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Hype for April 2019 Conference

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I've intentionally waited a bit in order to increase the likelihood of preserving anonymity, but sometime in 2019 our stake received an unexpected visit from one of the presidents of the Seventy. It coincided with our stake conference, although we already had a member of the Seventy who had been assigned to preside (and who still attended). The senior authority told us when he arrived that it had been a last-minute assignment for him, so his portion of the adult session of conference was conducted entirely as a Q&A session. I groaned inside when he announced this, but then it turned out to be one of the highlights of his visit. I was so proud of our stake members for overwhelmingly asking really deep, meaningful questions.

This was a perfect opportunity for hype if this Seventy has wanted to do so. He didn't. One brother, however, did ask what we could look forward to in April General Conference. The Elder gave a really honest answer. He said he had no idea but that he sits on a committee with some of the apostles and that what is being discussed sometimes takes his breath away. He said that discussions, however, don't equal revelation, and that everything is subject to that.

He did mention that the Church is currently experimenting with online church services in some areas of the world where members are too few to congregate in person. I got the impression that they hold a sacrament service in the home and then hold a discussion using Come, Follow Me using something like Skype or Facetime.

He then concluded with something intriguing. He said that Pres Nelson has said that we've been known for too long as a faith that builds churches. Going forward, we will be the faith that builds temples. Make of that what you will.

I can't recall when it was but Elder Larry Wilson, the current Temple administrator gave an interview, maybe in 2016, or 2017? about the Church had plans or designs on 80 or so Temples being announced, but how many were serious I have no idea. In saying that though how Tuba City, California got a Temple before Mongolia, Ireland, Scotland and maybe some eastern European cities, I have no idea................. 

Edited by Duncan
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10 hours ago, pogi said:

What do you mean by "gender selection"?

If you think our biology is a perfect expression and representation of our spiritual gender (no "oops"), then what do you make of intersex people?

Is the Family Proclamation just quoting doctrine from the creation story?

We are mortal beings on a mortal planet. Natural laws/consequences determine situations like you reference.

Why would we limit God(s) if you will, to a narrow M or F checkbox? Seems unwise.

"Computer, is the Holy Ghost male or female?"

Computer: "the Holy Ghost does not have a body, therefore gender cannot be confirmed using genetic assessment, or the "pinch test""

 

 

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3 hours ago, Duncan said:

I can't recall when it was but Elder Larry Wilson, the current Temple administrator gave an interview, maybe in 2016, or 2017? about the Church had plans or designs on 80 or so Temples being announced, but how many were serious I have no idea. In saying that though how Tuba City, California got a Temple before Mongolia, Ireland, Scotland and maybe some eastern European cities, I have no idea................. 

It also seems like the list of temples in waiting or planning phase is growing. Perhaps a new direction, or what Temple 2.0/3.0 is going to look like is being discussed.

Maybe a new ceremony like the Festival of Colors at the Krishna temple that the BYU kids attend is in store.

event-featured-carudas-1515725093.jpeg

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I would suggest their will be more changes coming.   With home centered church supported teaching there is less need for seminary since kids are learning this at home and seminary is not being done at all or very limited in most countries.   Mutual is getting obsolete as well and will take a definite hit with the elimination of Boy Scouts

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Malietoa said:

With home centered church supported teaching there is less need for seminary since kids are learning this at home and seminary is not being done at all or very limited in most countries.   Mutual is getting obsolete as well and will take a definite hit with the elimination of Boy Scouts

Having a strong social support that gives kids greater chances to have committed members among their friends is a solid reason, imo, to continue both seminary and YW/YM.  Once a week interaction in a classroom as happens on Sunday is less likely to result in close friendships, in my experience.  If we wish to truly have a ward family and not a ward organization where we come and sit and nod at each other and shake hands, but know little else of lives, there needs to be created an expectation that a ward is a good source for close friendships...which probably is boosted if one grows up with close friends in one's ward or branch.

YW's has always managed to function without Boy Scouts.  Why would YM's be any different?

Edited by Calm
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35 minutes ago, Malietoa said:

I would suggest their will be more changes coming.   With home centered church supported teaching there is less need for seminary since kids are learning this at home and seminary is not being done at all or very limited in most countries.   Mutual is getting obsolete as well and will take a definite hit with the elimination of Boy Scouts

I'm not understanding your idea that Mutual is getting obsolete and will be even more so after BS is gone.  Can you explain what you mean?  Like Calm said, the YW don't do boy scouts and it doesn't negatively impact them on Mutual at all.

