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BYU suicide and campus mental health appt. wait times

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24 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

It's worth noting that there is a flier I believe they give out at the clinic at BYU listing mental health options. You'd never know from the way people, often apparently ignorant former students, are going on in places like Twitter and Facebook. In particular most students should qualify for medicaid

In Utah, most single students would not qualify for medicaid because they are not in the right "class" of person who qualifies. With the passage of the new medicaid expansion that was on the ballot in November, single students can now qualify for medicaid beginning in April. https://medicaid.utah.gov/who-eligible  https://www.healthinsurance.org/utah-medicaid/  https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-uninsured-poor-adults-in-states-that-do-not-expand-medicaid/

Edited by bsjkki
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2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

In Utah, most single students would not qualify for medicaid because they are not in the right "class" of person who qualifies. With the passage of the new medicaid expansion that was on the ballot in November, single students can now qualify for medicaid beginning in April. https://medicaid.utah.gov/who-eligible  https://www.healthinsurance.org/utah-medicaid/  

I'm not sure that's true. Residency is easy to obtain. Also even if you're maintaining residency in an other state (why?) you can be on medicaid there which since it's a federal program would pay in Utah. Certainly there are students earning more than $12,000 per year and thus not able to qualify for medicaid. But in those cases they could arguably pay for therapy too. Foreign students would have more of an issue though.

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For a faith with an enormous amount of money, investments throughout the world, ranging from hunting preserves, farms, investment firms, malls, housing, etc. I imagine they can find some way to allocate funds to provide for way more counseling services, especially since the members are paying for everything anyways.  

Rather shocking for a Church to spend so much on a mall and so little on counseling staff for BYU students.  I hope that we start to see a focus on people over profits, because the rates of mental health illness is already substantial high in Utah compared to many other states, thus the problem is likely to remain for the foreseeable future.

Edited by lostindc

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Perhaps a mental health evaluation should be added to college applications to help identify those likely to have problems early on and they should be refused admittance until they are cleared or allowed in only if they set up off campus counseling.  (Not talking just BYU, but all colleges as this is a rampant problem that from what I have read is often solved by colleges sending the kids home, so it makes sense to me to work on it first and not waste a semester or set a kid up for failure who isn't ready...when one is depressed, failing at school is dangerous).

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/tween-and-teen-health/in-depth/college-depression/art-20048327

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/depression-and-college-students/index.shtml

Edited by Calm
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18 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

I'm not sure that's true. Residency is easy to obtain. Also even if you're maintaining residency in an other state (why?) you can be on medicaid there which since it's a federal program would pay in Utah. Certainly there are students earning more than $12,000 per year and thus not able to qualify for medicaid. But in those cases they could arguably pay for therapy too. Foreign students would have more of an issue though.

“Medicaid eligibility for adults in states that did not expand their programs is quite limited: the median income limit for parents in these states is just 43% of poverty, or an annual income of $8,935 a year for a family of three in 2018, and in nearly all states not expanding, childless adults remain ineligible.3 Further, because the ACA envisioned low-income people receiving coverage through Medicaid, it does not provide financial assistance to people below poverty for other coverage options. As a result, in states that do not expand Medicaid, many adults fall into a “coverage gap” of having incomes above Medicaid eligibility limits but below the lower limit for Marketplace premium tax credits (Figure 1).”

Childless adults are ineligible.

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Am I missing something here? Did the suicide occur because the victim had tried and failed to see an on-campus counselor? I don’t get that from either of the linked-to news stories. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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16 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Childless adults are ineligible.

In 2017, Utah increased eligibility for parents from 45% to 60% FPL, including the 5 percentage point disregard, and changed parent eligibility from a dollar to FPL based threshold. In 2017, Utah also received waiver approval and is covering childless adults with incomes up to 5% FPL who are chronically homeless or in need of behavioral health treatment as of January 2018. Adults with incomes up to 100% FPL continue to be eligible for coverage of primary care services under the Primary Care Network Section 1115 waiver program in Utah. Enrollment is opened periodically when there is capacity to accept new enrollees.

See this document for details. It includes mental health treatment.

While 5% FPL is basically just those not working at all the waiver program should apply although I've not looked into what that covers so I might be misreading it. 

Edited by clarkgoble

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1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Am I missing something here? Did the suicide occur because the victim had tried and failed to see an on-campus counselor? I don’t get that from either of the linked-to news stories. 

What is it with you and expecting criticism of the Church to be logical or to accurately reflect context? 😉  Doesn't it make more sense to just use any opportunity to bash the Church regardless of the facts? 

