Disturbing New Statistics about Seminary

[MustardSeed]

10 minutes ago, Danzo said:

High school seems to have been designed as a way for students to accomplish the least amount of education possible in the most amount of time.

One of the better decisions we made was to quit high school for our 16 year old.

He was way too busy with both seminary and high school at the same time, starting early in the morning and ending late in the evening.

Definitely Unhealthy and unproductive. 

We just had him take the GED and start attending community college. 

Now he only goes to school two days a week, has the other three days free to do homework.

As a bonus, he gets college credit for the classes he is taking (he is considered a full time student).

 

 

My daughter quit seminary and did the same thing, it worked for her.  My son gets a lot out of public school, it’s a great fit for him.  I’m glad there are options for different kids. 

[longview]

I will never forget sitting in class for release time seminary watching a movie with its introduction booming out very loudly:

"Stories from the Book of Mormon!"

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I hope such things get reported to local authorities in the Church.  Alleviating such errors in judgment by the teacher is, I think, a better course of action than a parent openly insulting the teacher in front of the youth of the Church.

As a parent, I wouldn't want a teacher saying such wrong things to my sons and daughters.  But I also would not want another parent to openly denigrate the teacher in front of my sons and daughters.

"She was wrong," followed by an explanation why she was wrong.  That would probably be helpful to teens.  But not "she was a fool."  

Thanks,

-Smac

Noted. 

[Danzo]

5 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

My daughter quit seminary and did the same thing, it worked for her.  My son gets a lot out of public school, it’s a great fit for him.  I’m glad there are options for different kids. 

I think quitting  seminary can be a good option, especially if your family has regular scripture and gospel study. 

I think too often we can forget that the family is the fundamental unit of the church, and the church (as an institution) is there to support the family, not the other way around.  

In a sense, we don't leave the home to go to church.  We should be already at church.

 

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You do realize tha seminary is optional, right?

Yeah but at the Stake seminary kick-off  lectures they remind (threats) that if you want to serve a foreign mission or go to a church school seminary graduation is basically required.

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by bsjkki

[Danzo]

29 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Yeah but at the Stake seminary kick-off  lectures they remind (threats) that if you want to serve a foreign mission or go to a church school seminary graduation is basically required.

 

I have never that seminary is a requirement to go to a foreign mission. Do you have a reference for that?

Or seminary being a prerequisite to going to BYU?

[bsjkki]

30 minutes ago, Danzo said:

I have never that seminary is a requirement to go to a foreign mission. Do you have a reference for that?

Or seminary being a prerequisite to going to BYU?

That is what they told the kids and parents at out Stake kick-off event for years. It bugged me. I don’t think it is official. I didn’t think they should bully kids into attending and it wasn’t a proper motivation technique. The parents and kids who show up at a kick-off event are already “sold” anyway. 

[MustardSeed]

I’ve always understood this to be the case as well, though my daughter who quit going was accepted to Provo. She is well and thriving.  

[The Nehor]

“Called to serve in the Boise Idaho Mission”

”What?!?!?! But I had four years perfect attendance in seminary! This is some kind of mistake! The apostles are wrong! The church is false! I am going to go hire a prostitute and desecrate a church!”

[smac97]

3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Quote

Or seminary being a prerequisite to going to BYU?

That is what they told the kids and parents at out Stake kick-off event for years. It bugged me. I don’t think it is official. I didn’t think they should bully kids into attending and it wasn’t a proper motivation technique. The parents and kids who show up at a kick-off event are already “sold” anyway. 

I dunno.  I know of a number of youth who dropped out of seminary (usually on fairly trivial grounds, e.g. "it's boring"), only to find out later that their application to BYU was hampered by that decision.  

From BYU's website:

Quote

LDS Seminary: Individuals are encouraged to participate in LDS seminary during each year of high school. Brigham Young University is committed to the concept that thoughtful and consistent study of the scriptures is vital to the preparation of those desiring to enter the university. The number of years of LDS seminary completed (released-time, early morning, online, or home study) and the quality of that study are additional considerations in undergraduate admission decisions.

