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blueglass

Replacing BSA in 2020

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Continuing Scouts through 2019 will be challenging.  

As an Eagle scout who earned 3 palms, and enjoyed (mostly) the program, I am disappointed on how many scandals have sullied the boy scouts brand as an organization of volunteers doing service for others.  Scouts helped boys get out of their digital caves and into the wild.  Scouts helped young men explore different careers by fulfilling merit badge requirements.  Scouts helped prepare our young men for emergencies through First Aid, Emergency medicine, CPR training.  Scouts helped young men learn to lead, direct, and plan activities, excursions, camps, projects, and trips when administered properly (Youth led, leader supported).  I have two young sons 14 and 8 and as a family we're looking for alternate volunteer groups, youth service organizations to replace the dying BSA program right now rather than treading water through 2019.

During the friends of scouting drive in Feb of this year our bishop's counselor a true blue scouting apologist replaced the 3rd hour EQ/Relief Society meetings with videos promoting a friends of scouting fundraising push.  Enthusiasm was a bit muted especially from the relief society presidency.  Nonetheless I am forever thankful for the service of my leaders as a young man, and have enjoyed volunteering when I can.  

Anyone have insight on the new YM program to roll out in the next 12 months?  2020?  If you were to design a program to replace BSA what would it look like?    Teancum's Special Forces?  (TSF)? 

Edited by blueglass
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37 minutes ago, blueglass said:

As an Eagle scout who earned 3 palms, and enjoyed (mostly) the program, I am disappointed on how this has sullied the boy scouts brand as an organization of volunteers doing service for others and helping boys get out of their digital caves and into the wild as well as exploring career prospects, and preparing for emergencies.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/boy-scouts-of-america-looks-to-bankruptcy-as-membership-falls-lawsuits-mount-2018-12-12

Continuing Scouts through 2019 will be challenging.  

During the friends of scouting drive in Feb of this year our bishop's counselor a true blue scouting apologist replaced the 3rd hour EQ/Relief Society meetings with videos promoting a friends of scouting fundraising push.  Enthusiasm was a bit muted especially from the relief society presidency.  Nonetheless I am forever thankful for the service of my leaders as a young man, and have enjoyed volunteering when I can.  

Any ideas for how the church YM program will look in 2020?  Teancum's Special Forces?  (TSF)?  

A program has been in development for several years that will replace Personal Progress, Scouting, Duty to God, and the current primary achievement program which I can't remember the name of, with one integrated program.  It will begin in primary and continue throughout their youth years and post mission.

Here's a quote from the letter dated 5/8/18

"For years, Church leaders have been preparing a new initiative to teach and provide leadership and development opportunities to all children and youth, to support families, and to strengthen youth everywhere as they develop faith in the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. This new approach is intended to help all girls and boys, young women and young men discover their eternal identity, build character and resilience, develop life skills, and fulfill their divine roles as daughters and sons of God. The initiative is designed to allow local leaders, families, and even the young people themselves to customize their efforts, while providing service opportunities and activities, fostering healthy relationships, and supporting communities. Details will be shared at childrenandyouth.lds.org as the implementation date approaches."

https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng

Edited by ksfisher
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I agree it's going to be rough.  We have a YMs president who loves scouts and he's still pushing the 14-18 year olds to be involved, which I don't have a problem with other than having one son who dislikes scouting very much (despite his love of all things camping and outdoors) and getting him to go to scout activities is a real challenge.  The real problem is that the boys know the church has pulled out of scouting for that age group and some resent being forced into it.

And our stake keeps reminding us that we are all suppose to support scouts and give to FOS just like any other year, but I it's probably not going to happen (especially with the news about all the lawsuits), so that's not going to be a fun month.

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Ugh. I thought we were done with it the end of this year? My husband is so annoyed with parents and a Scout leader who are trying to fast track them to Eagle. One dad sent an email to all of them with a suggested schedule that just so happened to suit his son's merit badge requirements and one of the activities they had just done. And he was trying to get them to pass off an simple activity when the requirement was to do the thing at a campout.

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2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I agree it's going to be rough.  We have a YMs president who loves scouts and he's still pushing the 14-18 year olds to be involved, which I don't have a problem with other than having one son who dislikes scouting very much (despite his love of all things camping and outdoors) and getting him to go to scout activities is a real challenge.  The real problem is that the boys know the church has pulled out of scouting for that age group and some resent being forced into it.

