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Hype for April 2019 Conference


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10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

You just can't restrain the ebullient hope of a 'progressive Mormon' who has convinced her-/himself that the Church's long-awaited reform is imminent.

"long-awaited"?  I'm not sure what you are referring to here because the church and its teachings (from the leaders and Prophets) have been evolving and changing all along....from the beginning.  I see no reason to believe that will stop now.

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1 hour ago, reubendunn1 said:

One would have thought that the Proclomation on the Family provided the “clarity” on gender.

I'll elaborate:

The Family proclamation speaks to opposite sex marriage along with their roles and responsibilities.  It doesn't really go beyond that.

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1 minute ago, ALarson said:

"long-awaited"?  I'm not sure what you are referring to here because the church and its teachings (from the leaders and Prophets) have been evolving and changing all along....from the beginning.  I see no reason to believe that will stop now.

Agreed... we've got almost 200 years of reform "under our belt" now.  No reason that it should stop and every indication that it might speed up.

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1 hour ago, reubendunn1 said:

One would have thought that the Proclomation on the Family provided the “clarity” on gender.

Except science.  How about the unexplained? 

Couple  in my ward a few years ago was having trouble conceiving.  Got checked, turns out she had an X and a Y .  The Y never “switched on”.  I’ve poured over the proclamation for clarity but by golly I’m just not seeing it

Edited by MustardSeed
Toning down my attitude
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13 minutes ago, rockpond said:

When I was in middle school (Phoenix, not the Mormon-dense area of Mesa/Gilbert) I confessed to my Bishop that I drank Pepsi when it was offered to me.  His response:  If someone offered you a beer, would you drink that?  In consequence, I swore off caffeinated drinks.  Until my mission... it was in my first area, probably on my first day -- lunch at an investigator's house: She served us Pepsi with lunch (I find it funny that it was Pepsi again as I am now a Diet Coke drinker).  At first I declined but my trainer indicated that I should accept it.  He later explained that the water from their home would not have been good to drink and that it was okay if I drank caffeinated beverages.

When pop was called as Bishop he was instructed to shave his beard and stop drinking coke. 

These *policies* get trickled down. 

There are many many subtle messages which shape our behavior.  ***OPINION ALERT***

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

When I was in middle school (Phoenix, not the Mormon-dense area of Mesa/Gilbert) I confessed to my Bishop that I drank Pepsi when it was offered to me.  His response:  If someone offered you a beer, would you drink that?  In consequence, I swore off caffeinated drinks.  Until my mission... it was in my first area, probably on my first day -- lunch at an investigator's house: She served us Pepsi with lunch (I find it funny that it was Pepsi again as I am now a Diet Coke drinker).  At first I declined but my trainer indicated that I should accept it.  He later explained that the water from their home would not have been good to drink and that it was okay if I drank caffeinated beverages.

That's insane to me.  I feel like we are probably around the same age and drinking pepsi or coke was not a big deal at all where I grew up in the church (though, we of course never had it served at any church functions :lol:).

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57 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That's insane to me.  I feel like we are probably around the same age and drinking pepsi or coke was not a big deal at all where I grew up in the church (though, we of course never had it served at any church functions :lol:).

Drinking coke wasn't a big deal where I grew up. We did have some members move in from Utah and they delighted in making a big deal about only drinking caffeine free soda.  I would cheers them with my Mt Dew and smile.   

I am a dr pepper girl now. 

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19 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

You didn't ask me, but I've been thinking about this, and I've only been able to come up with one thing: early morning seminary. I'd love to see a more workable replacement.

I'd also love to stop having stake presidency meeting at 6am every Sunday, but that's a local choice and one I seem incapable of shifting.

Persuasion and long suffering is effective. I would worry about praying to much to have power to change that or you may get your wish and Be called to be the stake president 

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13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Thank you for that insight. I pray that I will have a similar one one day. 

On an intellectual level, if not quite a spiritual level, I can see how fasting could be an instrument for deliverance, in which case I think I too might come to view it as a delight. 

Best way to develop that view is by doing it

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10 hours ago, ALarson said:

I'm not sure what you are referring to here because the church and its teachings (from the leaders and Prophets) have been evolving and changing all along....from the beginning.  I see no reason to believe that will stop now.