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2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Am I missing something here? Did the suicide occur because the victim had tried and failed to see an on-campus counselor? I don’t get that from either of the linked-to news stories. 

I don't think there is a direct link. After the suicide happened, students at BYU pointed out the long wait times. The suicide may be completely unrelated to long wait times at BYU but students at BYU, were promoted by this tragic event, to point out the problems they have experienced with long wait times and only being able to get services once a month.  I think this is normal for people try to make sense of things and understand why this happened. 

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28 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Since 2017 Utah "provide Medicaid coverage for adults without dependent children earning up to 5% of the federal poverty level (FPL) who are: Chronically homeless; Involved in the justice system through probation, parole, or court ordered treatment; or needing substance abuse or mental health treatment

Edit: no idea why the editor decided to put strike through on everything. My apologies. I can't seem to fix it.

So those involved in the justice system have received more generous medicaid eligibility than those non-offender citizens.

Edit...I also see that is for mental health services too...sorry. My niece who does not need mental health services is trying to navigate this. She cannot get medicaid. She is 27 and a single, full time student at UVU which does not offer a student insurance plan. Her social security number was stolen and used for nine month old baby. She is in the coverage gap where she makes too little to receive subsidies on the exchange because she should be on medicaid but Utah won't insure her. Her job provides insurance but makes the employee pay the full cost which is thirty percent of her income. Maybe she does need counseling and then she would qualify for medicaid? What a system.  Anyway, the amount of paper work and help she has needed to try and secure insurance has been mind boggling. 

Edited by bsjkki
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5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Am I missing something here? Did the suicide occur because the victim had tried and failed to see an on-campus counselor? I don’t get that from either of the linked-to news stories. 

I would think that laws restrict access to this information.  

Based on student complaints, there appears to be backlog of students wishing to meet with counseling staff.  Perhaps university leadership and church leadership can now be proactive and provide more counseling staff so more unfortunate events are avoided?

Shocking that more counseling staff isn't already available just based on the significantly high mental illness and suicide rates in Utah, especially within and around the college age population.  I would think providing support for these members would garner more attention than a mall.

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1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Like I have said, this is not just a BYU problem. But, if BYU has 2 to 5 times as many therapists as other schools and still has a 10 week wait...what does that say about the mental health of BYU students? Do the other schools have these long wait times?

That's a really good question. I wonder why the Trib article didn't address that. Don't you think that would be relevant? 

National trends would suggests that long wait times and strict limits on the number of sessions is the norm. 

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1 minute ago, lostindc said:

I would think that laws restrict access to this information.  

Based on student complaints, there appears to be backlog of students wishing to meet with counseling staff.  Perhaps university leadership and church leadership can now be proactive and provide more counseling staff so more unfortunate events are avoided?

Shocking that more counseling staff isn't already available just based on the significantly high mental illness and suicide rates in Utah, especially within and around the college age population.  I would think providing support for these members would garner more attention than a mall.

Shocking that BYU doesn't offer 10x the number of therapists as other State funded schools?  I mean, I'm not opposed to making sure there is adequate access to mental health services. But I also don't know that it is any University's obligation to provide complete and immediate mental health care to every student. 

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http://time.com/5190291/anxiety-depression-college-university-students/

It should be noted that BYU has advantages in that its environment does not encourage many behaviours that contribute to depression, such as alcohol and drug use and smoking.  Otoh, it is higher altitude which has been linked to greater depression and then there is the issue of winter inversions and a particular type of pollution that has been linked in some studies to increases rates.

I have no clue what BYU puts out as part of its application/orientation info, but I think it would be wise for all colleges to send out information about risk factors and rates at their colleges and college in general as well as preparation to deal with stress and recognize depression info and high schools should be teaching about how sleep deprivation, screen time and timing (waking up at night to answer texts is just stupid unless one has a job dealing with life and death situations, you can set your phone to allow for certain calls to go through), drug use etc. will make college harder and less fun.

When I was at BYU, freshmen were required to take a class orienting them into their major (it is possible it was just my department, been too long, remember it was in the DeJong concert hall and think it mainly dealt with different career opportunities). If this is still done, having one of the early classes (after the first week where kids are still adding) deal with mental health, prevention, recognition in others, and resources seems like it could be a useful and relatively doable aid.

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1 minute ago, kllindley said:

Shocking that BYU doesn't offer 10x the number of therapists as other State funded schools?  I mean, I'm not opposed to making sure there is adequate access to mental health services. But I also don't know that it is any University's obligation to provide complete and immediate mental health care to every student. 