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On 3/13/2019 at 8:10 PM, Duncan said:

I can't recall when it was but Elder Larry Wilson, the current Temple administrator gave an interview, maybe in 2016, or 2017? about the Church had plans or designs on 80 or so Temples being announced, but how many were serious I have no idea. In saying that though how Tuba City, California got a Temple before Mongolia, Ireland, Scotland and maybe some eastern European cities, I have no idea................. 

I know that part of it has to do with the number of members with temple recommends in the area.  Temples take a lot of members to staff and run.

And also, some areas have too many members for the number of temples available and can't keep up with the demand.  In our area, each ward's youth gets to schedule 2 hours a year (that's split between the young men and young women) to do baptisms for the dead because the demand is too great.  When you do get in, you are lucky if each youth get's to do 3 names.

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Few items.  

1. Youth and Temple Baptisms. In the Salt Lake Valley now all the Temples are Walk In Only, no more large group appointments. Jordan River and Oquirrah (not sure on the rest) have two days a week for 4 hours set aside as Family Priority Time.  During family priority time families may make appointments and they get dressed right away, and then proceed to the font right away and will do 4 names regardless of type (some call this the Fast Pass like with Disneyland). During this time walk in patrons can come in but they will wait until all appointments are taken care of and their wait could be from an hour to two hours just to get their clothing. This was done because large group appointments would show up and there was an hour wait already for walk ins, and the large group then would take that up to a two hour plus wait.   There are on average depending on the Temple in the Salt Lake Valley, 1500 to 3500 more youth now attending the Temple per Temple with the move where 11 year old's who are deemed ready by their Bishop can now be ordained and/or attend the Temple. Also some of the newer Temples here in the Salt Lake Valley are seeing the growth of 1 to 2 stakes a year in their Temple Districts since they were dedicated. A good problem to have and overall more ordinances are completed and thus more work is done for those on the other side. 

 Names: the standard now for names are 4 Family File Names or 4 Shared Family File Names in Jordan River and Oquirrh Mountain Temples (the name now used for what some call Temple Names in the past).  If a chapel in the baptistery reaches a certain number of rows filled then  the Baptistery Coordinator moves to 3 names on Family File or Shared Family File which speeds up the process allowing for 1 to 2 more groups to process during a hour period. After confirmations patrons with Family File are invited to record their names in a recording office and if doing Shared Family File Names are also invited to record. The recording by the youth where they can in the names completes both ordinances and is a very spiritual opportunity for them to participate in.

Finally, a letter of changes from the First Presidency to Temple Presidents came out about two weeks ago or so that directed a prayer roll be added in the baptistery of the Temples for the youth to contribute to. Jordan River and Oquirrh I know have made these adjustments.  Also, no temple is taking large group appointments in the Salt Lake Valley because of the growth of youth and number of 11 year old's attending now. They are either all walk in or as shared, two days a week there is a Family Priority Time for 4 hours on each of those days for families to make appointments and attend as families. 

I will note this. We are seeing a fundamental shift in the Church of Jesus Christ from the Church of Jesus Christ centered position to truly the Home/Family Centered with Church Supported.  When it comes to appointments for those Temples following this direction, the Family Centered Time is exactly that, the time for families to attend, parent with children the Temple and participate in the work of the Lord.  The time for youth groups coming to perform baptisms is closing and the time for families to pick up their responsibility is here. Remember though that those without active or member parents and such are the responsibility of Ward Leaders to ensure they come to the Temple and are supported by a friend's family or a neighbor's family but it is not the responsibility of the Temples to arrange that. Local leadership on that one needs to coordinate with ministering brethren, sisters and friends of youth who may be disadvantage as they follow the Handbook, revelation through the Holy Ghost in fulfilling their calls. 

2. Rumors for General Conference April 2019

a) Word of Wisdom to be reviewed with an emphasis on electronic vaping (some say the tea and coffee will be removed as a formal part of the commandment which I do not see likely). 

b) Removal of Stake Callings leaving the Stake Presidency, High Council, Relief Society Presidency in place with a Executive Secretary and Stake Clerk (Finance and Membership) in place.  This frees up more people to serve within the Ward.  50/50 chance as it makes sense freeing people up for a Family Centered Approach and Church Supported. 

c) Fast & Testimony Meeting will be removed and replaced by personal or family based fasting as needed. I could accept this as a move to more home centered. Perhaps now two High Council Sundays? ;)

d) Temple Sealing. Couple's will have a civil ceremony that will be followed shortly afterwards by a Sealing Ceremony in the Temple.  There has been a change in Temple Procedures of late that I will not mention publicly, that may be viewed directly as supporting this.  For me I think this is a great idea as the Civil Ceremony would allow those not holding a Temple Recommend or members of The Church of Jesus Christ to witness the wedding and the reception that follows. Then the next day or two a sealing ceremony is performed in the Temple that allows a spiritual focus. 

e) More Temples (easy prediction) but I predict an announcement of another Temple in the SW portion of the Salt Lake Valley as growth out there is incredible. 

