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BYU suicide and campus mental health appt. wait times

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Lol, I think they are just obvious responses.  

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1 minute ago, Calm said:

Lol, I think they are just obvious responses.  

Oh, thanks a lot! I thought I was being insightful. 

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11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It could be argued that the “certain standards on top of general expectations” BYU students are required to follow mitigate in the long-term against social or emotional problems by requiring behavior that helps prevent them. I have in mind moral cleanliness and avoidance of alcohol and drug abuse, to name a few. 

True, although it can be argued that a glass of wine is healthy and drugs such as marijuana have many physical and mental health benefits.

For whatever reason, Utah already has a major drug problem, opioids and meth, and it doesn't matter that the population is predominantly Mormon and asked to abstain from drugs.  I would love to hear that the members follow the guidance to not abuse drugs, but too many don't follow this guidance.  

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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201303/how-casual-sex-can-affect-our-mental-health

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Researchers examining the mental health associations of hookup sex also report that participants who were not depressed before showed more depressive symptoms and loneliness after engaging in casual sex.

(Another set of risk factors involve nonconsensual sex. In one study reported by Garcia and colleagues, approximately half the young women surveyed said they'd had a nonconsensual sexual encounter, and alcoholand other substances were more likely to be factors in nonconsensual sex.)

 

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13 minutes ago, lostindc said:

True, although it can be argued that a glass of wine is healthy and drugs such as marijuana have many physical and mental health benefits.

For whatever reason, Utah already has a major drug problem, opioids and meth, and it doesn't matter that the population is predominantly Mormon and asked to abstain from drugs.  I would love to hear that the members follow the guidance to not abuse drugs, but too many don't follow this guidance.  

I think, to seek a meaningful correlation, you would have to consider the well-being of those who earnestly follow the standards, not those who merely have their names on the membership rolls. Current temple recommend holders would be one definable, although not foolproof, population for study. 

I remind you that your suggestion was that following the standards, not just having them in place, was adding to the burden of BYU students that results in their mental or emotional maladies. At least, that’s how I read you. 

By the way, what health benefits are derived from a glass of wine that could not come as well from a glass of grape juice? 

And I would have to see some reliable literature on alleged physical and mental health benefits of marijuana. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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14 minutes ago, Calm said:

 

One can't separate the university from the membership.  Predominantly members are the BYU students.  Articles linked below apply.

Also, if you haven't noticed, LDS youth, including BYU students are forced to reach out to groups outside of the faith, thus university to receive help.  A quick read of exMormon reddit will show that weekly, LDS youth are reaching out for help from posters on the message board.  These posters gather resources to help these students.  That's where it's at right now.  Are you okay with that?

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“LDS women are significantly higher in depression than non-LDS women.”

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Utah, where 62.8 percent of the population is Mormon, ranks poorly for several categories of mental illness. According to a 2017 survey by Mental Health America, Utah ranks dead last in the nation when it comes to adults with serious thoughts of suicide and prevalence of mental illness and access to health care. Utah also ranks 40th for adults with any mental illness reporting unmet needs.

 

https://universe.byu.edu/2018/02/05/mental-illness-1/

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Though BYU has no formal support groups for LGBT students, it does offer access to on-campus counseling and an unofficial LGBT group called Understanding Same-Gender Attraction, which holds its meetings off campus.

USGA surveyed 92 primarily LGBT BYU students in Winter 2015 and found 52 percent “at some point in life considered self-harm.” Fifty-two percent also indicated in the survey they felt they didn’t have a go-to friend.

 

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Just as shocking is Utah’s own suicide rate: 23.9 suicides per 100,000 population for people ages 10 and up in 2013. The U.S. suicide rate for people ages 10 and up was 14.9 per 100,000 population during that same period.

 

https://universe.byu.edu/2017/01/20/lgbt-byu-students-at-higher-risk-for-depression-suicide1/

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

This is incredibly tragic.  I hope that the LDS church can find some money somewhere to provide a budget for a few extra counselors to help deal with the mental and emotional suffering of its members.

Gads, can you get more sanctimonious? No helpful and full of spite.

Not surprisingly, this generation is far more comfortable seeking psychological assistance and counseling.  However, it is a problem that few universities have been successful in providing enough counselors given the demand. It is interesting that this generation does not have a lot of resilience (see the previous link). Why?  Is there a way to recover their resilience and ability to cope with the demands of daily living?  

