Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) I am breaking my promise to never post again for this topic. Refute or support this statement with scripture "In dealing with people on earth Heaven always does what is right No Matter the Cost" I take this as an article of faith for myself. Edited December 9, 2018 by Metis_LDS spelling Link to comment
bluebell Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: I am breaking my promise to never post again for this topic. Refute or support this statement with scripture "In dealing with people on earth Heaven always does what is right No Matter the Cost" I take this as an article of faith for myself. What does the quote mean by 'heaven'? Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 Well Heavenly beings that minister to those on earth. Link to comment
bluebell Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Ok. I'm not sure that there are any scriptures about Heavenly Beings always doing what is right, but that doesn't mean it's not true I guess. Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 God is a Heavenly being and he ministers to the earth. Link to comment
RevTestament Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 40 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: I am breaking my promise to never post again for this topic. Refute or support this statement with scripture "In dealing with people on earth Heaven always does what is right No Matter the Cost" I take this as an article of faith for myself. Zech 5: 3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. 4 I will bring it forth, saith the Lord of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof. 5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth. 6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. 7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. 8 And he said, This is wickedness. Link to comment
let’s roll Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 What’s right is often leaving most of us to ourselves, because we don’t ask for input from, or interaction with, Heaven. Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 1 minute ago, let’s roll said: What’s right is often leaving most of us to ourselves, because we don’t ask for input from, or interaction with, Heaven. Yes I have done that, as you grow old you get the feeling that will no longer work. Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Forgive me, but I don’t understand the point of this thread. the Lord always does what’s right. Or He would cease to be God as we learned from Alma. the Book of Mormon was written to show men that God keeps His promises to His covenant children 3 Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: Forgive me, but I don’t understand the point of this thread. the Lord always does what’s right. Or He would cease to be God as we learned from Alma. the Book of Mormon was written to show men that God keeps His promises to His covenant children The point is that we do not always see God doing right in terms of cost. Costs are what make it all real. Edited December 9, 2018 by Metis_LDS missing word Link to comment
bluebell Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: The point is that we do not always see God doing right in terms of cost. Costs are what make it all real. I'm not sure what you mean by cost. Can you clarify? Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, bluebell said: I'm not sure what you mean by cost. Can you clarify? Look how about a friend story (no really). I had a friend who had done much for the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. He got a revelation in the Temple not to do something ( the thing in of itself was not wrong to do). But even though this was the strongest revelation he ever had he went against it. He then was harmed by doing what he was told not to do and was also went some crazy over going against the warning. We as humans would maybe hold back and say well it is the right thing to warn but what about possible harm. No Games here I am Pro God, Gospel etc... Heaven did the right thing for my friend but there are always costs. 1 Link to comment
bluebell Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: Look how about a friend story (no really). I had a friend who had done much for the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. He got a revelation in the Temple not to do something ( the thing in of itself was not wrong to do). But even though this was the strongest revelation he ever had he went against it. He then was harmed by doing what he was told not to do and was also went some crazy over going against the warning. We as humans would maybe hold back and say well it is the right thing to warn but what about possible harm. No Games here I am Pro God, Gospel etc... Heaven did the right thing for my friend but there are always costs. It seems like the cost was caused by the friend not listening and were not caused by Heaven. Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, bluebell said: It seems like the cost was caused by the friend not listening and were not caused by Heaven. I am sad you have missed the point, I did not say or intend to say this was caused by Heaven. Heaven did right, the warning ignored caused pain ( he told me about that pain). We humans hesitate and weigh things up and then do no act. Heaven must act on what is right no matter what comes after. Edited December 9, 2018 by Metis_LDS spelling and format Link to comment
Calm Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Metis_LDS said: I am breaking my promise to never post again for this topic. Refute or support this statement with scripture "In dealing with people on earth Heaven always does what is right No Matter the Cost" I take this as an article of faith for myself. What do you mean by "right"? Right according to justice? Right according to Mercy? Right according to God's Purpose? 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 32 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: I am sad you have missed the point, I did not say or intend to say this was caused by Heaven. Heaven did right, the warning ignored caused pain ( he told me about that pain). We humans hesitate and weigh things up and then do no act. Heaven must act on what is right no matter what comes after. Maybe you can clarify how you think the rejection of revelation was tied to the costs and what you think .Heaven could have done to prevent those costs by not doing right. 1 Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Calm said: What do you mean by "right"? Right according to justice? Right according to Mercy? Right according to God's Purpose? I imagine that for each case of Heavenly action there is Heavenly agreement on some level. You talk about Justice and Mercy that I know is complicated in the least. Gods Purposes, if God instruct an Angel to do something then maybe that becomes what is right. Sorry I can not give you more info about what is right in Heaven. Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Calm said: Maybe you can clarify how you think the rejection of revelation was tied to the costs and what you think .Heaven could have done to prevent those costs by not doing right. Without revelation there would have been no pain of rejecting it this answers both your questions. Again I feel Heaven did right by warning. After all this I do not want Heaven to change what was done. But I am surprised by the posts I am getting (not just your) DO people really want to think that Heaven is harmless??? Link to comment