D is the one I would look for though because of changes announced recently to all Temple Workers in a Training by a Presidency Member. E is an easy prediction and we'll see on the Temple in the SW part of the Salt Lake Valley.  B maybe but I don't think so, may be an option for stakes spread out in the North America and other parts of the world.  A would not surprise me in terms of strengthening the Word of Wisdom and C I give as a 5% chance. We'll see.  

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, bluebell said:

I know that part of it has to do with the number of members with temple recommends in the area.  Temples take a lot of members to staff and run.

And also, some areas have too many members for the number of temples available and can't keep up with the demand.  In our area, each ward's youth gets to schedule 2 hours a year (that's split between the young men and young women) to do baptisms for the dead because the demand is too great.  When you do get in, you are lucky if each youth get's to do 3 names.

John Dehlin recently interviewed someone in the know and he said that oftentimes temple names are used over and over again in the endowment sessions because the system sometimes fails to see the repetitions. The baptisms for the dead are so few that you're right, they have to turn away those that want to do them because of running out of names. But hopefully I haven't butchered what he said. 

This is the introduction to the podcasts:

In this interview, we interview Don Anderson (Casias) regarding the 12+ years he worked as Sr. Vice President of Patron & Partner Services for FamilySearch for the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Topics we will discuss today include:

  • The process for name extraction, and the challenge to find enough names for temple work.
  • The use and occasional re-use of ordinance names for temple work.
  • The tendency to harvest names of famous people to do their temple work.
  • The controversy around the performance of ordinances for holocaust victims.
  • Concerns around the ability to prevent temple work from being done for those who do not desire the work.
  • The Mormon genealogy industry.
  • How FamilySearch handles the history of deceased church leaders.
  • His interactions with LDS apostles during his work there.
  • His own story/faith journey.
  • And much, much more!
Edited by Tacenda

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1 hour ago, Gapper said:

Few items.  

1. Youth and Temple Baptisms. In the Salt Lake Valley now all the Temples are Walk In Only, no more large group appointments. Jordan River and Oquirrah (not sure on the rest) have two days a week for 4 hours set aside as Family Priority Time.  During family priority time families may make appointments and they get dressed right away, and then proceed to the font right away and will do 4 names regardless of type (some call this the Fast Pass like with Disneyland). During this time walk in patrons can come in but they will wait until all appointments are taken care of and their wait could be from an hour to two hours just to get their clothing. This was done because large group appointments would show up and there was an hour wait already for walk ins, and the large group then would take that up to a two hour plus wait.   There are on average depending on the Temple in the Salt Lake Valley, 1500 to 3500 more youth now attending the Temple per Temple with the move where 11 year old's who are deemed ready by their Bishop can now be ordained and/or attend the Temple. Also some of the newer Temples here in the Salt Lake Valley are seeing the growth of 1 to 2 stakes a year in their Temple Districts since they were dedicated. A good problem to have and overall more ordinances are completed and thus more work is done for those on the other side. 

 Names: the standard now for names are 4 Family File Names or 4 Shared Family File Names in Jordan River and Oquirrh Mountain Temples (the name now used for what some call Temple Names in the past).  If a chapel in the baptistery reaches a certain number of rows filled then  the Baptistery Coordinator moves to 3 names on Family File or Shared Family File which speeds up the process allowing for 1 to 2 more groups to process during a hour period. After confirmations patrons with Family File are invited to record their names in a recording office and if doing Shared Family File Names are also invited to record. The recording by the youth where they can in the names completes both ordinances and is a very spiritual opportunity for them to participate in.

Finally, a letter of changes from the First Presidency to Temple Presidents came out about two weeks ago or so that directed a prayer roll be added in the baptistery of the Temples for the youth to contribute to. Jordan River and Oquirrh I know have made these adjustments.  Also, no temple is taking large group appointments in the Salt Lake Valley because of the growth of youth and number of 11 year old's attending now. They are either all walk in or as shared, two days a week there is a Family Priority Time for 4 hours on each of those days for families to make appointments and attend as families. 