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Todd Grey’s observation spurred state and federal health researchers to launch a 2008 project similar to the youth suicide study. Over a year, they interviewed family members and friends of about 250 Utahns who died from opioids. 

Like Doug Gray’s team, they found common characteristics for people most at risk: being unemployed, dealing with chronic pain and facing mental health or substance abuse problems.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/health/2018/04/07/utah-needs-a-better-strategy-to-prevent-suicide-a-researcher-is-about-to-spend-years-talking-with-grieving-families-to-design-it/

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The KSL comments are interesting. https://www.ksl.com/article/46441417/byu-student-dies-after-fall-deemed-suicide-from-campus-building The  Daily Herald has more student reaction.  https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/byu-officials-confirm-death-of-student-who-fell-in-tanner/article_58dc09c5-cc3a-5518-93ec-bb03cd4b13f0.html "

During a devotional on Tuesday, university President Kevin Worthen fought back tears and expressed his personal sympathy and prayers to those affected by the incident.

“Such events try our hearts and stretch our souls. They should also cause us to be more aware of, and more caring for, the well-being of every individual in our community,” he said."

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41 minutes ago, Calm said:

If this is still done, having one of the early classes (after the first week where kids are still adding) deal with mental health, prevention, recognition in others, and resources seems like it could be a useful and relatively doable aid.

I've not been a student in ages now. (Doesn't seem like long, but the early 90's keeps getting farther away). So this may not be relevant anymore but when I was there the required class "Fitness for Life" also included things like sensitivity training and sex abuse/assault training and also had a pack discussing mental health. Although there were far fewer resources then. I'd imagine that's still they way they do it.

40 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Did anyone ask for "10x the number of therapists as other State funded schools"?  

The claim was BYU already has 10x the number as other schools. So if people are asking for BYU to do more then they are asking for BYU to have more than 10x the amount of other schools. (I've no idea if that 10x figure is correct)

40 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Unfortunately, the consequences are already felt at BYU/Utah and mental illness and suicide are much higher than other places and students are begging for additional resources. 

I'd be very skeptical that is true. At best it might be equivalent to the prevailing region which for various reasons like altitude are higher than the northeast.

30 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Flett stresses that perfectionism itself doesn’t lead to suicide, but it is an amplifier, and an underappreciated one at that." I can see perfectionism being an amplier for suicides at BYU.

Possibly, although as others note there are strong behaviors that likely push it the other direction. 

 

 

Edited by clarkgoble

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Maybe. I am withholding judgment for a couple of reasons. First, the rate of Mormon women suffering from depression may actually be lower than the national average for women. The data on this is inconsistent, though; Timothy Heaton’s research has indeed found that “LDS women are significantly higher in depression than non-LDS women.” So there is no consensus here

https://religionnews.com/2017/04/25/mormon-women-and-depression-revisited/

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Just now, Storm Rider said:

Gads, can you get more sanctimonious? No helpful and full of spite.

Not surprisingly, this generation is far more comfortable seeking psychological assistance and counseling.  However, it is a problem that few universities have been successful in providing enough counselors given the demand. It is interesting that this generation does not have a lot of resilience (see the previous link). Why?  Is there a way to recover their resilience and ability to cope with the demands of daily living?  

You're kidding right?

 

This "generation does not have a lot of resilience."  Very christlike.  I wonder if the variables changed for "this generation".  

 

Many are full of spite because this is an ongoing problem and the Church and BYU aren't providing enough resources, and as God's one and true Church they're responsible for their flock.  When we read of the Church investing in another property, another building, another farm, or whatever we get disgusted.  When my friend's son killed himself in his dorm room at BYU a couple years ago, I wish I could have been there earlier to tell him that it's going to be okay, that he doesn't have to stay Mormon, that he can be gay if that was really the issue, that maybe the school or the Church doesn't have resources available at the time but we will find him the resources, and he can live a full life, a happy life.  

Now run along and make this another argue for the sake of arguing and defending the Church at all costs.

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@clarkgoble

Only problem there is Fitness for Life can be taken anytime...at least I took it my last semester.  Did take a Health class freshman year.

Timing needs to be locked into to first few weeks of freshman year, imo.