Did anyone ask for "10x the number of therapists as other State funded schools"?  Also, BYU is not state funded but I do believe that BYU is run similar to the school that are in the region.  Utah is very poorly funded for schooling and cutting corners is culture.

 

If we're going to discuss a "University's obligation" then we can really open up a lot of topics.  BYU is a unique situation where students are required to follow certain standards on top of the general expectations of a college student and significant consequences can follow.  Unfortunately, the consequences are already felt at BYU/Utah and mental illness and suicide are much higher than other places and students are begging for additional resources.  Therefore, BYU has a problem, should BYU help fix the problem or do nothing?  Should BYU help the members that are suffering or keep the status the same?  After all, these are the same members that fund BYU and everything else in the Church.  What do you think kllindley, should we cut corners or help?

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15 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

So those involved in the justice system have received more generous medicaid eligibility than those non-offender citizens.

Edit...I also see that is for mental health services too...sorry. My niece who does not need mental health services is trying to navigate this. She cannot get medicaid. She is 27 and a single, full time student at UVU which does not offer a student insurance plan. Her social security number was stolen and used for ninth month old baby. She is in the coverage gap where she makes too little to receive subsidies on the exchange because she should be on medicaid but Utah won't insure her. Her job provides insurance but makes the employee pay the full cost which is thirty percent of her income. Maybe she does need counseling and then she would qualify for medicaid? What a system.  Anyway, the amount of paper work and help she has needed to try and secure insurance has been mind boggling. 

Is she getting help filing for it?  When we were checking it out for our daughter when we weren't sure she would be covered, she went to a center south of BYU where they walked her through all the paperwork she needed to apply.  It was connected to Mountainlands Health Center at 589 S State St, but I can't remember if they were called something different.

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Students at Brigham Young University are calling on the administration to make changes to its mental health program after a young woman committed suicide this week inside a school building.

People on campus say BYU’s counseling center has been “understaffed” and “overbooked” for months, and many have contemplated taking their own lives while waiting for a spot to open up.

“No one can really get the help they need,” explained Brigham Pitts, a freshman who spoke to The Salt Lake Tribune.

“I think that there’s definitely a problem here,” added Jacob Payne, another freshman. “I think the problem is BYU doesn’t allocate enough resources.”

https://nypost.com/2018/12/05/college-students-suicide-blamed-on-overbooked-counseling-center/

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3 minutes ago, kllindley said:

Shocking that BYU doesn't offer 10x the number of therapists as other State funded schools?  I mean, I'm not opposed to making sure there is adequate access to mental health services. But I also don't know that it is any University's obligation to provide complete and immediate mental health care to every student. 

Honestly, the mental health access is a symptom of larger problems in our society. There are many people who have theories into why this is the case. It would be better to treat the cause but at the moment, we also have to treat the symptoms. I thought this Deseret News article from 2016 was interesting as it discussed teen suicide in affluent, high achieving Utah County high schools. https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865669275/The-Lone-Peak-story-What-you-didnt-know-about-affluence-and-teen-suicide.html "In October, two professors, one at the University of Chicago and the other at the University of Memphis, released a paper in the American Sociological Review showing how tightly knit cultures can increase suicide risk among teenagers. The study focused on a homogenous, upper middle class community that experienced several suicide clusters and found that teenagers there faced intense pressure to succeed."academically and conform to very narrowly defined standards of success....Gordon Flett, a professor of psychiatry at York University in Toronto, says this tendency toward perfectionism is troubling, and his recent research has focused on the links between perfectionism and suicide. Flett stresses that perfectionism itself doesn’t lead to suicide, but it is an amplifier, and an underappreciated one at that." I can see perfectionism being an amplier for suicides at BYU.

I had earlier read a story that pinned our society's drug and suicide problem on declining morals and a valueless society. "

"Well within my lifetime, the world has been turned upside down and twisted completely out of shape. When I was a teenager and a young adult, it was absolutely the norm that girls had it pounded into their heads to hold out for the marriage certificate, and boys, despite any lies told to their friends, generally respected that. The overwhelming majority did get married before they had any thought of having children, and there were no contraceptives to permit risk-free hanky-panky.

To modern ears in the sex-saturated 21st century, the above sounds at best quaint and old-fashioned. But there are those of us -- Orthodox Jews, seriously observant Christians, Muslims who reject the insane Jihadist cult, as well as adherents to customs of other traditional societies -- for which these are still standards held.

Yet if we express ourselves in public concerning those traditional values, we are met with hostility and ridicule. The deformed people around us who make up contemporary society want to shut us up. All that is missing is the compulsory reservation, where we can be with people just like ourselves."