I will note this. We are seeing a fundamental shift in the Church of Jesus Christ from the Church of Jesus Christ centered position to truly the Home/Family Centered with Church Supported.  When it comes to appointments for those Temples following this direction, the Family Centered Time is exactly that, the time for families to attend, parent with children the Temple and participate in the work of the Lord.  The time for youth groups coming to perform baptisms is closing and the time for families to pick up their responsibility is here. Remember though that those without active or member parents and such are the responsibility of Ward Leaders to ensure they come to the Temple and are supported by a friend's family or a neighbor's family but it is not the responsibility of the Temples to arrange that. Local leadership on that one needs to coordinate with ministering brethren, sisters and friends of youth who may be disadvantage as they follow the Handbook, revelation through the Holy Ghost in fulfilling their calls. 

2. Rumors for General Conference April 2019

a) Word of Wisdom to be reviewed with an emphasis on electronic vaping (some say the tea and coffee will be removed as a formal part of the commandment which I do not see likely). 

b) Removal of Stake Callings leaving the Stake Presidency, High Council, Relief Society Presidency in place with a Executive Secretary and Stake Clerk (Finance and Membership) in place.  This frees up more people to serve within the Ward.  50/50 chance as it makes sense freeing people up for a Family Centered Approach and Church Supported. 

c) Fast & Testimony Meeting will be removed and replaced by personal or family based fasting as needed. I could accept this as a move to more home centered. Perhaps now two High Council Sundays? ;)

d) Temple Sealing. Couple's will have a civil ceremony that will be followed shortly afterwards by a Sealing Ceremony in the Temple.  There has been a change in Temple Procedures of late that I will not mention publicly, that may be viewed directly as supporting this.  For me I think this is a great idea as the Civil Ceremony would allow those not holding a Temple Recommend or members of The Church of Jesus Christ to witness the wedding and the reception that follows. Then the next day or two a sealing ceremony is performed in the Temple that allows a spiritual focus. 

e) More Temples (easy prediction) but I predict an announcement of another Temple in the SW portion of the Salt Lake Valley as growth out there is incredible. 

D is the one I would look for though because of changes announced recently to all Temple Workers in a Training by a Presidency Member. E is an easy prediction and we'll see on the Temple in the SW part of the Salt Lake Valley.  B maybe but I don't think so, may be an option for stakes spread out in the North America and other parts of the world.  A would not surprise me in terms of strengthening the Word of Wisdom and C I give as a 5% chance. We'll see.  

The likelihood of #1 in my area makes me a little sad because I know that there are youth who likely won't end up with the opportunity to do baptisms if the responsibility is placed solely on the parents.  But, I'll also note that my current ward has 70 active youth and we've been given two 2-hour sessions in the temple for 2019.  With that many youth, it is tough to all fit into a single baptistry session but with only two ward opportunities for the year, it's a tough decision to try to split them up as well.  So I see the reasoning behind the direction (as well as the general trend of home centered church).

Regarding 2b, this would also seem consistent with the general direction of the Brethren.  As much as I have loved being able to sit in council with the stake YM presidency and work with them on our summer priesthood camp (and I'll sing the praises of our current stake YM presidency to anyone who will listen), it does seem like their role could be absorbed by the high council allowing those men to serve in their wards.  It's more burden on the HC though.

2c... I still love Fast and Testimony meeting.  I know there are rumors about it changing -- I hope it won't.  If it is removed, I think it would just be replaced by an additional Sunday of messages from ward members.  With the shortened meeting time, it is tough to give our youth the opportunities they ought to have to speak in sacrament meeting.

2d... This has been hoped/prayed for by many, including myself.  If it happens, that will be great.

 

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2 hours ago, Gapper said:

Few items.  

1. Youth and Temple Baptisms. In the Salt Lake Valley now all the Temples are Walk In Only, no more large group appointments. Jordan River and Oquirrah (not sure on the rest) have two days a week for 4 hours set aside as Family Priority Time.  During family priority time families may make appointments and they get dressed right away, and then proceed to the font right away and will do 4 names regardless of type (some call this the Fast Pass like with Disneyland). During this time walk in patrons can come in but they will wait until all appointments are taken care of and their wait could be from an hour to two hours just to get their clothing. This was done because large group appointments would show up and there was an hour wait already for walk ins, and the large group then would take that up to a two hour plus wait.   There are on average depending on the Temple in the Salt Lake Valley, 1500 to 3500 more youth now attending the Temple per Temple with the move where 11 year old's who are deemed ready by their Bishop can now be ordained and/or attend the Temple. Also some of the newer Temples here in the Salt Lake Valley are seeing the growth of 1 to 2 stakes a year in their Temple Districts since they were dedicated. A good problem to have and overall more ordinances are completed and thus more work is done for those on the other side. 

