Jump to content
rockpond

Hype for April 2019 Conference

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Hey if not now there will be plenty of time during the millennium to find your wife. 

💘

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Duncan said:

💘

It occurred to me maybe we made arrangements with our premortality besties like in those rom-coms, that if we aren't married by the end of mortality we will hook up with each other.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, Duncan said:

That's what I wonder about as well, single men such as myself, what will happen? I want to get married but, unless someone moves here then it isn't happening despite my PB that talks about children-I have one but children implies more than one. I think it was Pres. Lorenzo Snow who didn't want his childless sister Eliza ( I think she was a plural wife to two Prophets) not to have exaltation but he theorized that she would have that chance in the next life, but I don't think he claimed revelation on that. How do you plan your life on someone's theory? If I die unmarried and get to the next life and now is told oh yeah well, you needed to have been married there and sealed there or sealed for the dead here, otherwise sorry man! It reinforces that idea that the Church is for married folks

I think there's a lot we don't understand, and as humans, it's in our nature to want answers to everything, to be able to tie things up in a neat little box, but often doing so, means we close our minds to other possibilities.  When discussing polygamy in the next life, my Dad would always bring up the claim that there are more righteous women than men and so they will need to be plural wives and we'd always end in a stalemate because I said he had no proof to make that claim.  To him, it was what he knew--he'd been a Bishop (twice) and served in a Stake Pres. and so he had lots of experience working with members--and I don't fault his coming to certain conclusions based on his own experience.  However, there's so much we haven't experienced and know little about.  As Calm said, we had a whole pre-mortal lifetime before our mortality.  I seriously doubt I only associated with the people I know in this life-I know that I had friends and associates who lived in other times.

I think many people with righteous desires just don't have the blessing of an eternal marriage in this life--for many reasons -- first off, you have to find someone  who wants to marry you, and that isn't that easy. You have to find someone you have some kind of special connection with, and then, it has to be reciprocated--then it has to be acted upon and you hope the person has the same goals, commitments and desires you do.  That's tough in our fractured, frayed Society today, IMO.

Heavenly Father sent us here to be tested, and it's a real test--it's hard!  Our weaknesses and even our strengths are often turned against us, as we are put in life circumstances for our profit and learning for the next life. I believe that for some, not ever finding someone or losing a love they thought was for eternity, is a big part of their trial.  Life is hard and it's meant to be--but to me, the biggest, overall test is whether we turn to God or turn against him, in dealing with what comes in our lives.

 

If you put your trust in a loving God who's made promises to you, then you won't even consider that he could be unfair in his judgments.  He knows the intent of our hearts and he knows everything about us.  Pres. Lorenzo Snow had that kind of trust in a just God who is the embodiment of love, in regards to his sister's eternal future.  We do proxy work for those who've died before us, and I'm certain that many of us will need proxy work done on our behalf --and with all the temples which will dot the earth during the Millenium, I know they will be used to make this work available for all those who desire it on the other side.  'Faith, Hope and Charity' are key to coming to comprehend the true nature of God, as well as our fellowmen.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I wish @Ahab were still around. I remember his view of the celestial kingdom included washing dishes and doing laundry.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I wish @Ahab were still around. I remember his view of the celestial kingdom included washing dishes and doing laundry.

It is not an unreasonable position.  We believe we will be wearing clothing of some sort, I can't see why there wouldn't be dirt and other loose materials around that could be transferred to clothing.  I like the idea of rolling around in Celestial grass and building sand castles on the beaches with perfect sands and waves of celestial beaches.  They may, otoh, be perfectly stain repellant or have some quality that purifies in a physical as opposed to spiritual sense.

And if we eat, it would be weird to just have the food suspended in mid air, so that means dishes.  If they, like clothes, get dirty, they need to be cleaned surely?

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is not an unreasonable position.  We believe we will be wearing clothing of some sort, I can't see why there wouldn't be dirt and other loose materials around that could be transferred to clothing.  I like the idea of rolling around in Celestial grass and building sand castles on the beaches with perfect sands and waves of celestial beaches.  They may, otoh, be perfectly stain repellant or have some quality that purifies in a physical as opposed to spiritual sense.

