Hype for April 2019 Conference

[MustardSeed]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Hence the suggestion to “look again.” Why even bring up the point unless you’re fairly certain Utah is one of few states if not the only state that has them?

The original thought of mine that spurred this thread of conversation was associated with the word of wisdom.  IN MY OPINION the word of wisdom is all about treating the body with respect, and about best health practices. I think in reality, we tend to be an exercise in conflict because we IMO have a lot of tendencies that fly in the face of those principles, three of which being caffeine, sugar and plastic surgery. I don’t care if you engage in these activities, because I do. I find it odd that for non members IMO one of our defining characteristics is that we don’t drink coffee.  Why? “ It’s not for the body “, God said.  But an extreme surgery for appearance is a non issue to The Church.  It “feels” ingenuine TO ME .  (I don’t like to capitalize because I’m soft spoken and don’t yell in real life and I realize it looks like yelling. ) 

Again.... I apologize for throwing people off here my giving an off handed opinion (Utah is a perfection hub) without stats to back.  This type of statement is typically something I would offhandedly say to a circle of friends without such debate. I forgot where I was.

Edited March 23, 2019 by MustardSeed

[MustardSeed]

25 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Her point might have been that Utah, home to so many members of the church, should be one of the last places where women are vain about their appearance (including that if their vagina). 

I think it’s a relevant point (while acknowledging that there are medical reasons that a vaginal rejuvenation might be needed). 

Indeed. 

For the stat curious: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5560421/

 

Speaking of April Conference, does anyone think that cosmetic vaginal rejuvenation surgeries will be addressed? Lol

Anyway, I have rudely digressed again.  My true point is, I don’t think the scriptural wording will EVER be taken off the table .  Folks that is my opinion based on zero stats.  I do think an emphasis will be stated at some point if not April that non prescribed MJ and vapes are fat sins and that they will preempt temple recommends.  

[Kenngo1969]

39 minutes ago, bluebell said:

There’s one in Layton along the freeway. My husband and I laugh at it every time we go by. 

To be fair though, it’s not just done for cosmetic purposes. It can also be needed for corrective procedures (often caused by child birth) such as incontinence. 

Silly Bluebell!  You're interfering with the dominant (only valid?) narrative that the only reason for plastic surgery is vanity, everyone knows that Utahns are among the vainest people in the world (on the planet?), and that, therefore, Utah is unusually populated with an overabundance of plastic surgeons!

Get with the program!  

 

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Silly Bluebell!  You're interfering with the dominant (only valid?) narrative that the only reason for plastic surgery is vanity, everyone knows that Utahns are among the vainest people in the world (on the planet?), and that, therefore, Utah is unusually populated with an overabundance of plastic surgeons!

Get with the program!  

 

Well, to be honest it was one of the first things I noticed when moving here, the focus on cosmetic surgery that didn’t exist in the four other states I’ve lived in.

That’s why I think Mustard Seed’s point was valid, even though I don’t think that cosmetic surgery is necessarily sinful.  Low self esteem and a preoccupation with appearance as a way to feel better about ourselves can be a weakness, and I believe that God is merciful with our weaknesses. 

[MustardSeed]

It’s ok.  Kenngo  has beef with me and I think that’s showing up in this conversation too.  I understand. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by MustardSeed

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Silly Bluebell!  You're interfering with the dominant (only valid?) narrative that the only reason for plastic surgery is vanity, everyone knows that Utahns are among the vainest people in the world (on the planet?), and that, therefore, Utah is unusually populated with an overabundance of plastic surgeons!

Get with the program!  

 

I don't think LDS women are vain. I do know many women that have had plastic surgery though. I'm related to one that had breast implants because one boob was not the same as the other as far as size and it bothered her and helped her self esteem to get the surgery.

And another relative that had plastic surgery on her face and neck area, and very TBM. But this doesn't bother me in the slightest. And I believe many LDS women who give birth to many babies have body issues because it can wreck havoc.

