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Lucian Hodoboc

In case it turns out you are wrong...

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I used to think that I couldn't be wrong--that I had to 'get it'--all, entirely--in this lifetime.

I get to be wrong, without having any bad happen to me.

21 hours ago, Lucian Hodoboc said:

In the afterlife, in case it turns out that your beliefs were not the correct ones and, because of this, God sentences you to eternity in hell, will you consider yourself wronged? Will you try to bring arguments to support your cause or will you obediently accept the sentence?

Most belief systems do not posit a 'sentence to eternal hell', so whose 'true' scenario is this?  For example--what if the Muslims are right, you won't necessarily be in hell (Christians and Jews won't, anyway); what if the Samaritans are right (yes they still exist and baptize in the Jordan daily)? I have no idea.  What if Odin is there to meet us?  Does he have a hell or what are the criteria (I really don't know).  But what I'm saying--this scenario has to belong to a very narrow 'rightness', so whose is it and where did you get it?  It's not in the New Testament (or the Old Testament--which doesn't mention afterlife at all, so there's that), so it would have to be a non-Biblical 'rightness'.  Different belief systems have different consequences for 'being wrong'.  And quite often a lot of them are based less on 'thinking' wrong, and more regarding 'doing wrong' i.e. harming others.

But what I would do . . . I would fight against this God with everything I am, to extinguish him.  So . . . kind of like I am doing right now.

18 hours ago, halconero said:

"I see no faults in the Church, and therefore let me be resurrected with the Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or descend to hell, or go to any other place. And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it." - Joseph Smith Jr.

My favorite.  It means that we carry our 'afterlife' with us wherever we go.

WE are the afterlife.  THIS is the afterlife.  We are in it now--we are in. life. now.  Whatever we are at any given moment IS what life is.  Alma teaches of restoration--we will be what we already are.  Kung Fu Panda and the Dragon Scroll.

If we are living in a universe that is what you described, then most of us will be in hell, and I will. still. be. who. I am.  I am who I am in THIS hell (earth life), aren't I?  And there's even chocolate!

We're the dead ones.  We haven't yet come alive.

 

Edited by Maidservant

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7 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

Tacenda!  

Really?

GG

Yeah, and I wasn't able to edit "I'm made an a appointment", haha. I figure if we all believe, or LDS believe that our loved ones are only a thin veil away why can't we believe that some are given the gift to have our loved ones visit these Mediums and be able to communicate to their loved ones here on earth? My niece in California is also a Medium, and she's got many, many reviews that she isn't a phony. I've had a phone visit with her in her Medium self, and she did well. But she also knows my parents, since they are her grandparents. So I thought it would be fun to go to a person that doesn't know me. I'm hoping he is the real deal. 

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22 hours ago, Lucian Hodoboc said:

My apologies if it seems too controversial, but I've been struggling with this question a lot over the years and I wanted to see what others thought about the issue. 😐

It's kind of Pascal's Wager, but with a twist.  A really, really, devilish twist.

Is it just the Latter-day Saints who go to hell?  Or is it the Catholics, too?  How about the Coptics?  Which subset of the full panoply of nominally Christian churches (how many are there, again?) is the one for which condemnation to hell is prevented?  

Leaving aside those poor, deluded Mormons, what about the vast majority of the human race who did not live in a place and time that enabled them to even hear the word of Christ?  That's billions, not millions.

Could God really look at himself as "just" and "merciful" if those whom He deliberately put down into times and places where they had no chance whatsoever of hearing anything at all of Christ, let alone join whatever organization might actually be the "right" one -- I say again, if He is happy to plunk down these unfortunate beings he's created with no chance to jump through whatever hoop it was necessary to jump through to avoid eternal burning, and then at the end he throws them into that lake of fire to burn forever, arbitrarily because he made it impossible for them to escape -- how the heck can he call himself "just" and "merciful"?  I'm talking about the vast majority of every human ever born, including by golly every baby who was born then died before reaching a state where it could actually make a choice between good or bad.  Because out of the billions who have lived here, the number of those who have even been in a position to hear the Word, is an eensy weensy tiny percentage.  But whatever, they're going to hell regardless?