My son is currently working on his Eagle.  He's not super enthusiastic about it, but part of his motivation for doing so is that it will bolster his applications to colleges, so he's sticking with it.  And in sticking with it, he is benefitting from the work he's putting into it.

Perhaps seminary attendance can be viewed in a similar way.

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I dunno.  I know of a number of youth who dropped out of seminary (usually on fairly trivial grounds, e.g. "it's boring"), only to find out later that their application to BYU was hampered by that decision.  

From BYU's website:

My son is currently working on his Eagle.  He's not super enthusiastic about it, but part of his motivation for doing so is that it will bolster his applications to colleges, so he's sticking with it.  And in sticking with it, he is benefitting from the work he's putting into it.

Perhaps seminary attendance can be viewed in a similar way.

Thanks,

-Smac

Unless he is going to BYU I doubt that Eagle will help much. Its value has diminished. My leaders when I was a youth lied to me saying it would be good for my resume.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Seminary is not a priority in my heart or mind.  

I’m not hopeful for my eternal future- I recognize that many people would choose seminary over opportunity to take AP heavy course load or extra curricular. I am not that person.

My son chooses to do it all, and pays the price in sleep deprivation.  

Independent study is an option, though that misses out on the social aspect.

Does he have problems falling asleep to make the most of his hours?  If so, there are some good sleep hygiene practices that can help. (I have a genetic sleep disorder that probably started affecting my sleep by the time I was ten if not earlier, so I know way too much about this stuff, let me know if you want some references).

[smac97]

Just now, The Nehor said:

Unless he is going to BYU I doubt that Eagle will help much. Its value has diminished. My leaders when I was a youth lied to me saying it would be good for my resume.

He's also thinking of joining the National Guard.  He could go in as an E3/PFC if he has his Eagle.  So there's that.

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, smac97 said:

He's also thinking of joining the National Guard.  He could go in as an E3/PFC if he has his Eagle.  So there's that.

Thanks,

-Smac

Ah yes, if you are going military it is still a help.

[Avatar4321]

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

There was a BYU Religious Educator article from some years ago written by Elder Gerald N. Lund, who said something like Seminary is important but rarely pivotal. TBH, I spent more time un learning what I learned in Seminary, because I had some zany teachers and I have forgotten the rest-I remember going, the people but...

I remember sleeping and donuts

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Avatar4321 said:

I remember sleeping and donuts

On good days they had bearclaws.

[Thinking]

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I’m glad there are options for different kids. 

This.

I teach at a public high school. Several years ago one of our assistant principals home schooled one of his own children because public school wasn't working for him.

[Bob Crockett]

I teach early morning seminary.  It is almost useless as most of the kids come in with 10 minutes to go and they are largely there for fun and games.  Stake seminary teachers are not supervised all that well and are easily forgotten.  

But, seminary is there to permit kids to have extended contact with an adult who has been successful in the church and has a testimony.  Some nuggets of information might be retained and in fact is retained.  

I enjoy my time, even though it severely disrupts my time to go out for a run.   I think it is a big help to most.   

I know that at least for me, it is a big help and anchor.  

Edited November 13, 2018 by Bob Crockett

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Seminary is not a priority in my heart or mind.  

I’m not hopeful for my eternal future- I recognize that many people would choose seminary over opportunity to take AP heavy course load or extra curricular. I am not that person.

My son chooses to do it all, and pays the price in sleep deprivation.  

Well, then I can see why you would believe it's not important.  I'm guessing it's a priority for your son since he's doing it?

[smac97]

58 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I teach early morning seminary.  It is almost useless as most of the kids come in with 10 minutes to go and they are largely there for fun and games.  Stake seminary teachers are not supervised all that well and are easily forgotten.  

But, seminary is there to permit kids to have extended contact with an adult who has been successful in the church and has a testimony.  Some nuggets of information might be retained and in fact is retained.  

I enjoy my time, even though it severely disrupts my time to go out for a run.   I think it is a big help to most.   