I don't think anyone is contending that the Church grows and changes over time. But some people are happy for that to happy as the Lord directs (as they see it), and others have a list of grievances they really need to be addressed by future changes. From my vantage point, the second option seems very tiring.

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1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

I would worry about praying to much to have power to change that or you may get your wish and Be called to be the stake president 

Thankfully, that is an impossibility ... unless the next change announced is that unmarried men can serve as stake presidents. :shok:

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3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I don't think anyone is contending that the Church grows and changes over time. But some people are happy for that to happy as the Lord directs (as they see it), and others have a list of grievances they really need to be addressed by future changes. From my vantage point, the second option seems very tiring.

And tiresome to some of us who observe it. 

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On 3/7/2019 at 5:56 PM, rockpond said:

I think it is inconsistent with our teachings to suggest that members should just wait for things to happen when we should be anxiously engaged.

Trusting that the Lord directs the work isn't necessarily the same thing as 'just waiting for things to happen'. Pray all you want, mate. The Lord will answer your prayers in His wisdom.

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53 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Trusting that the Lord directs the work isn't necessarily the same thing as 'just waiting for things to happen'. Pray all you want, mate. The Lord will answer your prayers in His wisdom.

In the examples I provided, people did more than pray. 

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On 3/6/2019 at 8:04 AM, rockpond said:

I'll elaborate:

The Family proclamation speaks to opposite sex marriage along with their roles and responsibilities.  It doesn't really go beyond that.

 

Well,  the first few paragphs stated:
 

"ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

"IN THE PREMORTAL REALM, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshipped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life." 

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5 minutes ago, reubendunn1 said:

 

Well,  the first few paragphs stated:
 

"ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

"IN THE PREMORTAL REALM, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshipped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life." 

I find it hard to believe that somehow, in the pre-mortal existance an "oops" occured that allowed the a femail spirit to go into a male body. Gender identification is rather clear, from a Gospel perspective, the first two paragraphs of the Proclamation are rather clear on this; even more clear are the statements about gender identity made over the past decade. 

We have ended up in an era where we, as a society, have ended up not wanting to "offend" anyone. We'd rather go with the flow and not say anything that might "offend", even if that means remaining mute when in the past voices from the Lord were heard. 

Gender selection does not begin with the X/Y chromosome, although science would suggest otherwise.

From a Restoration perspective, that selection was known prior to this life. 


 

 

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12 minutes ago, reubendunn1 said:

 

Well,  the first few paragphs stated:
 

"ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

"IN THE PREMORTAL REALM, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshipped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life." 

 

2 minutes ago, reubendunn1 said:

I find it hard to believe that somehow, in the pre-mortal existance an "oops" occured that allowed the a femail spirit to go into a male body. Gender identification is rather clear, from a Gospel perspective, the first two paragraphs of the Proclamation are rather clear on this; even more clear are the statements about gender identity made over the past decade. 

We have ended up in an era where we, as a society, have ended up not wanting to "offend" anyone. We'd rather go with the flow and not say anything that might "offend", even if that means remaining mute when in the past voices from the Lord were heard. 

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really understand those who identify as transgender.  But I'm not willing to dismiss their claims either.  And then there are hermaphrodites (those born with both genitalia).

 

18 minutes ago, reubendunn1 said:

Gender selection does not begin with the X/Y chromosome, although science would suggest otherwise.

And it seems that those who are transgender would likely agree with this perspective... they feel that regardless of the physical gender that they were born into, their spirit or soul is a different gender.

 

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49 minutes ago, reubendunn1 said:

Gender selection does not begin with the X/Y chromosome, although science would suggest otherwise

What do you mean by "gender selection"?

Quote

I find it hard to believe that somehow, in the pre-mortal existance an "oops" occured that allowed the a femail spirit to go into a male body. Gender identification is rather clear, from a Gospel perspective, the first two paragraphs of the Proclamation are rather clear on this; even more clear are the statements about gender identity made over the past decade. 

If you think our biology is a perfect expression and representation of our spiritual gender (no "oops"), then what do you make of intersex people?

Edited by pogi
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