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halconero

The Ongoing Restoration

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12 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I like the idea that the restoration is ongoing, that squares well with the AoF and its helpful to view things as an ever changing progression with some fits and starts along the way.  This is what a careful review of history shows and we need to pay attention to the trends of history.  

But I don't like the whole buckle up and get ready mentality, or hastening the work, or we're in the eleventh hour, so now is the time.  This kind of language is too much like sales tactics for my comfort.  Buy today, this is a limited offer and if you don't act now you'll forfeit your opportunity.  Or a death bed repentance kind of theology.  

If we as Mormons believe that God is fair and consistent, then we should apply this idea to everything we teach.  God isn't in a rush, God wants us to do things orderly and not take short cuts.  God wants us to make substantive and deliberate decisions, not hasty and rash ones.  This life is a marathon, not a sprint.  Lets use our best judgment here, instead of trying to work people up into a revival like frenzy.  

God said he would hasten his work not us.  The hastening is for our benefit not his. 

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On 10/31/2018 at 12:53 PM, stemelbow said:

Is that how revelation works?  “I will reveal all of it to you but you must follow this calendar of events in giving only abit at a time.  If you don’t I’ll take away that which you have.”

Yup.  Line upon line, precept upon precept. That’s exactly how it works.   Mix in a little hastening and you get a sped up version that we are seeing now. 

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On 10/31/2018 at 12:59 PM, pogi said:

Dang, that is pushing pretty close to the centenarian mark...

I hope he lives to see all his visions fulfilled.  So far, he is looking remarkably strong for 94, so I wouldn't say it is impossible. 

 

Or it may be that he is projecting beyond his own lifetime. In fact, I’d say that’s more than likely. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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On 10/31/2018 at 10:46 AM, stemelbow said:

He makes it sound like he's implementing changes in stages as in introducing a new business model.  how does he know when revelated changes will come?  If he knows about them why is he waiting and drawing this out?  

Seriously, a revelation comes to him and he sits on it so he can spread them out to excite the masses, keep them tuning in and all of that?  I think he's feeling good about his ideas and running with them, and then saying God's doing it.  

Yes, if one is cynical enough, I suppose one could draw that conclusion or those conclusions.  On the other hand, there is Mosiah 4:27 to consider.  And President Nelson hardly is the first prophet, seer, and revelator in this dispensation to allude to what is to come:

Quote

But allow me to tell you, Elders of Israel, and delegates to Congress, you may expect an eternity of cats, that have not yet escaped from the bag. Bless your souls, there is no end to them, for if there is not one thing, there will always be another.  (JOD 1:29).

 

Edited by Kenngo1969
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6 hours ago, e-eye said:

Yup.  Line upon line, precept upon precept. That’s exactly how it works.   Mix in a little hastening and you get a sped up version that we are seeing now. 

This is quite a slowed down version from what it was back in the day.  I suppose it's sped up from the Hinckley/MOnson reigns.

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2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Yes, if one is cynical enough, I suppose one could draw that conclusion or those conclusions.  On the other hand, there is Mosiah 4:27 to consider.  And President Nelson hardly is the first prophet, seer, and revelator in this dispensation to allude to what is to come:

 

Well whatever the case, accusations of cynicism aside, this sounds like implementing business procedures bit by bit type of stuff to me.  That coupled with his wife's explanation of how he's been personally holding onto and thinking of this stuff for years waiting for the time to get the power to implement speaks to that.  I'm not particularly concerned if that's what revelation amounts to.  It certainly can't be far off.  But then again, there is absolutely nothing unique about it.  That means continuing revelation, of course, is not just happening in the Mormon Church these days.  It's happening everywhere.  

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15 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Well whatever the case, accusations of cynicism aside, this sounds like implementing business procedures bit by bit type of stuff to me.  That coupled with his wife's explanation of how he's been personally holding onto and thinking of this stuff for years waiting for the time to get the power to implement speaks to that.  I'm not particularly concerned if that's what revelation amounts to.  It certainly can't be far off.  But then again, there is absolutely nothing unique about it.  That means continuing revelation, of course, is not just happening in the Mormon Church these days.  It's happening everywhere.  

11986794-wrong.jpg

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This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. It's quite clear that presidents guide the church according to their personal views. Brigham Young and the early presidents were of the opinion that black people were inherently evil and established church policies according to that belief. More recent church leaders instructed members to not play card games and that birth control was wrong among other things. 

If you feel what President Nelson teaches is right then that is just fine. However, if you feel anything he says or does is not right then pay attention to that feeling. History tells us that there might be a good reason you don't feel right about it.

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1 hour ago, 10THAmendment said:

If you feel what President Nelson teaches is right then that is just fine. However, if you feel anything he says or does is not right then pay attention to that feeling. History tells us that there might be a good reason you don't feel right about it.

Agreed.  And we've been asked to pray about their teachings.

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9 hours ago, e-eye said:

God said he would hasten his work not us.  The hastening is for our benefit not his. 