And if we eat, it would be weird to just have the food suspended in mid air, so that means dishes.  If they, like clothes, get dirty, they need to be cleaned surely?

I guess this is an example of LDS naturalism. It's odd for us in the supernatural camp to think of heaven as some kind of awesome earthly existence where dishes would be part of our routine.

(Who makes the soap? Who does the plumbing? Where does the dirty water go? Who runs the treatment center? Maybe those in the lower kingdoms ;) )

I don't view heaven as an extension of this kind of life, but as a mystical unity with God. I guess I don't need to know the details because I trust that God has created a state of being that is perfect joy. This is why I don't worry about the details of my status with my family in the afterlife. It will be just perfect, whatever that is. God is not going to make heaven a "place" where I would be missing my family and not full of perfect joy. When that one apostle said that it wouldn't be heaven if his family wasn't there, I found that a bit presumptuous for him to say, because only God knows what heaven and perfect joy are. Our minds and wills and desires are clouded over here in mortal life, so it's rather difficult for us to declare what perfect joy is. I understand that families together forever is a big selling point for the LDS, but it doesn't resonate with me. I'm not saying I don't want to be with my family, but heaven will be perfect, so I don't worry about it and I'm not swayed by an appeal to emotion that the heaven of Catholicism is somehow inferior because there is not an explicit teaching that we will be with our families.

I suspect heaven is beyond our earthly comprehension.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I guess this is an example of LDS naturalism. It's odd for us in the supernatural camp to think of heaven as some kind of awesome earthly existence where dishes would be part of our routine.

I think in general we tend to be very vague about what is implied by our beliefs and if someone actually stopped to think about, I bet there would be a huge range of ideas.  There are many things I haven't been able to do that I am hoping---but am not certain about---to do when my body and the environment is more agreeable.  When younger, this included reading all the comic books my parents were not willing to give me money for ( they bought Richie Rich and Archie packs for traveling entertainment, I wanted Thor and Hawkman).

We have descriptions of physical structures in heaven that may be symbolic or not (throne of God, for example).  The Father having a body for us probably makes a big difference in expectations.  Some have taught our bodies will not have blood, but be of light...which some assume means no eating necessarily, though they don't explain how that works.  Many probably assume a sort of physical stasis of perfection once resurrected, but I like the idea perfection gives us such control over our bodies we can have fun with being taller or shorter, younger or older, long hair short, etc.  I like the idea of wandering the universe in exploration, maybe not to learn how it works, but to experience it intimately myself....though I am guessing in one sense awareness may be how omnipresence is expressed with a physical form.

Do you believe there will be eating and drinking in heaven?  Not necessarily as a need, but more celebration?  I think the Bible talks of Christ having wine, but too tired to look that up right now (weird night and I don't have to go anywhere as Mom has been placed under quarantine due to a nasty bug going around her retirement home and I have been told to stay away and let someone already exposed take care of her needs, so I kind of have a vacation for a few days and today that means I am not going to try and wake up, do more of a zombie routine).  Is this something you see only happening in the same sort of manner it happened right after his resurrection If my memory is right?  Or something that gets done with the resurrected as well?

Edited by Calm

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Calm said:

I think in general we tend to be very vague about what is implied by our beliefs and if someone actually stopped to think about, I bet there would be a huge range of ideas.  There are many things I haven't been able to do that I am hoping---but am not certain about---to do when my body and the environment is more agreeable.  When younger, this included reading all the comic books my parents were not willing to give me money for ( they bought Richie Rich and Archie packs for traveling entertainment, I wanted Thor and Hawkman).