And last but not least we need to get in men's heads to love their wives for who they are. I even have a husband that is too worried about how much I weigh. And it's only making the situation worse because he's always worried if I ran on the treadmill, or comparing me to my very fit sisters in California, one of which is a personal trainer and marathon runner and eight years older than me, and looks younger than me, haha.

So these messages need to stop IMO. Maybe it is church messages as well. Because sometimes in talks the leaders will comment on looks. And grooming etc. Or women need to wear a little lipstick, Pres. Ballard, etc. But no biggie.

Edit: Just ran across this KSL article. It appears to me that in Utah there just may be a vain problem, or keeping up with the Jones. Or actually, women tend to dress for each other on occasion just to fit in. So not a vain problem or is a vain problem mixed in with insecurities and the need to be accepted. 

https://www.ksl.com/article/19769678/utah-women-share-feelings-about-having-cosmetic-surgery

C/P'd because sometimes people don't like clicking on links. But the below are a few of the many that were interviewed that are pretty telling...

“I had been married to a verbally and physically abusive man who had told me I looked like a boy when I was naked. I had given birth to two children, and my breasts had lost some volume from that, but also from weight loss in general due to all the marital stress I was under,” said Claire, now 40, from Salt Lake City. “Upon divorcing him, I elected to get breast augmentation surgery to boost my self-esteem. I never had a problem with body image before that abusive relationship. Before I had kids, I was pretty perfect in my opinion.”

“I had saddlebags: I had to buy pants a size bigger and have my (pants) waists taken in just to fit my thighs. Honestly, it was a huge issue for me; I thought about it every single time I got dressed or went shopping,” said Deborah, 32, who lives in Ogden but is from the East Coast. “(In my home state I would think) I have to dress to hide this, it’s nothing horrible; I can deal with it. Then I moved out here, where there are a lot more young people. I’ve never seen so many people with perfect makeup and hair.”

Four of the five women interviewed referred to a culture of image or perfection in Utah. Becky, who grew up in Hawaii and is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as are all of these women, observed, “Utah has its own culture; everything here is different. There’s Utah hair, the Bumpits (plastic hair inserts). They all wear the same thing, they wear the same jeans, the same clothes. I’m (even) seeing it with my (12-year-old) daughter’s classmates.”

“I’ve been a member of the (LDS) Church my whole life,” Deborah said. “It seems like (in Utah) at church it’s all about appearance; back (East), church was a place to go because you need that peace. Here it’s because it’s a social club, everyone in your neighborhood goes. It was a huge culture shock when I moved here. No one (at home) had Bumpits. We were trying to get our hair to sit down.”

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Tacenda

[Ceecee]

I’ve heard my SIL’s friend’s son who got their mission call, the time period said “TBA”- the rumor is there will be a shorter or more flexible service time offered. 

I’ve also heard there might be something about the word of wisdom, possibly leaving it open to one’s interpretation when it comes to coffee. 

This comes from a mission presidents wife. 

 

 

[MustardSeed]

Lots of reasons to get surgery. 

Lots of reasons to take oxy. 

Lots of reasons to drink caffeine. 

Reasons. That’s why. And im ok with all of it. We are inconsistent.  That is my deal. 

[bluebell]

51 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I don't think LDS women are vain. I do know many women that have had plastic surgery though. I'm related to one that had breast implants because one boob was not the same as the other as far as size and it bothered her and helped her self esteem to get the surgery.

And another relative that had plastic surgery on her face and neck area, and very TBM. But this doesn't bother me in the slightest. And I believe many LDS women who give birth to many babies have body issues because it can wreck havoc.

And last but not least we need to get in men's heads to love their wives for who they are. I even have a husband that is too worried about how much I weigh. And it's only making the situation worse because he's always worried if I ran on the treadmill, or comparing me to my very fit sisters in California, one of which is a personal trainer and marathon runner and eight years older than me, and looks younger than me, haha.

So these messages need to stop IMO. Maybe it is church messages as well. Because sometimes in talks the leaders will comment on looks. And grooming etc. Or women need to wear a little lipstick, Pres. Ballard, etc. But no biggie. 

Amen sister.