I just pinged God to double check, and apparently this was a big misunderstanding.  He really wants people to be humble in their work, not hasten his work.  Big miss there by those imperfect scribes again... 

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2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

This is quite a slowed down version from what it was back in the day.  I suppose it's sped up from the Hinckley/MOnson reigns.

If anything, its slowed down today.  Early Mormons and Early Christians all have predicted the end times within their lifetimes.  Frenzied thinking can be an effective motivational tool.  

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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

11986794-wrong.jpg

nah..it's right.  I mean everywhere might be a bit of an exaggeration but it's gotta be close seeing as it's all being defined here--humdrum, implementing certain procedures and ideas once power is achieved.  

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11 hours ago, e-eye said:

Yup.  Line upon line, precept upon precept. That’s exactly how it works.   Mix in a little hastening and you get a sped up version that we are seeing now. 

So if you could help me a little...what line in this revelation that we're getting bit by bit is getting added to a previous one?  

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47 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

nah..it's right.  I mean everywhere might be a bit of an exaggeration but it's gotta be close seeing as it's all being defined here--humdrum, implementing certain procedures and ideas once power is achieved.  

Nope.

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1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Nope.

So you must think the LDS version of revelation is unique.  The inspiration of political leaders, or corporate thinkers is not revelation quite like the inspiration of Pres Nelson implicating Satan for tricking members to say Mormon?  

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57 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

So you must think the LDS version of revelation is unique.  The inspiration of political leaders, or corporate thinkers is not revelation quite like the inspiration of Pres Nelson implicating Satan for tricking members to say Mormon?  

I do not believe inspiration and revelation are synonyms.

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I do not believe inspiration and revelation are synonyms.

Neither do I but I am frequently told otherwise by the faithful on this board and that it is a distinction without a difference.

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I recall David Whitner & Oliver Cowdery discussing a continuation to the restoration at one point. Does anyone know anything about this or know any other mentions?

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5 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

I recall David Whitner & Oliver Cowdery discussing a continuation to the restoration at one point. Does anyone know anything about this or know any other mentions?

I’m not familiar with this, but there is this more recent statement from Elder Ballard:

“Remember, the Restoration is not an event, but it continues to unfold.”

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14 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

... Brigham Young and the early presidents were of the opinion that black people were inherently evil ...

CFR.  TIA! :) 

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13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I do not believe inspiration and revelation are synonyms.

 

11 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Neither do I but I am frequently told otherwise by the faithful on this board and that it is a distinction without a difference.

Depending upon how you define and contextualize it, inspiration can be considered a form of revelation. 

I would define revelation as being any communication from God to mortals.** This might happen in any of a variety of forms, including visions, dreams, personal visitations — and, more commonly, thoughts or impressions placed in the mind and heart. The latter form I would characterize as inspiration. 

To those who would deny that inspiration has any semblance of revelation, I would ask: If some thoughts and impressions come from God, and if we are to regard that as inspiration, would that not coincide with the definition I have given here for revelation, i.e. communication from God to one or more mortals?

___

** Revelation may be either general (given to a prophet to convey to the people) or personal (intended for the recipient only). 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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On 11/1/2018 at 12:45 AM, The Nehor said:

Nah, there has been quite a bit.

Our understanding of the atonement has been deepened in many ways with enhanced details, the further explanations and understanding of what the Father and the Son both endured in the atonement, the way women operate with the power of the Priesthood even though they do not currently hold it (always true, but not spoke of), some of the mercies held out to those amongst us with emotional and mental and physical problems have been expounded, the requirements for exaltation have been clarified in what perfection means, and much much more.

That's an awesome perspective, Nehor.

Would love to see some quotes containing new doctrine or theology that wasn't already revealed before JFS (i.e. during the lives of JS and his contemporaries).

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On 11/2/2018 at 8:51 AM, 10THAmendment said:

If you feel what President Nelson teaches is right then that is just fine. However, if you feel anything he says or does is not right then pay attention to that feeling. History tells us that there might be a good reason you don't feel right about it.

History also tells us that some people have no good reason for not feeling right about something.  

We all know of examples where someone felt very strongly that something was right, and it turned out that they were wrong.  And we know of examples of the opposite happening as well.  Simply having a strong feeling one way or the other doesn't, by itself, mean anything.  Both deluded people and enlightened people have strong feelings about things.

I think that's what makes this topic so difficult.  No one can use 'I have a strong feeling' as proof of anything.

 
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I was listening to Jacob 5 and this passage reminded me of this thread:

“And the Lord of the vineyard said unto the servant: Pluck not the wild branches from the trees, save it be those which are most bitter; and in them ye shall graft according to that which I have said.

58 And we will nourish again the trees of the vineyard, and we will trim up the branches thereof; and we will pluck from the trees those branches which are ripened, that must perish, and cast them into the fire.

59 And this I do that, perhaps, the roots thereof may take strength because of their goodness; and because of the change of the branches, that the good may overcomethe evil.” Jacob 5:57-59

i wonder if that’s part of what’s going on. The Lord is grafting in new branches and pulling out bad ideas or practices

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