And our stake keeps reminding us that we are all suppose to support scouts and give to FOS just like any other year, but I it's probably not going to happen (especially with the news about all the lawsuits), so that's not going to be a fun month.

Our son has weak motivation to work on scouts merit badges.  Many merit badges earned from scout camps he didn't care to sew onto his sash, and just left them in a drawer.   Perhaps youth today value less the presentations and formality of the scout uniforms?   He sees it more for the young 12-year olds and not for him.  This gives me great pain as I enjoyed the challenge of merit badges and learning skills from doing the work and setting goals and seeing them through to accomplishment.  Yet after every camping trip, or deep sea fishing trip that he resists going to at the beginning he then comes back full of energy, having thoroughly enjoyed the experience.   The best motivation comes from peers his age not us as parents.  When a peer calls him up and says "let's go - it will be great!"  he goes.  

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6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

And our stake keeps reminding us that we are all suppose to support scouts and give to FOS just like any other year, but I it's probably not going to happen (especially with the news about all the lawsuits), so that's not going to be a fun month.

I never liked scouting as a youth, but as both of my sons really enjoyed their time as scout I've always made it a point to give a generous donation to FOS.  However, with the changes that the BSA has made the past couple years I have not donated.  This year we didn't even mention the FOS driver in our ward.

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17 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

Ugh. I thought we were done with it the end of this year? My husband is so annoyed with parents and a Scout leader who are trying to fast track them to Eagle. One dad sent an email to all of them with a suggested schedule that just so happened to suit his son's merit badge requirements and one of the activities they had just done. And he was trying to get them to pass off an simple activity when the requirement was to do the thing at a campout.

Kids will always have some free-time, and a merit badge counselor or non-judgmental, easy-going mentor is key.  Merit badge workshops, clinics, and choosing primarily only merit badges which the young man has an interest in could help.   I can see the challenge pushing through for the last hurrah year.   I've also found that removing all "scouting" terminology, vocabulary from my communications helps.  Let's work on learning about local government - rather than ('let's work on the citizenship in the community merit badge").  I've tried to remove the words merit badge and "requirements" entirely.  

Edited by blueglass
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13 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I never liked scouting as a youth, but as both of my sons really enjoyed their time as scout I've always made it a point to give a generous donation to FOS.  However, with the changes that the BSA has made the past couple years I have not donated.  This year we didn't even mention the FOS driver in our ward.

In our stake the push came directly from the stake president that we were required to have FOS fundraising activities.  Our bishop's counselor asked special permission to replace the 3rd hour of church meetings with a FOS fundraising promotion.  

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32 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

Ugh. I thought we were done with it the end of this year? My husband is so annoyed with parents and a Scout leader who are trying to fast track them to Eagle. One dad sent an email to all of them with a suggested schedule that just so happened to suit his son's merit badge requirements and one of the activities they had just done. And he was trying to get them to pass off an simple activity when the requirement was to do the thing at a campout.

 

38 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I agree it's going to be rough.  We have a YMs president who loves scouts and he's still pushing the 14-18 year olds to be involved, which I don't have a problem with other than having one son who dislikes scouting very much (despite his love of all things camping and outdoors) and getting him to go to scout activities is a real challenge.  The real problem is that the boys know the church has pulled out of scouting for that age group and some resent being forced into it.

And our stake keeps reminding us that we are all suppose to support scouts and give to FOS just like any other year, but I it's probably not going to happen (especially with the news about all the lawsuits), so that's not going to be a fun month.

On the other hand, the Scout leader in my son Artisticosso’s ward is offering to help any boy in their ward who wants to get on a fast (legitimate) track to Eagle. Our grandson Matturissimo, having seen the example of his older brother, is pumped to be able to do that! He just turned 12 and will be able to accomplish his goal.

Having been a recipient of some wonderful and irreplaceable Scouting experiences as a youth and adult, the demise of Scouting breaks my heart. Seems like so many of our foundational institutions are being targeted for doom due to PCness.

Since the Church doesn’ have the resources and our boys and adults seem less interested in the outdoors, I see it creating a much watered-down outdoor program kind of like the annual girls camp.  Our stake already has a girls-camp-type summer boys activity called Camp Helaman. There will be an emphasis on service, but not sure what that will look like.