[TaylorM]

On 3/21/2019 at 3:13 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Exactly!

We had a man who got baptised in our ward about five years ago. He drank alcohol occasionally but consumed vast quantities of both tea and coffee and also smoked. After he was baptised, he did the sums and realised that by living the Word of Wisdom and paying tithing, he'd come out financially ahead.

When I was studying in America, one of my classmates did the sums and realised he was paying nearly $6,000 p.a. just on takeaway coffee -- an amount equal to an entire semester's course fees.

As I've often said -- and genuinely feel! -- every commandment is a gift.

 

This is the problem with cultural Mormonism, we feel we are better than others just based on the word of wisdom. Joseph Smith and Brigham young were both habitual drinkers of alcohol, and Joseph Smith sr was a documented alcoholic. They were still good people. Alcohol, tea and coffee are not bad for you if consumed in moderation. 

I think everyone can agree that the Q15 should swap all three beverages for energy drinks. Or better yet, don’t base your salvation on whether you drink coffee or tea (both natural plant based drinks), or alcohol. 

Honestly who are we to judge what people drink. The McConkie days of the church are done. Millennials google questions to which they don’t have answers, they don’t run to their lay-bishops like the Boomers did. 

I hope we as Mormons can shy away from mindsets like in the comments above. Believe me, people do not spend more on coffee than they would on tithing, this is dangerous rhetoric and a magnification of Utah elitist Mormonism. 

[Bernard Gui]

20 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

Hello MS...

In the supermarket, the fresh ground coffee isle is something I try to avoid... the aroma is so delicious, and reminds me of my "inactive" days when one of my favorite things was a strong black coffee accompanied by a King Alphonse up... Yikes!

GG

I avoid the coffee isles too, but for the opposite reason. I have never understood the attraction. I can’t stand the smell or taste. Teacher lounges reeked of it when I taught school, so I often avoided going in. Coffee breath is the worst. Coffee flavors in candy and ice cream are repulsive. When my dad joined the church, he gave up smoking and drinking cold turkey, but coffee was very hard for him to quit. On the other hand, I love the smell of many pipe tobaccos.

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, TaylorM said:

 

This is the problem with cultural Mormonism, we feel we are better than others just based on the word of wisdom. Joseph Smith and Brigham young were both habitual drinkers of alcohol, and Joseph Smith sr was a documented alcoholic. They were still good people. Alcohol, tea and coffee are not bad for you if consumed in moderation. 

I think everyone can agree that the Q15 should swap all three beverages for energy drinks. Or better yet, don’t base your salvation on whether you drink coffee or tea (both natural plant based drinks), or alcohol. 

Honestly who are we to judge what people drink. The McConkie days of the church are done. Millennials google questions to which they don’t have answers, they don’t run to their lay-bishops like the Boomers did. 

I hope we as Mormons can shy away from mindsets like in the comments above. Believe me, people do not spend more on coffee than they would on tithing, this is dangerous rhetoric and a magnification of Utah elitist Mormonism. 

Are you saying Hamba isn’t being honest? (For what it’s worth, he’s not in Utah. I believe he lives somewhere in the South Pacific on an island). 

[Bernard Gui]

9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Hence the suggestion to “look again.” Why even bring up the point unless you’re fairly certain Utah is one of few states if not the only state that has them?

And the assumption that if something happens in Utah it must  be because of the Mormons. 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Her point might have been that Utah, home to so many members of the church, should be one of the last places where women are vain about their appearance (including that if their vagina). 

I think it’s a relevant point (while acknowledging that there are medical reasons that a vaginal rejuvenation might be needed). 

Is there evidence that Mormon women are the primary users of those services?

Edited March 23, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Is there evidence that Mormon women are the primary users of those services?

Probably just anecdotal. Utah is the fifth state I’ve lived in. Out of those states it has the highest percentage of members and also the most emphasis on plastic surgery. 