Calm Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Metis_LDS said: I imagine that for each case of Heavenly action there is Heavenly agreement on some level. You talk about Justice and Mercy that I know is complicated in the least. Gods Purposes, if God instruct an Angel to do something then maybe that becomes what is right. Sorry I can not give you more info about what is right in Heaven. Then I don't see how you can determine your premise if you can't define the terms well enough to compare to specifics. So it becomes an article of faith. The Heaven will do Right no matter what the cost...what if the cost is the sucess of God's chosen purpose? How can you tell doing what is right will never interfere with God's purpose if you can't say what right actually means in this case? If you mean what is right is anything that fulfills God's Purpose, then you need to explain what actual costs are attached to it. What you see as "costs" may be the result of the illusions of mortality (is the pain of surgery really a cost if it removes other greater pain or just part of the process, for example?) Link to comment
changed Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: DO people really want to think that Heaven is harmless??? what is harmless? it is all relative - all depends on what your goals are. In this holiday season - do you give someone what they want so they want what you give them.. love the present love the giver sort of a deal? . or... give them what we think they need even if they might not (immediately?) appreciate it? God gives us what we need, rather than what we want, which creates a few disagreements at times... the gifts are not earthly, not power or money or popularity - the gifts given are humble hearts and contrite spirits... we can accept them, or seek other things, our own free will. There is more than one Spirit who will willingly accompany us through this life - choose your spiritual companions - choose your tests - decide what is harmful and what is helpful - or choose to see everything as helpful... choose what gifts are most important - choose your eternal kingdom... choose your heaven. Edited December 9, 2018 by changed quote Link to comment
Calm Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: Without revelation there would have been no pain of rejecting it this answers both your questions. Again I feel Heaven did right by warning. After all this I do not want Heaven to change what was done. But I am surprised by the posts I am getting (not just your) DO people really want to think that Heaven is harmless??? I think you are getting the posts you are because you are not clear in your meaning. I am asking questions to see where you are taking this, not because I disagree. I don't understand what you mean (it could mean multiple things), so at this point I don't agree or disagree. There would have been a cost if Heaven had withheld the revelation if he had been able to accept it. Also, You have no way of knowing if there would have been a greater cost if the revelation had been withheld even knowing he would reject it in the manner that he did because there might have been some harm avoided by his greater awareness due to the revelation, even if he didn't take advantage of the full benefit. There are "costs" (consequences) whether we act or don't act, even if someone has perfect knowledge as God does. Edited December 9, 2018 by Calm Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Calm said: Then I don't see how you can determine your premise if you can't define the terms well enough to compare to specifics. So it becomes an article of faith. The Heaven will do Right no matter what the cost...what if the cost is the sucess of God's chosen purpose? How can you tell doing what is right will never interfere with God's purpose if you can't say what right actually means in this case? If you mean what is right is anything that fulfills God's Purpose, then you need to explain what actual costs are attached to it. What you see as "costs" may be the result of the illusions of mortality (is the pain of surgery really a cost if it removes other greater pain or just part of the process, for example?) (what if the cost is the sucess of God's chosen purpose?) We know from scriptures that God does not work against himself. (How can you tell doing what is right will never interfere with God's purpose if you can't say what right actually means in this case?) I do not know what is always right but Heaven follows the plan of Salvation so there must be rights according to that in Heaven). (If you mean what is right is anything that fulfills God's Purpose, then you need to explain what actual costs are attached to it.) Well an easy one is that about a third of pre-exsiting spirits will not be getting a body. I never said I want it to become an article of faith I said it is one for me as a person. Edited December 9, 2018 by Metis_LDS added a sentence Link to comment
Calm Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Metis, do you believe that what is right is what God does? Link to comment
Calm Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Just now, Metis_LDS said: Well an easy one is that about a third of pre-exsiting spirits will not be getting a body. But if that is what they really want...and they chose it knowing the consequences as far as we are aware...is it really a cost? For them? Or for God? Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Calm said: Metis, do you believe that what is right is what God does? Does not God always do right? I trust in my God and the scriptures. Link to comment
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