We have descriptions of physical structures in heaven that may be symbolic or not (throne of God, for example).  The Father having a body for us probably makes a big difference in expectations.  Some have taught our bodies will not have blood, but be of light...which some assume means no eating necessarily, though they don't explain how that works.  Many probably assume a sort of physical stasis of perfection once resurrected, but I like the idea perfection gives us such control over our bodies we can have fun with being taller or shorter, younger or older, long hair short, etc.  I like the idea of wandering the universe in exploration, maybe not to learn how it works, but to experience it intimately myself....though I am guessing in one sense awareness may be how omnipresence is expressed with a physical form.

Do you believe there will be eating and drinking in heaven?  Not necessarily as a need, but more celebration?  I think the Bible talks of Christ having wine, but too tired to look that up right now (weird night and I don't have to go anywhere as Mom has been placed under quarantine due to a nasty bug going around her retirement home and I have been told to stay away and let someone already exposed take care of her needs, so I kind of have a vacation for a few days and today that means I am not going to try and wake up, do more of a zombie routine).  Is this something you see only happening in the same sort of manner it happened right after his resurrection If my memory is right?  Or something that gets done with the resurrected as well?

I don't know about all of this, but if heaven is going to be heaven for me there will have to be plenty of Diet Dr. Pepper on every corner!

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/11/2019 at 1:58 PM, MiserereNobis said:

I guess this is an example of LDS naturalism. It's odd for us in the supernatural camp to think of heaven as some kind of awesome earthly existence where dishes would be part of our routine.

(Who makes the soap? Who does the plumbing? Where does the dirty water go? Who runs the treatment center? Maybe those in the lower kingdoms ;) )

I don't view heaven as an extension of this kind of life, but as a mystical unity with God. I guess I don't need to know the details because I trust that God has created a state of being that is perfect joy. This is why I don't worry about the details of my status with my family in the afterlife. It will be just perfect, whatever that is. God is not going to make heaven a "place" where I would be missing my family and not full of perfect joy. When that one apostle said that it wouldn't be heaven if his family wasn't there, I found that a bit presumptuous for him to say, because only God knows what heaven and perfect joy are. Our minds and wills and desires are clouded over here in mortal life, so it's rather difficult for us to declare what perfect joy is. I understand that families together forever is a big selling point for the LDS, but it doesn't resonate with me. I'm not saying I don't want to be with my family, but heaven will be perfect, so I don't worry about it and I'm not swayed by an appeal to emotion that the heaven of Catholicism is somehow inferior because there is not an explicit teaching that we will be with our families.

I suspect heaven is beyond our earthly comprehension.

While I might be accused in some quarters of “LDS naturalism,” I think I lean further toward your mysticism camp than Calm apparently does. That is to say I think it myopic to harbor notions that some of the menial work and mundanity of this fallen state of mortality will be carried forward. I have to have some basis for hope in a glorious resurrection and exaltation. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 4/11/2019 at 4:50 PM, Navidad said:

I don't know about all of this, but if heaven is going to be heaven for me there will have to be plenty of Diet Dr. Pepper on every corner!

We can joke and engage in pleasant banter about such things but, in the final analysis, I don’t believe we can say with any degree of certainty what our desires and passions will be in the life to come. In my childhood I was intensely interested in Matchbox cars and professional wrestling. Today those things hold little if any appeal for me. 

“When I was a child, I thought as a child, but now I am a man, I have put away my childish things” (not precisely an accurate rendition of the quote, but you can look it up). 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/11/2019 at 2:25 PM, Calm said:

I think in general we tend to be very vague about what is implied by our beliefs and if someone actually stopped to think about, I bet there would be a huge range of ideas.  There are many things I haven't been able to do that I am hoping---but am not certain about---to do when my body and the environment is more agreeable.  When younger, this included reading all the comic books my parents were not willing to give me money for ( they bought Richie Rich and Archie packs for traveling entertainment, I wanted Thor and Hawkman).

We have descriptions of physical structures in heaven that may be symbolic or not (throne of God, for example).  The Father having a body for us probably makes a big difference in expectations.  Some have taught our bodies will not have blood, but be of light...which some assume means no eating necessarily, though they don't explain how that works.  Many probably assume a sort of physical stasis of perfection once resurrected, but I like the idea perfection gives us such control over our bodies we can have fun with being taller or shorter, younger or older, long hair short, etc.  I like the idea of wandering the universe in exploration, maybe not to learn how it works, but to experience it intimately myself....though I am guessing in one sense awareness may be how omnipresence is expressed with a physical form.