I know that at least for me, it is a big help and anchor.  

My wife attended all four years of early morning seminary.  It was a very important experience for her in terms of her spiritual growth and testimony, even though others were - as you pu *** "largely there for fun and games."

I can't help but contrast this with my experience with release-time seminary (I grew up in Utah, my wife in Washington State), and the limited appreciation I had for it.  Much of that was on me, I think.

I live in Provo, and due to odd demographics my ward only has 4 young men aged 12-17, two of which are mine.  They are involved in every aspect of service offered by the Aaronic Priesthood.  They help prepare and pass the Sacrament every Sunday.  They act as ushers every Sunday.  They collect Fast Offerings.  The older one takes the Sacrament to shut-ins every Sunday.  They help put up the flags and take them down on every relevant holiday.  They participate in every service project. 

These obligations are taxing and a little time-consuming, but not really onerous.  They are coming to appreciate the value of serving others.  They see that if they don't do it, it won't get done.  They've moved through lazy/indifferent/resentful phases, and are increasingly willing to stand forth and fulfill their duties without complaint, and even with some cheer.

Necessity is the mother of invention.  Perhaps sometimes necessity helps strengthen testimonies, too.  Seminary can be like that.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited November 13, 2018 by smac97

[cinepro]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You do realize tha seminary is optional, right?

Oh my gosh.  When our oldest son was entering high school, it was a huge struggle to get him to go to Seminary from day one.  I wasn't being very helpful, and when I pointed out to my wife that I have no problem making him go to Church but that Seminary is "optional", you would have thought I had suggested pulling him out of school and sending him to clown college.

Your comment just gave me a flashback to that night on the couch...

Ironically, our second child was very motivated to go to seminary, but then her Senior year they called the one teacher in the stake that my wife would not allow our daughter to be taught by, so we asked that she be allowed to do home study.  They wouldn't allow it, so she didn't graduate

We'll see if our third child is the one to actually make it.

 

FWIW, among all the rumors of changes at the last Conference, I was hoping for reducing the number of Seminary days to something like Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday or something like that.  There's no reason it has to be five days a week.

Edited November 13, 2018 by cinepro

[bsjkki]

I have mixed feelings about seminary. Part of me hates it. I’m tired. For some of my kids it was a negative experience. A few bad teachers....bullying. For my academic high achiever, she liked it but it led to sleep deprivation and grumpiness at times. (The AP load was intense with homework.)  She didn’t really have friends but it did encourage her to read all her scriptures. For my current seminary student, it has been great. Good teachers, it has helped her make friends who are members. I think it has really supported her anchor to the Gospel. It’s is all the things a parent would hope for. 

My autistic child was ignored.

Kids are not the same and the Seminary experience varies. 

 

[MustardSeed]

30 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Well, then I can see why you would believe it's not important.  I'm guessing it's a priority for your son since he's doing it?

He’s like me, obedient. And tired. 

[bsjkki]

5 minutes ago, cinepro said:

They wouldn't allow it, so she didn't graduate

I don’t understand this? Why be so controlling. I don’t understand why home study must be “approved.” It should be a parents choice.

[Danzo]

2 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I dunno.  I know of a number of youth who dropped out of seminary (usually on fairly trivial grounds, e.g. "it's boring"), only to find out later that their application to BYU was hampered by that decision.  

From BYU's website:

My son is currently working on his Eagle.  He's not super enthusiastic about it, but part of his motivation for doing so is that it will bolster his applications to colleges, so he's sticking with it.  And in sticking with it, he is benefitting from the work he's putting into it.

Perhaps seminary attendance can be viewed in a similar way.

Thanks,

-Smac

I think seminary is a good thing. We encourage our children to attend

The benefit of attending Seminary are an increased knowledge of the scriptures and ability to draw closer to God through study and prayer.   This is benefit enough, in my opinion.  Increasing one chance to get into BYU probably wouldn't justify attendance by itself.

 

The whole foreign mission thing, I don't really think is true (Unless there we a recent policy change).