 Names: the standard now for names are 4 Family File Names or 4 Shared Family File Names in Jordan River and Oquirrh Mountain Temples (the name now used for what some call Temple Names in the past).  If a chapel in the baptistery reaches a certain number of rows filled then  the Baptistery Coordinator moves to 3 names on Family File or Shared Family File which speeds up the process allowing for 1 to 2 more groups to process during a hour period. After confirmations patrons with Family File are invited to record their names in a recording office and if doing Shared Family File Names are also invited to record. The recording by the youth where they can in the names completes both ordinances and is a very spiritual opportunity for them to participate in.

Finally, a letter of changes from the First Presidency to Temple Presidents came out about two weeks ago or so that directed a prayer roll be added in the baptistery of the Temples for the youth to contribute to. Jordan River and Oquirrh I know have made these adjustments.  Also, no temple is taking large group appointments in the Salt Lake Valley because of the growth of youth and number of 11 year old's attending now. They are either all walk in or as shared, two days a week there is a Family Priority Time for 4 hours on each of those days for families to make appointments and attend as families. 

I will note this. We are seeing a fundamental shift in the Church of Jesus Christ from the Church of Jesus Christ centered position to truly the Home/Family Centered with Church Supported.  When it comes to appointments for those Temples following this direction, the Family Centered Time is exactly that, the time for families to attend, parent with children the Temple and participate in the work of the Lord.  The time for youth groups coming to perform baptisms is closing and the time for families to pick up their responsibility is here. Remember though that those without active or member parents and such are the responsibility of Ward Leaders to ensure they come to the Temple and are supported by a friend's family or a neighbor's family but it is not the responsibility of the Temples to arrange that. Local leadership on that one needs to coordinate with ministering brethren, sisters and friends of youth who may be disadvantage as they follow the Handbook, revelation through the Holy Ghost in fulfilling their calls. 

2. Rumors for General Conference April 2019

a) Word of Wisdom to be reviewed with an emphasis on electronic vaping (some say the tea and coffee will be removed as a formal part of the commandment which I do not see likely). 

b) Removal of Stake Callings leaving the Stake Presidency, High Council, Relief Society Presidency in place with a Executive Secretary and Stake Clerk (Finance and Membership) in place.  This frees up more people to serve within the Ward.  50/50 chance as it makes sense freeing people up for a Family Centered Approach and Church Supported. 

c) Fast & Testimony Meeting will be removed and replaced by personal or family based fasting as needed. I could accept this as a move to more home centered. Perhaps now two High Council Sundays? ;)

d) Temple Sealing. Couple's will have a civil ceremony that will be followed shortly afterwards by a Sealing Ceremony in the Temple.  There has been a change in Temple Procedures of late that I will not mention publicly, that may be viewed directly as supporting this.  For me I think this is a great idea as the Civil Ceremony would allow those not holding a Temple Recommend or members of The Church of Jesus Christ to witness the wedding and the reception that follows. Then the next day or two a sealing ceremony is performed in the Temple that allows a spiritual focus. 

e) More Temples (easy prediction) but I predict an announcement of another Temple in the SW portion of the Salt Lake Valley as growth out there is incredible. 

D is the one I would look for though because of changes announced recently to all Temple Workers in a Training by a Presidency Member. E is an easy prediction and we'll see on the Temple in the SW part of the Salt Lake Valley.  B maybe but I don't think so, may be an option for stakes spread out in the North America and other parts of the world.  A would not surprise me in terms of strengthening the Word of Wisdom and C I give as a 5% chance. We'll see.  

 

 

 

I know they still do group reservations for baptisms in the Bountiful and Ogden temples (you just have to call months in advance) but maybe you weren’t including those in the SL valley. 

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I cannot speak on Bountiful or Ogden, I only know of Jordan River, Oquirrh Mountain, Draper and I believe Mt. Timp. but unclear on that.  What I do hope is they break ground for the Temple up in Layton (?) soon as it is needed there (we use to live in Clinton UT and have friends there still) and another in the Salt Lake Valley.  I could also see on going in out in Tooele/Stansbury Park area except there is a light pollution ordinance in Tooele Co. I believe that may impact that location (bright Temple in the middle of the night probably won't pass the light pollution ordinance).  Call your temples and see if they are taking large group reservations (you don't have to make one) and that will tell you or ask the next time you attend. 

