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Evolution


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3 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said:

So, if scientists create life from non-life in a laboratory, will you tear up your bible and build a Darwinian finch shrine? Or will you come up with another feat of strength for the biologists to perform?

Because dna, phylogeny, the fossil record, ring species, etc. are all evidence of evolution.

What is your theory of how life arrived in its present state? Is it just a verbatim retelling genesis 1? If so then please supply some evidence of your theory too. I wouldn’t want to hog all the good times

Do you consider viruses to be living?  How about bacterias?  There is a progression from primitive RNAs to higher forms.  At what point does an organism become life?  How do you define life?  When death occurs, why does a life form seem to shut down and start to decay within a short period of time?  Is it because the spirit leaves the body?

For the evolutionist, DNA has to evolve from primitive RNAs.  But the evolutionist cannot believe in the spirit component and cannot account for the development of spirit entities.  Is the brain sufficiently complex in higher life forms for it to have sentience and self awareness?  Or does it require a spirit to interface with the brain?  As Brigham Young stated, the spirit entity is required for "quickening" the physical body.

I am convinced that evolution cannot give rise from simple life forms to higher life forms.  I believe there are NO evidence of interspecies change.  The evolutionist say evolution is a fact.  I say regardless of what "fact" is presented, it is possible to have more than one interpretation or narrative about it.  This is why I have repeatedly said that scientists should be able to prove evolution by experimenting with primitive RNAs.  Maybe even create computer models to show how the progression could have developed.

My theory of the origin of life?  I believe the "intelligences" have always existed and dwell in a multi-dimensional universe.  7 dimensions, 24 dimensions?  We will know on the other side of the veil.  I believe those intelligences could have assembled physical components to organize biological machines.  First at the spiritual level and then moved themselves to occupy clay tabernacles.  I know that the church teaches there was no beginning and there will be no end.  I am left with the question what do the scriptures mean by "Eternal Round".

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4 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Speak for yourself. Evolutionists can believe in the spirit component if we choose to do so. We can believe anything we want. We just have to limit our research to empirical methods.

What evidence would you accept?  Do you believe the physical brain is sufficiently complex to provide sentience?  How would you measure that?  Can the scientists map the brain structures, lobes, glands, neurons, etc to show how sentience is made possible?  If it can be demonstrated with theoretical models for sentience that a structure many orders of magnitude greater would be required, would you accept that there is an unseen component?  The spirit?

If you believe the spirit component is required for "quickening" organisms, why do you think God would want to bother with overseeing mind-numbing billions of years for evolution to produce the "parts" for His Creations?  Why can't you accept God's Power to command the dust to move hither and thither to form bodies?  As I have stated in a thread a few years back, I believe God could have used "Priesthood Templates" for performing His creative works.

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5 hours ago, longview said:

Do you consider viruses to be living?  How about bacterias?  There is a progression from primitive RNAs to higher forms.  At what point does an organism become life?  How do you define life?  When death occurs, why does a life form seem to shut down and start to decay within a short period of time?  Is it because the spirit leaves the body?

I don’t think any of your questions remain unanswered by scientists. I think the issue is that you have difficulty reconciling modern scientific findings with your theology. This is certainly not a position I envy  you 

I don’t believe there is a spirit in a living being, because I’ve seen no indications, let alone evidence, of spirits. 

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For the evolutionist, DNA has to evolve from primitive RNAs. 

I would be shocked if there were unanimity among scientists on the RNA model. 

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But the evolutionist cannot believe in the spirit component and cannot account for the development of spirit entities. 

Again, I’d be surprised to find, even among your fellow board members, there is no crossover between believers in evolution and believers of spiritual entities.

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Is the brain sufficiently complex in higher life forms for it to have sentience and self awareness? 

Yes. Otherwise, we couldn’t be having this sufficiently complex if not wholly self-aware discussion.

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Or does it require a spirit to interface with the brain?  As Brigham Young stated, the spirit entity is required for "quickening" the physical body.