Edited by Bernard Gui

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26 minutes ago, blueglass said:

Our son has weak motivation to work on scouts merit badges.  Many merit badges earned from scout camps he didn't care to sew onto his sash, and just left them in a drawer.   Perhaps youth today value less the presentations and formality of the scout uniforms?   He sees it more for the young 12-year olds and not for him.  This gives me great pain as I enjoyed the challenge of merit badges and learning skills from doing the work and setting goals and seeing them through to accomplishment.  Yet after every camping trip, or deep sea fishing trip that he resists going to at the beginning he then comes back full of energy, having thoroughly enjoyed the experience.   The best motivation comes from peers his age not us as parents.  When a peer calls him up and says "let's go - it will be great!"  he goes.  

That’s the magic and genius of Scouting as you and I knew it. I hope the Church can find a good replacement.

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51 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

 

On the other hand, the Scout leader in my son Artisticosso’s ward is offering to help any boy in their ward who wants to get on a fast (legitimate) track to Eagle. Our grandson Matturissimo, having seen the example of his older brother, is pumped to be able to do that! He just turned 12 and will be able to accomplish his goal.

Having been a recipient of some wonderful and irreplaceable Scouting experiences as a youth and adult, the demise of Scouting breaks my heart. Seems like so many of our foundational institutions are being targeted for doom due to PCness.

Since the Church doesn’ have the resources and our boys and adults seem less interested in the outdoors, I see it creating a much watered-down outdoor program kind of like the annual girls camp.  Our stake already has a girls-camp-type summer boys activity called Camp Helaman. There will be an emphasis on service, but not sure what that will look like.

Our stake also does Camp Helaman for Priest-age boys every summer.  It happens right after the 16-18 year old girls camp (called Daughters of Zion).  Both are awesome, with Youth being almost completely in charge of putting them together (with adult leader guidance).

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We have some great local Packs and Troops in our community.  I hope they'll get some of the LDS Boys to join.  Although I did hear from one parent that her son got burned out on all the fundraising at their school's Pack.  I told her they should have joined the LDS pack.  No fundraising!

 

 

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My view has always been I expect that YM will still run much the same as it has, just with no uniforms, badges, and courts of honor.  We will still go camping and burn stuff (responsibly).  We will still go camping and try to get the other scouts to enjoy high adventure activities.  There will still be wooden gravity powered car races in the spring where dads "help" make the cars.  We will still have career and skill focused nights, and we will still have bad YM leaders who never plan anything and watch the boys play basketball every week.  Just less guilt about friends of scouting and eagle ranks. 

Stake and regional co-ordination will take on more of the summer camp and large activity planning.  But let's be honest, if you were a scout commissioner (as many were) you were already doing those sorts of things as part of your calling.  What changes is the camp sites will not be BSA campsites and will be regular old group campsites provided by state and national parks.

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1 hour ago, revelstoked said:

My view has always been I expect that YM will still run much the same as it has, just with no uniforms, badges, and courts of honor.  We will still go camping and burn stuff (responsibly).  We will still go camping and try to get the other scouts to enjoy high adventure activities.  There will still be wooden gravity powered car races in the spring where dads "help" make the cars.  We will still have career and skill focused nights, and we will still have bad YM leaders who never plan anything and watch the boys play basketball every week.  Just less guilt about friends of scouting and eagle ranks. 

Stake and regional co-ordination will take on more of the summer camp and large activity planning.  But let's be honest, if you were a scout commissioner (as many were) you were already doing those sorts of things as part of your calling.  What changes is the camp sites will not be BSA campsites and will be regular old group campsites provided by state and national parks.

In Utah, without the Church, I think scouting is doomed. Perhaps scouting will be willing to sell these lands or reassign their contracts/leases to the Church. In the event scouting doesn't want to do this, maybe it would be willing to share the land, but I don't see that working well. A lot of these sites have multiple buildings and will be extremely hard to replace/match, but I don't see any other use for them. What would the Forest Service or park do with them? I hate to see them just go unused. Some of them are really prime sites. In most places, however, scout camps are very undeveloped, so simply going to a park campground or getting a BLM permit will suffice.

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My spouse feels the real problem with scouts is the boys are not interested because it is no longer cool. It’s nerdy and when your dealing with teenagers, that means s lot.

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33 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

My spouse feels the real problem with scouts is the boys are not interested because it is no longer cool. It’s nerdy and when your dealing with teenagers, that means s lot.

