he wasn't having it! And Lady Gaga probably wasn't cheap. Did you see you her in A Star is Born? Anyway, maybe I should keep this from getting too social, and you could PM if you have some time.

Sent you a PM

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, california boy said:

Sent you a PM

I didn't see it, maybe my mailbox is full, but just now deleted many.