A god who could create an intelligent, feeling being (in his own image for crying out loud!) only to thrust that child into hellfire without a chance to repent, because the child knew nothing about it, is no God that deserves worship. This would be a god that hates his own children without the slightest bit of mercy or justice.  If this were God, then Satan's rebellion was entirely justified, and his defeat a tragedy.  

But that is not who God is.  

I don't really know who you are, Lucian.  LDS?  RCC? Muslim? Atheist?  

And why do you struggle with this question?

 

Edited by Stargazer
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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Yeah, and I wasn't able to edit "I'm made an a appointment", haha. I figure if we all believe, or LDS believe that our loved ones are only a thin veil away why can't we believe that some are given the gift to have our loved ones visit these Mediums and be able to communicate to their loved ones here on earth? My niece in California is also a Medium, and she's got many, many reviews that she isn't a phony. I've had a phone visit with her in her Medium self, and she did well. But she also knows my parents, since they are her grandparents. So I thought it would be fun to go to a person that doesn't know me. I'm hoping he is the real deal. 

I can believe that some can but I do not believe such gifts work on command. Just like prophets do not prophesy on demand and the gift of tongues does not work on command. I also believe that anyone who would monetize such a spiritual gift is practicing priestcraft and is going to Hell. Then there are all the biblical scriptures condemning the practice of trying to commune with the dead.

Still, it is your money.

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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Yeah, and I wasn't able to edit "I'm made an a appointment", haha. I figure if we all believe, or LDS believe that our loved ones are only a thin veil away why can't we believe that some are given the gift to have our loved ones visit these Mediums and be able to communicate to their loved ones here on earth? My niece in California is also a Medium, and she's got many, many reviews that she isn't a phony. I've had a phone visit with her in her Medium self, and she did well. But she also knows my parents, since they are her grandparents. So I thought it would be fun to go to a person that doesn't know me. I'm hoping he is the real deal. 

LDS also believe that there are many very very evil beings around us, who also have access to us when we open ourselves up to communicate with spirits, who would find great pleasure in pretending to be deceased family members, especially if it get's someone to put more faith in a medium than in their relationship with God and Jesus Christ.

But, more to your question, how are you going to know if the guy you go to is the real deal or not?  He could tell you absolutely anything concerning Heaven and you'd have no way to verify it, would you?

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20 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'm made an appointment with a local Medium this Saturday, was hoping he will tell me a little bit about the afterlife, that's a big hope though. But if he is communicating with those on the other side you'd think he'd have some idea right!?!

Will you let me know somehow how that goes?  If it is personal I understand ...but reach out on facebook if you can.

Hugs..Jeanne

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15 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Will you let me know somehow how that goes?  If it is personal I understand ...but reach out on facebook if you can.

Hugs..Jeanne

I'll let you know right here on this board, on this thread, haha! If Lucian doesn't mind. 

Edited by Tacenda

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The scriptures teach that ALL will confess God’s judgments are just.  So this is truly a hypothetical question, because no one will believe God’s judgment of them is wrong, regardless of what that judgment might be.

Additonally, isn’t the folly of appealing the judgment of an omniscient Deity obvious on its face.

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On 12/4/2018 at 3:00 AM, Glenn101 said:

Are you speaking of the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

 

No. The question applies to people of all beliefs. 😐

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On 12/4/2018 at 7:24 AM, The Nehor said:

Let me save you a few bucks:

Your loved ones are in a happy place and are watching over you. They want the best for you and forgive you and whatever else you need. Details about the afterlife will be sparse and unenlightening. The messages anyone has for you will be banal but heartwarming.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediumship

I'd like to know if I'm going to get Alzheimer's early like my mother, and I'd like to know how my parents are doing on the other side, and what my future holds, but that's asking a lot. And awhile back I never would have believed in Mediums, but my niece and my feelings that our loved ones do like to come through convinces. I don't get how some of you probably wouldn't think twice about someone coming to someone in the night or you don't think twice about Joseph getting visits as well. The veil is thin, remember?