 

[Tacenda]

17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I avoid the coffee isles too, but for the opposite reason. I have never understood the attraction. I can’t stand the smell or taste. Teacher lounges reeked of it when I taught school, so I often avoided going in. Coffee breath is the worst. Coffee flavors in candy and ice cream are repulsive. When my dad joined the church, he gave up smoking and drinking cold turkey, but coffee was very hard for him to quit. On the other hand, I love the smell of many pipe tobaccos.

Now with my differing views in the church, I ordered some coffee that is infused with supplements and supposedly good for you. I have a one-cup cheap coffee maker. I tried it and had to throw it down the sink it was so bad. I will have to drink it slowly. But when I threw away the little filter I made to make it work, it stunk up my house so much. 

My father drank coffee and wore garments, haha, but he drank it for his chronic back pain stemming from an accident in his youth. I use to love the smell it gave off in our home in my young adult years. And once in a while I'd sneak a cup from his old coffee pot that sat on top of the stove, not a fancy coffee maker. And I'd drink it black, lol! It got me going in the morning and my typing speed was so fast in 1st period in high school, lol. My dad told me while I was young that coffee would turn my knees black. Don't know where he came up with that! 

My dad was told he had to drink decaf coffee in order to renew his recommend and attend my temple marriage. But he soon changed back to caffeinated. He basically went to church for my mother, and sometimes it was too painful because of the hard bench in our chapel at the time. He was sealed to my mother in the Manti temple. I believe he had a testimony. But he needed his coffee I guess.

I'm just wondering why I can't get use to the taste or smell now? Since even my oldest son asked me to try coffee instead of my addiction to Diet Dr. Pepper. But I can't do it, and I think tea would be better. But still can't do that either. Just my darn pop!

[TaylorM]

I don’t contend his honesty, I contend the macro state of mind found in Utah Elitism. It seems as if his comments are sincere. 

Also, for those  new to Mormonism, Utah Elitism is not geographically confined, it is found in almost every meetinghouse across the globe. 

Hope that clears up my comments

[Jeanne]

28 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Now with my differing views in the church, I ordered some coffee that is infused with supplements and supposedly good for you. I have a one-cup cheap coffee maker. I tried it and had to throw it down the sink it was so bad. I will have to drink it slowly. But when I threw away the little filter I made to make it work, it stunk up my house so much. 

My father drank coffee and wore garments, haha, but he drank it for his chronic back pain stemming from an accident in his youth. I use to love the smell it gave off in our home in my young adult years. And once in a while I'd sneak a cup from his old coffee pot that sat on top of the stove, not a fancy coffee maker. And I'd drink it black, lol! It got me going in the morning and my typing speed was so fast in 1st period in high school, lol. My dad told me while I was young that coffee would turn my knees black. Don't know where he came up with that! 

My dad was told he had to drink decaf coffee in order to renew his recommend and attend my temple marriage. But he soon changed back to caffeinated. He basically went to church for my mother, and sometimes it was too painful because of the hard bench in our chapel at the time. He was sealed to my mother in the Manti temple. I believe he had a testimony. But he needed his coffee I guess.

I'm just wondering why I can't get use to the taste or smell now? Since even my oldest son asked me to try coffee instead of my addiction to Diet Dr. Pepper. But I can't do it, and I think tea would be better. But still can't do that either. Just my darn pop!

I don't dislike coffee...love the smell and if I am in a restaurant for breakfast , I will just order it black.  But like you....give me a diet coke with a lemon and i am a happy camper.  I do like hot coffee when I am sick with a bad cold...it just helps...go figure.  Anything in moderation  is not a bad thing.  Anxious for my son to try that  CBD oil for his back problems.

[Avatar4321]

 Maybe some people are vain,  Maybe they aren’t. Maybe some people are elitist, maybe they aren’t.

Maybe we should concern ourselves less judging people for what they are and more with loving them for who they are.

 Maybe we should worry less about whether they’re hypocrites and more  working to make sure we aren’t. Maybe we should worry less about their inconsistencies and worry more about our own.

 

 

 

[Teancum]

On 3/21/2019 at 3:55 PM, Jenn5790 said:

j Golden Kimble drank coffee just to let you know

That was before the time Heber J Grant made the WoW a commandment and worthiness requirement rather than revelation "To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint....."