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1 minute ago, Calm said:

If that get's you to sleep at night.  

The suicide rates are significantly higher, the mental illness rates are significantly higher, it's not mountains, social media, a weaker generation, it's something else, and until it's remedied, we might want to throw resources at the problem.

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8 minutes ago, Calm said:

@clarkgoble

Only problem there is Fitness for Life can be taken anytime...at least I took it my last semester.  Did take a Health class freshman year.

Timing needs to be locked into to first few weeks of freshman year, imo.

True. I took it as a senior but it's supposed to be taken as a freshman and they encourage that. (I was a transfer student which was why I took it later - I didn't realize I needed it until working out my graduation)

10 minutes ago, lostindc said:

This "generation does not have a lot of resilience."  Very christlike.  I wonder if the variables changed for "this generation".  

Typically psychologists think this is more of an issue for millennials and Gen Z due to the prominence of social media and having phones with them constantly. That in turn leads to the well known higher rates of depression and related issues. 

7 minutes ago, lostindc said:

The suicide rates are significantly higher, the mental illness rates are significantly higher, it's not mountains, social media, a weaker generation, it's something else, and until it's remedied, we might want to throw resources at the problem.

You keep asserting this but people have pointed out reasons why it's almost certainly wrong.

It's of course always a tragedy but you seem to have some assumptions without being able to explain to the rest of us why you think those are correct.

Edited by clarkgoble
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10 hours ago, lostindc said:

If that get's you to sleep at night.  

The suicide rates are significantly higher, the mental illness rates are significantly higher, it's not mountains, social media, a weaker generation, it's something else, and until it's remedied, we might want to throw resources at the problem.

Better in my opinion rather than throwing resources is to target where they have been helpful in the past, not make undocumented claims that may blame that which might be helpful after all as indicated by previous studies (whether that is moderate alcohol use or religious activity and morality teachings), and get some good funding that last longer than three years at a time for research.

Edited by Calm
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1 minute ago, clarkgoble said:

 

Typically psychologists think this is more of an issue for millennials and Gen Z due to the prominence of social media and having phones with them constantly. That in turn leads to the well known higher rates of depression and related issues. 

One of the links I put up pointed out suicide rates started to rise dramatically in 2012, the same time smart phones among teens passed the 50% rate.  Even just the habits that increase sleep deprivation among teens likely contributes to depression.

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18 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Gads, can you get more sanctimonious? No helpful and full of spite.

Not surprisingly, this generation is far more comfortable seeking psychological assistance and counseling.  However, it is a problem that few universities have been successful in providing enough counselors given the demand. It is interesting that this generation does not have a lot of resilience (see the previous link). Why?  Is there a way to recover their resilience and ability to cope with the demands of daily living?  

Maybe the world Is just more awful.......

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19 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Gads, can you get more sanctimonious?

Not sure I understand.  How am I showing myself to be morally superior?

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2 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Typically psychologists think this is more of an issue for millennials and Gen Z due to the prominence of social media and having phones with them constantly. That in turn leads to the well known higher rates of depression and related issues. 

Maybe, but the idea that the national suicide rates are higher than any other time are completely incorrect.  Based on the quote below, I guess that generation wasn't 
resilient" or maybe they all lived in high altitudes and had some sort of social media devices?  We have a problem, what do we do to start to fix this problem?

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One of the highest rates in the country’s modern history, he said, was in 1932, during the Great Depression, when the rate was 22.1 per 100,000, about 70 percent higher than in 2014.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/health/us-suicide-rate-surges-to-a-30-year-high.html

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5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Better in my opinion rather than throwing resources is to target where they have been helpful in the past, not make undocumentated claims that may blame that which might be helpful after all as indicated by previous studies (whether that is moderate alcohol use or religious activity and morality teachings), and get some good funding that last longer than three years at a time for research.

Really? 

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3 minutes ago, Calm said:

One of the links I put up pointed out suicide rates started to rise dramatically in 2012, the same time smart phones among teens passed the 50% rate.  Even just the habits that increase sleep deprivation among teens likely contributes to depression.