Edited by Tacenda

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49 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'd like to know if I'm going to get Alzheimer's early like my mother, and I'd like to know how my parents are doing on the other side, and what my future holds, but that's asking a lot. And awhile back I never would have believed in Mediums, but my niece and my feelings that our loved ones do like to come through convinces. I don't get how some of you probably wouldn't think twice about someone coming to someone in the night or you don't think twice about Joseph getting visits as well. The veil is thin, remember?

Yeah, but contact from the other side seems to come from that side’s discretion possibly coupled with our receptivity. Do you think if your parents could reach you and have a message they would pick a medium that accepts all major credit cards to make that contact?

Edited by The Nehor

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54 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, but contact from the other side seems to come from that side’s discretion possibly coupled with our receptivity. Do you think if your parents could reach you and have a message they would pick a medium that accepts all major credit cards to make that contact?

Yes, because I'm a terrible conduit, seriously. I hope I haven't hijacked this poor thread too much. 

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Haha!  All major credit cards.  

Well I suppose we believe what we believe for good reasons. I don’t trust anyone with spiritual messages who collect money, be it preachers or  authors or prophets or tarot card readers.  But I also refused to see a chiropractor as my parents called them quacks....and then I took my daughter to one who was legit and YET ONCE AGAIN I learned that I don’t know nothin about nothin. 

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13 hours ago, Lucian Hodoboc said:

No. The question applies to people of all beliefs. 😐

Well, then, my brilliant and incisive post was completely misdirected!

Just saying: you might have made that clear in the Original Post (OP).

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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Yes, because I'm a terrible conduit, seriously. I hope I haven't hijacked this poor thread too much. 

I feel like I am picking on you but I do not mean to. Can I suggest you work on yourself then so you can get heavenly communication? I have seen too many people I care about lose way too much money in scams like this.

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31 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I feel like I am picking on you but I do not mean to. Can I suggest you work on yourself then so you can get heavenly communication? I have seen too many people I care about lose way too much money in scams like this.

It's my own money, so I definitely won't be spending much, although I share a bank account with my husband, I wanted it to be my expense since he's not happy about me going either. 😞

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It makes no difference if there are two religions with competing truth claims, or twenty, or two hundred, or two thousand, or twenty thousand, or two hundred thousand, or two million.  If someone whose beliefs differ from mine does his best to do what he believes God wants Him to do, to be a good person in the ways he believes matter to God, and to love, to serve, and to help his fellowman in the ways he believes God wants him to do, more power to him.  Ditto the person who doesn't believe in God, but who tries to ease suffering and to make life as good as he can make it for as long as he can for himself and for those around him before (from his perspective) succumbing to the void.  I can't very well ask that God judge him harshly, while, at the same time, asking that God judge me mercifully (see Matthew 7:2).

If God is going to condemn any of the above to hell without an electric fan, he's not much of a god worth believing in or trying to follow, anyway.   

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/toward-interreligious-oneness/

Edited by Kenngo1969
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16 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It's my own money, so I definitely won't be spending much, although I share a bank account with my husband, I wanted it to be my expense since he's not happy about me going either. 😞

I encourage you to read up on how to do a cold reading so you know what to expect.

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On 12/6/2018 at 1:23 AM, Stargazer said:

Well, then, my brilliant and incisive post was completely misdirected!

Just saying: you might have made that clear in the Original Post (OP).

I apologize for the lack of clarity in my initial post. Like I said, this thread was not started in order to criticize any beliefs, but rather to help me find out others' opinions about the issue I have struggled with in my own life. 🙂

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4 minutes ago, Lucian Hodoboc said:

I apologize for the lack of clarity in my initial post. Like I said, this thread was not started in order to criticize any beliefs, but rather to help me find out others' opinions about the issue I have struggled with in my own life. 🙂

My opinion is this: God put us here for a reason, and not so He could have fun like a little kid with a magnifying glass messing with ants in the sunlight.  The number of His children who died without ever hearing anything of Him or His Son in this life is huge.  For those who do have the chance of hearing of Him and/or His Son, there is only the vaguest of indications that there is a right way -- so vague that as Christ himself said, "few there be that find it."  If God is truly merciful, and truly loves His children, so much so that He calls us His children, I have to believe that his love and mercy will be righteously and mercifully exercised.  And that we will only be judged after a fair chance to choose what's right, if we don't get that chance here.