Do you believe there will be eating and drinking in heaven?  Not necessarily as a need, but more celebration?  I think the Bible talks of Christ having wine, but too tired to look that up right now (weird night and I don't have to go anywhere as Mom has been placed under quarantine due to a nasty bug going around her retirement home and I have been told to stay away and let someone already exposed take care of her needs, so I kind of have a vacation for a few days and today that means I am not going to try and wake up, do more of a zombie routine).  Is this something you see only happening in the same sort of manner it happened right after his resurrection If my memory is right?  Or something that gets done with the resurrected as well?

The Bible tells us that Christ put on a fish fry for his disciples after the resurrection. 

I think eating will be possible but not required. 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 4/11/2019 at 4:50 PM, Navidad said:

I don't know about all of this, but if heaven is going to be heaven for me there will have to be plenty of Diet Dr. Pepper on every corner!

If metabolism and obesity won’t be an issue (and they won’t), why would it have to be <diet> Dr. Pepper?

Edited by Scott Lloyd
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

As long as we are making stuff up I imagine we will have manna and it will taste however we want it to taste

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

As long as we are making stuff up I imagine we will have manna and it will taste however we want it to taste

Or we could conjure up the pleasant sensation without the involvement of any “food” whatsoever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

While I might be accused in some quarters of “LDS naturalism,” I think I lean further toward your mysticism camp than Calm apparently does. That is to say I think it myopic to harbor notions that some of the menial work and mundanity of this fallen state of mortality will be carried forward. I have to have some basis for hope in a glorious resurrection and exaltation. 

I don't have an opinion or expectation beyond a desire to experience somethings I enjoy very much still, like swimming in the ocean.  I do assume other things will give me that level of joy and much more if we move beyond that.

I just don't see those like Ahab who was referred to as expecting such things as being unreasonable for thinking that way.  I was attempting to create an argument for his position he might use to explain it since he isn't here.

Edited by Calm

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/11/2019 at 1:58 PM, MiserereNobis said:

I guess this is an example of LDS naturalism. It's odd for us in the supernatural camp to think of heaven as some kind of awesome earthly existence where dishes would be part of our routine.

(Who makes the soap? Who does the plumbing? Where does the dirty water go? Who runs the treatment center? Maybe those in the lower kingdoms ;) )

I don't view heaven as an extension of this kind of life, but as a mystical unity with God. I guess I don't need to know the details because I trust that God has created a state of being that is perfect joy. This is why I don't worry about the details of my status with my family in the afterlife. It will be just perfect, whatever that is. God is not going to make heaven a "place" where I would be missing my family and not full of perfect joy. When that one apostle said that it wouldn't be heaven if his family wasn't there, I found that a bit presumptuous for him to say, because only God knows what heaven and perfect joy are. Our minds and wills and desires are clouded over here in mortal life, so it's rather difficult for us to declare what perfect joy is. I understand that families together forever is a big selling point for the LDS, but it doesn't resonate with me. I'm not saying I don't want to be with my family, but heaven will be perfect, so I don't worry about it and I'm not swayed by an appeal to emotion that the heaven of Catholicism is somehow inferior because there is not an explicit teaching that we will be with our families.

I suspect heaven is beyond our earthly comprehension.

Prophets or leaders of any church that talk about the second coming being imminent, is so wrong on many levels. For one the youth, it puts a halt on them planning for their futures. I remember when 2012 was rolling around and how some were thinking it will be the end of the world because of the Mayan calendar.

At that time my son's high school seminary teacher was teaching that the world was going to end in their lifetimes. It affected my son in a bad way. Any mention of colleges or future endeavours would meet with him asking, "why plan, the world is ending soon".