Why do we need to guess what is causing these high rates of suicide and depression in Utah and subsequently the LDS membership base?  Wouldn't it be better to treat the problem?  Would you prefer money for counselors at BYU that might have helped and prevented my friend's son and the poor young girl from killing themselves instead of City Creek Mall?  This is a very real question.  Where do you want the Church to spend money and if the membership asks for more counselors so they don't have to wait months to receive help,  is it okay to use some of our rainy day funds to help the flock?

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Regarding the relationship between religious observance and mental health, Daniel Peterson gave a very good presentation at the 2017 FAIR Conference.

Some excerpts (emphases added):

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Via such publications as Is Religion Good for Your Health: The Effects of Religion on Physical and Mental Health (1997), his Handbook of Religion and Mental Health (1998), and his editorship of the Oxford Handbook of Religion and Health (2012), Harold Koenig, a psychiatrist on the faculty of Duke University, has established himself as a premier authority in this area. He and his collaborators argue that religious involvement is correlated with better mental health in the areas of depression, substance abuse and suicide, and, somewhat less certainly, with better results in the treatment of stress-related disorders and dementia.

Moreover, according to Tyler VanderWeele, professor of epidemiology at Harvard University, recent research published by himself and his colleagues in various top-tier medical journals confirms the links that previous scientific investigation had identified between attendance at religious services and enhanced health. Regular attendance is associated, for example, with “a roughly 30 percent reduction in mortality over 16 years of follow-up; a five-fold reduction in the likelihood of suicide; and a 30 percent reduction in the incidence of depression,” VanderWeele writes.

But the apparent blessings don’t end there: Regular participation in communal religious worship appears to be associated with “greater likelihood of healthy social relationships and stable marriages; an increased sense of meaning in life; higher life satisfaction; an expansion of one’s social network; and more charitable giving, volunteering, and civic engagement,” says VanderWeele.

One might perhaps conclude that it’s the social support afforded by religious participation that confers such benefits. VanderWeele, however, says that social support accounts for only about 20-30 percent of the measured results. The self-discipline encouraged by religious faith and the optimistic worldview that it supports also appear to be important contributing factors to physical health and longevity.

One might perhaps conclude that it’s the social support afforded by religious participation that confers such benefits. VanderWeele, however, says that social support accounts for only about 20-30 percent of the measured results. The self-discipline encouraged by religious faith and the optimistic worldview that it supports also appear to be important contributing factors to physical health and longevity.

Of course, none of this proves religious claims are true. But it does strongly suggest that faith isn’t an illness, and that, on that point at least, Freud and his followers are wrong.

...

In his 2009 book Is Faith Delusion? Why Religion is Good for Your Health, Dr. Andrew Sims, former president of the United Kingdom’s Royal College of Psychiatrists and professor of psychiatry at the University of Leeds, contends, on the basis of his own psychiatric practice as well as a large number of scientific studies, that “people with religious belief, rather than being timid and lacking clear convictions, have a greater sense of direction and feeling of independence from control.” Indeed, one of the major themes of his book is that “religious belief tends to be associated with better health, both physical and mental.”

“The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry, and medicine generally,” he writes. “If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land!”

The entire article is worth a read.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

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4 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Did anyone ask for "10x the number of therapists as other State funded schools"?  Also, BYU is not state funded but I do believe that BYU is run similar to the school that are in the region.  Utah is very poorly funded for schooling and cutting corners is culture.

 

If we're going to discuss a "University's obligation" then we can really open up a lot of topics.  BYU is a unique situation where students are required to follow certain standards on top of the general expectations of a college student and significant consequences can follow.  Unfortunately, the consequences are already felt at BYU/Utah and mental illness and suicide are much higher than other places and students are begging for additional resources.  Therefore, BYU has a problem, should BYU help fix the problem or do nothing?  Should BYU help the members that are suffering or keep the status the same?  After all, these are the same members that fund BYU and everything else in the Church.  What do you think kllindley, should we cut corners or help?

Well, you stated that you hoped they would add therapists.  They already have more than 2x and as many as 5x more therapists on staff. That fact alone seems impressive to me. 

I really don't think the number of therapists is the only measure of what BYU is doing to help. There are bishops that can be a source of support and in the case of need for more professional support, they can refer to outside agencies and provide funding. 

I said pretty clearly that I'm supportive of providing mental health treatment. I'm just pointing out that the availability of therapists at the student counseling center is not the only (or even most accurate) measure of the University's success.

 

 

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