It was always nerdy 

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If they file, all those properties purchased with Church funds over all those years and titled in BSA and its affiliates will be sold to pay victims.

The buyer? I have a theory.

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7 hours ago, revelstoked said:

My view has always been I expect that YM will still run much the same as it has, just with no uniforms, badges, and courts of honor.  We will still go camping and burn stuff (responsibly).  We will still go camping and try to get the other scouts to enjoy high adventure activities.  There will still be wooden gravity powered car races in the spring where dads "help" make the cars.  We will still have career and skill focused nights, and we will still have bad YM leaders who never plan anything and watch the boys play basketball every week.  Just less guilt about friends of scouting and eagle ranks. 

Stake and regional co-ordination will take on more of the summer camp and large activity planning.  But let's be honest, if you were a scout commissioner (as many were) you were already doing those sorts of things as part of your calling.  What changes is the camp sites will not be BSA campsites and will be regular old group campsites provided by state and national parks.

Maybe the church will acquire these bsa campsites?  

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1 hour ago, USU78 said:

If they file, all those properties purchased with Church funds over all those years and titled in BSA and its affiliates will be sold to pay victims.

The buyer? I have a theory.

I think I know what you’re thinking. 

‘Twould be rich irony if the Church of Jesus Christ became the de facto Boy Scouts of America in futurity. 

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7 hours ago, revelstoked said:

My view has always been I expect that YM will still run much the same as it has, just with no uniforms, badges, and courts of honor.  We will still go camping and burn stuff (responsibly).  We will still go camping and try to get the other scouts to enjoy high adventure activities.  There will still be wooden gravity powered car races in the spring where dads "help" make the cars.  We will still have career and skill focused nights, and we will still have bad YM leaders who never plan anything and watch the boys play basketball every week.  Just less guilt about friends of scouting and eagle ranks. 

Stake and regional co-ordination will take on more of the summer camp and large activity planning.  But let's be honest, if you were a scout commissioner (as many were) you were already doing those sorts of things as part of your calling.  What changes is the camp sites will not be BSA campsites and will be regular old group campsites provided by state and national parks.

Time will tell.

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6 hours ago, bsjkki said:

My spouse feels the real problem with scouts is the boys are not interested because it is no longer cool. It’s nerdy and when your dealing with teenagers, that means s lot.

It was nerdy in 1963 when I earned my Eagle. The coolness is that you are having a really grand time with your best friends and who cares about appearances. 

BTW, being an LDS teen in a non-LDS community is not exactly the epitome of coolness.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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19 hours ago, USU78 said:

If they file, all those properties purchased with Church funds over all those years and titled in BSA and its affiliates will be sold to pay victims.

The buyer? I have a theory.

Almost all camps are owned by the local councils, which are separate from BSA financially.  So I don't see a mass selling off of camps unless someone sues a specific council for past abuses, and then only that council's camp is at risk.  Ch.11 may open that up as a tactic.  The COs and Local councils are more liable than BSA IMHO but BSA has the liability insurance and endowment to go after.  You always sue people who can pay.

Edited by revelstoked
tpyo

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BSA was poisoned by politics, which usually destroys everything it touches.

Glad to see them consider declaring bankruptcy.

"That which is falling deserves to be pushed." - Nietzsche

I feel bad for the older generation who has spent 10, 20, 30+ years in scouting.

As for the lands, the BLM - if they bought BSA lands - would do what they do with land, hope nothing bad happens.

If the Church bought the lands, that would make sense from a financial perspective - not sure I believe the Second Coming preparation reason for such purchases. 

 

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15 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

BSA was poisoned by politics, which usually destroys everything it touches.

Glad to see them consider declaring bankruptcy.

"That which is falling deserves to be pushed." - Nietzsche

I feel bad for the older generation who has spent 10, 20, 30+ years in scouting.

As for the lands, the BLM - if they bought BSA lands - would do what they do with land, hope nothing bad happens.

If the Church bought the lands, that would make sense from a financial perspective - not sure I believe the Second Coming preparation reason for such purchases. 

 

What would the second coming purposes be?

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On 12/15/2018 at 1:32 PM, Avatar4321 said:

What would the second coming purposes be?

Some preppers in my stake (a few thousand miles from UT) have suggested that the Church woudl buy those lands in preparation of the people who will flee to Zion due to the plagues, natural disasters, etc. in the last days. 

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