I think that was why Pres. Packer told a ward somewhere that the youth will live a long time and be grandparents one day. I believe it mentions in the Bible that no one knows when that time will be. I know this isn't anything to do with the CK. But I liken it to the end of the world thing because it makes some think they won't be with their families and that's awful. 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Why are they not reporting membership numbers in conference? Could it be that the numbers are dwindling. Just saw this spreadsheet someone put together. https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7206285C99C2C561!8657&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!ADh3kgMTx9tTKrA

Why?  I don't believe they have stated a reason.  They do still report the membership statistics on Mormon Newsroom but they stopped giving those figures as a report in General Conference two years ago.  I think it's because growth rates have declined so much that they are likely trying to phase out publication of these statistics.  For now, we're still getting them online.  I believe we'll see publication diminish over time until eventually they are no longer published (probably close to the time that the numbers stop showing growth).

 

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Why are they not reporting membership numbers in conference? Could it be that the numbers are dwindling. Just saw this spreadsheet someone put together. https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7206285C99C2C561!8657&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!ADh3kgMTx9tTKrA

 

24 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Does everything need to be a conspiracy theory?

This is all they said about the change so it's all we have to go off of.  Anything else is just someone's guess based on their unsupported opinions.

"We note that the statistical report which has traditionally been presented during this session of April general conference will now be published on LDS.org immediately following this meeting and will be included in the conference issue of the Church magazines."

My personal guess based on unsupported opinion is that they didn't want to use up conference time with the statistical report anymore (like how they've been asking us not to use up sacrament meeting and class time with announcements that can easily be announced other places).

If they are trying to hide something, they are certainly doing a poor job of it, publishing the statistical report on the Church website immediately following the conference. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Why are they not reporting membership numbers in conference? Could it be that the numbers are dwindling. Just saw this spreadsheet someone put together. https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7206285C99C2C561!8657&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!ADh3kgMTx9tTKrA

I think it's because they only have a very limited amount of time to teach and share what Heavenly Father and Jesus want them to share and it's only twice a year!  That's not much time and when we tune in, we don't want them wasting time or focusing on earthly concerns.  Numbers and statistics are not important--and they are not how we as members, should gauge our progress, so there's little need to emphasize them--I'd say it can even be detrimental to focus on numbers.  And if anyone wants that information, it's not hidden.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
45 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Does everything need to be a conspiracy theory?

This is all they said about the change so it's all we have to go off of.  Anything else is just someone's guess based on their unsupported opinions.

"We note that the statistical report which has traditionally been presented during this session of April general conference will now be published on LDS.org immediately following this meeting and will be included in the conference issue of the Church magazines."

My personal guess based on unsupported opinion is that they didn't want to use up conference time with the statistical report anymore (like how they've been asking us not to use up sacrament meeting and class time with announcements that can easily be announced other places).

Yep, publish it so it can be read, but it's a wise decision on their part to no longer waste time reading all that when it's not 'inspiring' and inviting the spirit, which is what we want and need from Conference. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, alter idem said:

Yep, publish it so it can be read, but it's a wise decision on their part to no longer waste time reading all that when it's not 'inspiring' and inviting the spirit, which is what we want and need from Conference. 

I believe they have also stopped publishing it in the Ensign/Liahona and some years back they stopped publishing the "church almanac" or whatever it was that had the additional detailed information.

I certainly believe that they want to preserve time in general conference for more spiritual addresses but I also think that they are trying to phase out the reporting of numbers.  They might as well stop doing the useless audit report as well.

Share this post


Link to post
53 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I believe they have also stopped publishing it in the Ensign/Liahona and some years back they stopped publishing the "church almanac" or whatever it was that had the additional detailed information.

I certainly believe that they want to preserve time in general conference for more spiritual addresses but I also think that they are trying to phase out the reporting of numbers.  They might as well stop doing the useless audit report as well.

How can we tell?  They stopped reading it in conference in April 2018 and said it would be in the Ensign.  This is the first April since then and the Ensign conference edition hasn't been released yet, has it?

Edited by bluebell

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...