In terms of civil marriage and then sealing, the First Presidency had Temple Presidencies train the Ordinance Workers on new procedures. ALL grooms and brides will have what use to be called a short veil before they go up to the sealing room.  In the past this only happened if both bride and groom were endowed before 14 days of their wedding. Now all will go through that procedure as of May 1st.  Seems a significant move that they will be announcing civil marriage and then sealing in conference.  I like it. As a convert at 18 (served a mission, married in the Logan Temple, raised our family in the Gospel kids served missions etc.) I would have loved a civil marriage where my mother (father is long deceased) and my two sisters could have been present. We could have done a reception that afternoon/evening then the next day had a personal, spiritual sealing (it was anyway) and then perhaps the same family luncheon we had anyway and then off we go. Also nice for family who do not hold a recommend. Love the compassion of it though I assume some will complain of the additional step. Could also mean couples have the option of a civil ceremony followed by a sealing or having the marriage/sealing in one step.  Choice is good and there is a lot of choices being allowed of late. 

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5 minutes ago, Gapper said:

I cannot speak on Bountiful or Ogden, I only know of Jordan River, Oquirrh Mountain, Draper and I believe Mt. Timp. but unclear on that.  What I do hope is they break ground for the Temple up in Layton (?) soon as it is needed there (we use to live in Clinton UT and have friends there still) and another in the Salt Lake Valley.  I could also see on going in out in Tooele/Stansbury Park area except there is a light pollution ordinance in Tooele Co. I believe that may impact that location (bright Temple in the middle of the night probably won't pass the light pollution ordinance).  Call your temples and see if they are taking large group reservations (you don't have to make one) and that will tell you or ask the next time you attend. 

I'm in Layton and have had to call those temples to try to get reservations for youth baptisms so that's why I'm knowledgable on those.  I have no idea about any others but I believe you when you say they aren't doing it anymore.  I agree that I can't wait until they break ground on the Layton temple.  Last I heard it will be soon but I'm not sure how much truth or rumor there is to that.  Everyone's already pretty certain where it will be but nothing has been confirmed that I know of.

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6 minutes ago, Gapper said:

I cannot speak on Bountiful or Ogden, I only know of Jordan River, Oquirrh Mountain, Draper and I believe Mt. Timp. but unclear on that.  What I do hope is they break ground for the Temple up in Layton (?) soon as it is needed there (we use to live in Clinton UT and have friends there still) and another in the Salt Lake Valley.  I could also see on going in out in Tooele/Stansbury Park area except there is a light pollution ordinance in Tooele Co. I believe that may impact that location (bright Temple in the middle of the night probably won't pass the light pollution ordinance).  Call your temples and see if they are taking large group reservations (you don't have to make one) and that will tell you or ask the next time you attend. 

In terms of civil marriage and then sealing, the First Presidency had Temple Presidencies train the Ordinance Workers on new procedures. ALL grooms and brides will have what use to be called a short veil before they go up to the sealing room.  In the past this only happened if both bride and groom were endowed before 14 days of their wedding. Now all will go through that procedure as of May 1st.  Seems a significant move that they will be announcing civil marriage and then sealing in conference.  I like it. As a convert at 18 (served a mission, married in the Logan Temple, raised our family in the Gospel kids served missions etc.) I would have loved a civil marriage where my mother (father is long deceased) and my two sisters could have been present. We could have done a reception that afternoon/evening then the next day had a personal, spiritual sealing (it was anyway) and then perhaps the same family luncheon we had anyway and then off we go. Also nice for family who do not hold a recommend. Love the compassion of it though I assume some will complain of the additional step. Could also mean couples have the option of a civil ceremony followed by a sealing or having the marriage/sealing in one step.  Choice is good and there is a lot of choices being allowed of late. 

I'm not understanding why you feel the change to having all brides/grooms go though a short veil indicates a separation of the civil marriage and sealing.  I don't want you to violate confidences or discuss temple ceremonies but maybe you could further elaborate on your personal reasoning as to why that could be an indicator of the change.