 

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11 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Did anyone ask for "10x the number of therapists as other State funded schools"?  Also, BYU is not state funded but I do believe that BYU is run similar to the school that are in the region.  Utah is very poorly funded for schooling and cutting corners is culture.

 

If we're going to discuss a "University's obligation" then we can really open up a lot of topics.  BYU is a unique situation where students are required to follow certain standards on top of the general expectations of a college student and significant consequences can follow.  Unfortunately, the consequences are already felt at BYU/Utah and mental illness and suicide are much higher than other places and students are begging for additional resources.  Therefore, BYU has a problem, should BYU help fix the problem or do nothing?  Should BYU help the members that are suffering or keep the status the same?  After all, these are the same members that fund BYU and everything else in the Church.  What do you think kllindley, should we cut corners or help?

It could be argued that the “certain standards on top of general expectations” BYU students are required to follow mitigate in the long-term against social or emotional problems by requiring behavior that helps prevent them. I have in mind moral cleanliness and avoidance of alcohol and drug abuse, to name a few. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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11 hours ago, lostindc said:

Did anyone ask for "10x the number of therapists as other State funded schools"?  Also, BYU is not state funded but I do believe that BYU is run similar to the school that are in the region.  Utah is very poorly funded for schooling and cutting corners is culture.

 

If we're going to discuss a "University's obligation" then we can really open up a lot of topics.  BYU is a unique situation where students are required to follow certain standards on top of the general expectations of a college student and significant consequences can follow.  Unfortunately, the consequences are already felt at BYU/Utah and mental illness and suicide are much higher than other places and students are begging for additional resources.  Therefore, BYU has a problem, should BYU help fix the problem or do nothing?  Should BYU help the members that are suffering or keep the status the same?  After all, these are the same members that fund BYU and everything else in the Church.  What do you think kllindley, should we cut corners or help?

Actually those standards may help with depression and anxiety.

https://theconversation.com/1-in-5-college-students-have-anxiety-or-depression-heres-why-90440

Quote

But there are other culprits, such as the desire to get into a good college – and stay in college with good grades. To attain these goals, it is not uncommon for students and their parents to seek chemical assistance....

Cigarette smoking has been associated with significantly more sleep problems in college students and increased risk for depression and anxiety. Fortunately, the rate of cigarette smoking and e-cigarette use continues to decline with the rate of past-month use declining to around 16 percent of college students in 2016

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654787/

Quote

Depression and alcohol use are often found in college students, particularly during their first year. The current study assessed the interrelationship of alcohol use and specific depression symptoms. A large sample (n = 869) of first year students were invited to participate via the Internet Results indicated that specific depression symptoms correlated with alcohol consumption. Self-reported heavy, problem drinkers experienced significantly higher Beck Depression Inventory scores than all other groups. Our findings higlight the importance of screening for both alcohol use and depressed mood in college students

https://safesupportivelearning.ed.gov/sites/default/files/hec/product/depression.pdf

Quote

More college students who have been diagnosed with depression have used alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, or amphetamines than have their peers who have never been diagnosed with depression.5

• Eleven percent of college students between the ages of 18 and 24 report having considered suicide in the previous 12 months. Students who had consid- ered suicide responded with higher numbers to every survey question related to AOD use than those reported by their counterparts who had not considered suicide.6 

CFR that suicide rates and mental health problems at BYU are much higher than elsewhere.

Edited by Calm
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14 minutes ago, lostindc said:

If we're going to discuss a "University's obligation" then we can really open up a lot of topics.  BYU is a unique situation where students are required to follow certain standards on top of the general expectations of a college student and significant consequences can follow.  Unfortunately, the consequences are already felt at BYU/Utah and mental illness and suicide are much higher than other places and students are begging for additional resources. 

CFR, please, regarding BYU having "mental illness and suicide [rates]" that are "much higher than other places."

Thanks,

-Smac

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5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It could be argued that the “certain standards on top of general expectations” BYU students are required to follow mitigate in the long-term against social or emotional problems by requiring behavior that helps prevent them. I have in mind moral cleanliness and avoidance of alcohol and drug abuse, to name a few. 

 

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Actually those standards may help with depression and anxiety.

https://theconversation.com/1-in-5-college-students-have-anxiety-or-depression-heres-why-90440

CFR that suicide rates and mental health at BYU are much higher than elsewhere.

 

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

This is just a repeat of the Trib's article.

 

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Looks like the New York Post is essentially re-writing the Trib story as opposed to doing much, if any, original reporting. Such a thing happens a lot in journalism. 

Calm, you and I seem to be raising the same points. Have you gotten into my brain?

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