What will you do today?  This is the question that God asks each one of us.  He is testing our characters.

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On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 12:28 AM, Tacenda said:

It's my own money, so I definitely won't be spending much, although I share a bank account with my husband, I wanted it to be my expense since he's not happy about me going either. 😞

 

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 4:37 PM, The Nehor said:

I encourage you to read up on how to do a cold reading so you know what to expect.

Yes, here's a link to a description, Tacenda: Cold reading

By the way, thanks The Nehor for mentioning this thing, cold reading. Had never heard of it, but it immediate piqued my curiosity.  I easily found a few videos on it in YouTube!  One of them was how to use "cold reading" as a sales tool!  Amazing stuff!  Also a video on Orson Welles who said he did it as a kind of hobby -- or maybe once he did it, after talking with old retired pyschics who had made their living using the technique for a living.  And how some of them begin to think they actually can read people, because of their apparent success.  Here's Welles:

 

 

Edited by Stargazer

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On 12/6/2018 at 9:37 AM, The Nehor said:

I encourage you to read up on how to do a cold reading so you know what to expect.

 

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

 

Yes, here's a link to a description, Tacenda: Cold reading

By the way, thanks The Nehor for mentioning this thing, cold reading. Had never heard of it, but it immediate piqued my curiosity.  I easily found a few videos on it in YouTube!  One of them was how to use "cold reading" as a sales tool!  Amazing stuff!  Also a video on Orson Welles who said he did it as a kind of hobby -- or maybe once he did it, after talking with old retired pyschics who had made their living using the technique for a living.  And how some of them begin to think they actually can read people, because of their apparent success.  Here's Welles:

 

 

So since there are those that do these cold readings, there isn't room for the real ones? Please listen or read the following link on Mediums, and hopefully you will show me respect by doing so. Because hey, I looked at what you gave me and read all about cold readings, which helped me gear up for tomorrow!! https://skeptiko.com/julie-beischel-research-after-death-communication-371/

Edited by Tacenda

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

 

So since there are those that do these cold readings, there isn't room for the real ones?

Didn't say that.  I'll admit to a great deal of skepticism, however. What I am saying is that I think there are lot more charlatans out there than real ones. If you find a real one, great.  If you know the methods of the charlatans, this should insulate you against them.

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

\Please listen or read the following link on Mediums, and hopefully you will show me respect by doing so. Because hey, I looked at what you gave me and read all about cold readings, which helped me gear up for tomorrow!! https://skeptiko.com/julie-beischel-research-after-death-communication-371/

OK!  Listening now...

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43 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Didn't say that.  I'll admit to a great deal of skepticism, however. What I am saying is that I think there are lot more charlatans out there than real ones. If you find a real one, great.  If you know the methods of the charlatans, this should insulate you against them.

OK!  Listening now...

Thanks 💕, let me know what you think. With my niece being a Medium I tried hard not to be skeptical since that would put her in a bad spot.  But reading her reviews says to me she isn't. She gave me a reading over the phone a few years ago, she's in California, and I thought she knows me too well and my parents are her grandparents, but with all of that she said some astounding things. And she's known since childhood that spirits talk to her, but it's in the last few years that she came out with it. I wanted to go to someone that doesn't know me to see what they come up with. I know they'll be able to get a lot of info from my FB profile so if it's going to be that kind of information and nothing more, I'll know I've been had.

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Have you already given them your name?  If not, give a version that won't tie you to anything online.  That way they can't do research on you...unless they have a confederate listening in from another room who can look things up and relay it to them through an earpiece.

And pay in cash, not credit card.  This could help prevent him using your name for research as well if he asks to be paid up front.

Edited by Calm

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