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6 minutes ago, Gapper said:

I cannot speak on Bountiful or Ogden, I only know of Jordan River, Oquirrh Mountain, Draper and I believe Mt. Timp. but unclear on that.  What I do hope is they break ground for the Temple up in Layton (?) soon as it is needed there (we use to live in Clinton UT and have friends there still) and another in the Salt Lake Valley.  I could also see on going in out in Tooele/Stansbury Park area except there is a light pollution ordinance in Tooele Co. I believe that may impact that location (bright Temple in the middle of the night probably won't pass the light pollution ordinance).  Call your temples and see if they are taking large group reservations (you don't have to make one) and that will tell you or ask the next time you attend. 

In terms of civil marriage and then sealing, the First Presidency had Temple Presidencies train the Ordinance Workers on new procedures. ALL grooms and brides will have what use to be called a short veil before they go up to the sealing room.  In the past this only happened if both bride and groom were endowed before 14 days of their wedding. Now all will go through that procedure as of May 1st.  Seems a significant move that they will be announcing civil marriage and then sealing in conference.  I like it. As a convert at 18 (served a mission, married in the Logan Temple, raised our family in the Gospel kids served missions etc.) I would have loved a civil marriage where my mother (father is long deceased) and my two sisters could have been present. We could have done a reception that afternoon/evening then the next day had a personal, spiritual sealing (it was anyway) and then perhaps the same family luncheon we had anyway and then off we go. Also nice for family who do not hold a recommend. Love the compassion of it though I assume some will complain of the additional step. Could also mean couples have the option of a civil ceremony followed by a sealing or having the marriage/sealing in one step.  Choice is good and there is a lot of choices being allowed of late. 

If a bishop marries someone in the chapel prior to being sealed in the temple, is that considered a "civil service" as well? Doesn't that happen sometimes now? Here in Mexico folks have to be married in front of a civil magistrate-type and then they go to the temple. 

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Just now, Navidad said:

If a bishop marries someone in the chapel prior to being sealed in the temple, is that considered a "civil service" as well? Doesn't that happen sometimes now? Here in Mexico folks have to be married in front of a civil magistrate-type and then they go to the temple. 

Yes, that's a civil service.  The current rules for the US are that if someone has a civil service first, they must wait a year before being able to be sealed in the temple.  If the law of the land requires a civil service first, then there is no mandatory waiting period.

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If you want to PM me, I'd explain but I am rather uncomfortable discussing the veil and what goes on there in public. Because now every couple will participate in what in the past was called a short veil ceremony before being sealed, it leads me to believe that there will be an option for a civil marriage prior to being sealed right after that ceremony. It may be in the US they give the option of a civil ceremony followed by a sealing with no 1 year wait. 

I am a convert of over 36 years now, served a mission and my wife and I were married in the Logan Temple. My mother did not attend as we lived in the Bay Area and she couldn't go there and to a reception in Washington where my wife is from. My older sister also did not come though she supported me. My younger sister did make the journey and waited outside with some of my wife's family who could not be there. IF we had had the option to do a civil ceremony that morning and then go to the Logan Temple that afternoon and be sealed we would have done it and my mother would have been there supporting her only son. As it was, it took time for her to finally come to terms to missing our wedding. With no choice, I made the right choice by marrying my wife in the Temple and would do it again, my commitment is to my Father in Heaven, my Savior and to her above all else. The civil ceremony and a sealing provides options that ease the tension and burden that not witness the marriage of their children by parents not holding a recommend or parents who are non-members have to bear. Hope this one is true. 

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In the past, if a bride went through the endowment prior to marriage, the groom to be would take her through the veil at the end of the endowment. Not happening anymore. Now the groom to be would go through the veil normally and the bride would go through normally.  Since all couples now do the short veil ceremony (name is changed now) on the day the get sealed, it seems to indicate that there will be an option for a civil ceremony with no 1 year wait, then go to the Temple later that day or the next, do the short veil ceremony and get sealed. It may just be an option and the other being short veil, sealing/marriage.  I think The Church of Jesus Christ is just allowing options for converts and those who do not hold recommends to see a civil ceremony and then for the couple to be sealed at the Temple either the same day or the next day, but I could be totally wrong. 

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33 minutes ago, Gapper said:

If you want to PM me, I'd explain but I am rather uncomfortable discussing the veil and what goes on there in public. Because now every couple will participate in what in the past was called a short veil ceremony before being sealed, it leads me to believe that there will be an option for a civil marriage prior to being sealed right after that ceremony. It may be in the US they give the option of a civil ceremony followed by a sealing with no 1 year wait. 