[let’s roll]

1 hour ago, TaylorM said:

 

This is the problem with cultural Mormonism, we feel we are better than others just based on the word of wisdom. Joseph Smith and Brigham young were both habitual drinkers of alcohol, and Joseph Smith sr was a documented alcoholic. They were still good people. Alcohol, tea and coffee are not bad for you if consumed in moderation. 

I think everyone can agree that the Q15 should swap all three beverages for energy drinks. Or better yet, don’t base your salvation on whether you drink coffee or tea (both natural plant based drinks), or alcohol. 

Honestly who are we to judge what people drink. The McConkie days of the church are done. Millennials google questions to which they don’t have answers, they don’t run to their lay-bishops like the Boomers did. 

I hope we as Mormons can shy away from mindsets like in the comments above. Believe me, people do not spend more on coffee than they would on tithing, this is dangerous rhetoric and a magnification of Utah elitist Mormonism. 

I respectfully disagree with your characterization of Hamba’s post.  The characterizations in your post are yours, not his.  

I’d invite you to go to his profile, read enough of his posts to convince yourself your judgments may have been misguided, and if you feel so inclined, let him know that.

Having read hundreds of his post, I’m confident he’ll respond by saying something like, “no worries mate.”

[Kenngo1969]

14 minutes ago, Teancum said:

That was before the time Heber J Grant made the WoW a commandment and worthiness requirement rather than revelation "To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint....."

Yes, it was.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, TaylorM said:

I don’t contend his honesty, I contend the macro state of mind found in Utah Elitism. It seems as if his comments are sincere. 

Also, for those  new to Mormonism, Utah Elitism is not geographically confined, it is found in almost every meetinghouse across the globe. 

Hope that clears up my comments

Hamba said, "After he was baptized, he did the sums and realized that by living the Word of Wisdom and paying tithing, he'd come out financially ahead."

You said, "Believe me, people do not spend more on coffee than they would on tithing, this is dangerous rhetoric and a magnification of Utah elitist Mormonism." 

Why we should believe your words, and not Hamba's? (i'm not trying to be snarky or argumentative.  It's a sincere question.  We've known Hamba through this board for many years.  We don't know you at all.  Why should we believe you and not him?) 

I'm also not sure how claiming that Hamba's statement is 'dangerous rhetoric' that we shouldn't believe isn't calling into question his honesty?

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, TaylorM said:

 

This is the problem with cultural Mormonism, we feel we are better than others just based on the word of wisdom. Joseph Smith and Brigham young were both habitual drinkers of alcohol, and Joseph Smith sr was a documented alcoholic. They were still good people. Alcohol, tea and coffee are not bad for you if consumed in moderation. 

I think everyone can agree that the Q15 should swap all three beverages for energy drinks. Or better yet, don’t base your salvation on whether you drink coffee or tea (both natural plant based drinks), or alcohol. 

Honestly who are we to judge what people drink. The McConkie days of the church are done. Millennials google questions to which they don’t have answers, they don’t run to their lay-bishops like the Boomers did. 

I hope we as Mormons can shy away from mindsets like in the comments above. Believe me, people do not spend more on coffee than they would on tithing, this is dangerous rhetoric and a magnification of Utah elitist Mormonism. 

I think your post exactly reflects

words of wisdom! Good job!

[Bernard Gui]

On 3/23/2019 at 10:23 AM, TaylorM said:

I don’t contend his honesty, I contend the macro state of mind found in Utah Elitism. It seems as if his comments are sincere. 

Also, for those  new to Mormonism, Utah Elitism is not geographically confined, it is found in almost every meetinghouse across the globe. 

Hope that clears up my comments

Having been around quite a bit, I don't begrudge the Utah LDS their "elitism." Some of the greatest people I know grew up, live, or moved in from Utah.

There is no doubt they were the mainstay of the Restoration for a century. My hat's off to them for that.

In some places they have been godsends to struggling wards. I can deal with the rest. We're human, after all.

If you want to experience elitism try living near Seattle.

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Bernard Gui