Among other things, this is a false dichotomy. There are certainly more options than the two you’ve provided. Why must we go from specific science straight to these extraordinary claims with little to no evidence?

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I am convinced that evolution cannot give rise from simple life forms to higher life forms. 

And what has convinced you?

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I believe there are NO evidence of interspecies change.  The evolutionist say evolution is a fact.  I say regardless of what "fact" is presented, it is possible to have more than one interpretation or narrative about it.  This is why I have repeatedly said that scientists should be able to prove evolution by experimenting with primitive RNAs.  Maybe even create computer models to show how the progression could have developed.

And I’m saying there is already evidence that you’re rejecting, so it’s hard for me to believe you will suddenly start respecting facts that conflict with your belief system. 

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My theory of the origin of life?  I believe the "intelligences" have always existed and dwell in a multi-dimensional universe.  7 dimensions, 24 dimensions?  We will know on the other side of the veil.  I believe those intelligences could have assembled physical components to organize biological machines.  First at the spiritual level and then moved themselves to occupy clay tabernacles.  I know that the church teaches there was no beginning and there will be no end.  I am left with the question what do the scriptures mean by "Eternal Round".

Yet you require scientists to jump through hoops before you believe that whales once had legs? Or that we are genetically related to old world apes?

What evidence do you have that any of the miraculous events from scripture happened? Do you need scientists to walk on water or raise dead Lazaruses in their laboratory?

Do you possibly require more evidence to disbelieve in multidimensionally eternal intelligences than you require to believe in basic evolution?

Edited by FunOnlineMan
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5 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said:

I would be shocked if there were unanimity among scientists on the RNA model. 

Are you implying that DNA evolved from something other than primitive RNAs?  Was it coacervates? ;)

Have you had thought experiments on how that might have happened?

5 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said:

Yes. Otherwise, we couldn’t be having this sufficiently complex if not wholly self-aware discussion.

You are completely missing the point.  Please refer to my response to "katharine the great" posted before your last.

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1 hour ago, longview said:

Are you implying that DNA evolved from something other than primitive RNAs?  Was it coacervates? ;)

Have you had thought experiments on how that might have happened?

I’m implying scientists tend to disagree and challenge the status quo. I personally find the RNA/self-replication model compelling.

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You are completely missing the point.  Please refer to my response to "katharine the great" posted before your last.

Okay. I completely missed the point, so I will now try to glean it from your response to someone else. How could this go wrong? Here goes…

11 hours ago, longview said:

What evidence would you accept?

Of evolution? I do accept the evidence. I would accept more.

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 Do you believe the physical brain is sufficiently complex to provide sentience?

Yes. And not only in humans. 

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How would you measure that?

With my very complex brain, I suppose. What makes you think it isn’t complex enough? And how would you measure that?

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Can the scientists map the brain structures, lobes, glands, neurons, etc to show how sentience is made possible?  If it can be demonstrated with theoretical models for sentience that a structure many orders of magnitude greater would be required, would you accept that there is an unseen component?  The spirit?

 So, if neurologists manage to prove that our brains could only maintain sentience, it would necessarily follow that there is an unseen component, and, therefore, we have a spirit?

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If you believe the spirit component is required for "quickening" organisms, why do you think God would want to bother with overseeing mind-numbing billions of years for evolution to produce the "parts" for His Creations?

I don’t believe a spirit component is necessary, I also don’t believe Yahweh was involved. Is that the part I completely missed? The part where that need was demonstrated?

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Why can't you accept God's Power to command the dust to move hither and thither to form bodies?  As I have stated in a thread a few years back, I believe God could have used "Priesthood Templates" for performing His creative works.

I can’t accept god’s power to form bodies, because it isn’t demonstrable in any way. 

I assume I’ve conpletely missed the point again, so I guess I’ll wait for KTG to respond, then for you to respond to her.

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