I am a convert of over 36 years now, served a mission and my wife and I were married in the Logan Temple. My mother did not attend as we lived in the Bay Area and she couldn't go there and to a reception in Washington where my wife is from. My older sister also did not come though she supported me. My younger sister did make the journey and waited outside with some of my wife's family who could not be there. IF we had had the option to do a civil ceremony that morning and then go to the Logan Temple that afternoon and be sealed we would have done it and my mother would have been there supporting her only son. As it was, it took time for her to finally come to terms to missing our wedding. With no choice, I made the right choice by marrying my wife in the Temple and would do it again, my commitment is to my Father in Heaven, my Savior and to her above all else. The civil ceremony and a sealing provides options that ease the tension and burden that not witness the marriage of their children by parents not holding a recommend or parents who are non-members have to bear. Hope this one is true. 

 

29 minutes ago, Gapper said:

In the past, if a bride went through the endowment prior to marriage, the groom to be would take her through the veil at the end of the endowment. Not happening anymore. Now the groom to be would go through the veil normally and the bride would go through normally.  Since all couples now do the short veil ceremony (name is changed now) on the day the get sealed, it seems to indicate that there will be an option for a civil ceremony with no 1 year wait, then go to the Temple later that day or the next, do the short veil ceremony and get sealed. It may just be an option and the other being short veil, sealing/marriage.  I think The Church of Jesus Christ is just allowing options for converts and those who do not hold recommends to see a civil ceremony and then for the couple to be sealed at the Temple either the same day or the next day, but I could be totally wrong. 

 

I understand the veil ceremony but am not seeing how you are connecting the dots for this to suggest allowing a civil marriage that is immediately followed by a sealing.

Twenty+ years ago I married (and was sealed to) my wife in the temple.   I had been endowed before leaving on my mission.  She went through the temple for her own endowment a number of weeks before our wedding date.  Then, on the day we were to be both married and sealed in the temple, my recollection is that we had a short veil ceremony right before our marriage/sealing.

What I understand you to be describing just seems like a procedural simplification.  But doesn't seem to do anything that would relate to the civil marriage policy in the US.  Don't get me wrong -- I really hope that you are correct, I just don't understand your logic on it.

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46 minutes ago, Gapper said:

In the past, if a bride went through the endowment prior to marriage, the groom to be would take her through the veil at the end of the endowment. Not happening anymore. Now the groom to be would go through the veil normally and the bride would go through normally.  Since all couples now do the short veil ceremony (name is changed now) on the day the get sealed, it seems to indicate that there will be an option for a civil ceremony with no 1 year wait, then go to the Temple later that day or the next, do the short veil ceremony and get sealed. It may just be an option and the other being short veil, sealing/marriage.  I think The Church of Jesus Christ is just allowing options for converts and those who do not hold recommends to see a civil ceremony and then for the couple to be sealed at the Temple either the same day or the next day, but I could be totally wrong. 

I would like to see this happen. I still remember seeing my FIL's face as we exited the temple. He had the biggest smile and cheers the loudest, even though he couldn't attend with us. 

The pessimist in me doesn't see this happening... 

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18 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Picard said:

I would like to see this happen. I still remember seeing my FIL's face as we exited the temple. He had the biggest smile and cheers the loudest, even though he couldn't attend with us. 

The pessimist in me doesn't see this happening... 

I see it happening... at some point.  It's a matter of policy with no real doctrinal basis, so it could change easily.

I don't see it being announced in conference, however.  General Conference is a global event and this 1-year wait policy only affects a few countries.  For example, Argentina requires civil marriage and there is no wait for couples wanting to be sealed.  So, if you were to make an announcement in General Conference about removing the 1-year wait, church members in Argentina would just be confused.

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10 hours ago, rockpond said:

I see it happening... at some point.  It's a matter of policy with no real doctrinal basis, so it could change easily.

I don't see it being announced in conference, however.  General Conference is a global event and this 1-year wait policy only affects a few countries.  For example, Argentina requires civil marriage and there is no wait for couples wanting to be sealed.  So, if you were to make an announcement in General Conference about removing the 1-year wait, church members in Argentina would just be confused.

Agreed.

I'll be quite surprised if this isn't changed within the next couple of years.

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President Nelson isn't a fool.  He understands that members get too relaxed in their devotion without periodic changes, rumors and announcements.  How much higher would church attendance be if he hinted that the 2nd coming was coming sooner than we think?  How many of us have been told that the Savior will come again in our lifetimes?  My dad was told that in an interview with his mission president.  He died 2 years ago.

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I had a friend get his mission call recently and in the letter it said that the length of his mission will be announced in the upcoming gen con. 

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