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rodheadlee

what is our position on the Caravan

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 what is our position on the Caravan headed to our borders?

 I got so angry watching Fox news last night with those guys and gals invoking God's name praying that the Caravan doesn't reach our border. What are your thoughts?

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1 minute ago, changed said:

I live near the boarder, and work with migrants.  I love them.  They are humble, kind, family centered, hard working, incredible people.

Clearly you have been corrupted by people you actually know and associate with. If you want to understand reality you need to watch more Fox News. Hope this helps.

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I think the Lord wants all of His children to have the chance to be free and prosper.  However, I also believe that He does not believe that other of His children should be forced to pay or subsidize the immigrants. (i.e. taxes to support social services).  Taking the private property of some by force through taxes to give to others is not the Lord's way..  He would want us to act voluntarily in helping others.

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46 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

 what is our position on the Caravan headed to our borders? ..................

Not sure that we as a Church have a position on that specific group of people from Central America.  Maybe something about refugees.  The official Church seems to ignore questions about legal immigrant status in calling missionaries.  What about Ex 22:21, Lev 19:34, Deut 10:19?

Quote

""Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt."

"You must treat the foreigner living among you as native-born and love him as yourself, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God."

"So you also must love the foreigner, since you yourselves were foreigners in the land of Egypt."

 

Edited by Robert F. Smith
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42 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

 what is our position on the Caravan headed to our borders?

 I got so angry watching Fox news last night with those guys and gals invoking God's name praying that the Caravan doesn't reach our border. What are your thoughts?

By “our,” I assume you mean the Church of Jesus Christ. What position would you expect the Church to take on it, bearing in mind that it is rare for the Church to take positions on political matters and there must be a compelling need when it does so. Furthermore, it is common for good members of the Church to disagree politically. That is pretty much expected within reason. 

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2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Not sure that we as a Church have a position on that specific group of people from Central America.  Maybe something about refugees.  The official Church seems to ignore questions about legal immigrant status in calling missionaries.  What about Ex 22:21, Lev 19:34, Deut 10:19?

 

I’ve heard Church leaders say the Church recognizes the right of individual nations to secure their borders. 

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44 minutes ago, changed said:

I live near the boarder, and work with migrants.  I love them.  They are humble, kind, family centered, hard working, incredible people.

Sounds racist to me.  Racial sterotyping is not acceptable.

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41 minutes ago, freedad said:

I think the Lord wants all of His children to have the chance to be free and prosper.  However, I also believe that He does not believe that other of His children should be forced to pay or subsidize the immigrants. (i.e. taxes to support social services).  Taking the private property of some by force through taxes to give to others is not the Lord's way..  He would want us to act voluntarily in helping others.

I am sure that those who are suffering appreciate being sacrificed so we can bask in our bank accounts and non-scriptural principles about what an abomination government assistance to the distressed is.

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1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said:

But wait, I didn't see anything about the Minutemen (grab your rifle and go down to the border!) there..? ;)

Called that because their IQ is roughly the same as the number of seconds in a minute.

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This is something I am conflicted on. I am opposed to a forced, disorderly process. But I have no idea how this caravan should be dealt with. It may fall apart as have some others. I don't know how those in that march have been able to be nourished during this long trek.

On a moral front I would really like to accept more migrants from our South American neighbors. I believe that it would be better to let them come in via a front door where they could be vetted and documented. If they are here working and earning money and getting educated (and maybe even proselyted) they would be adding to our economy.

Maybe a lot of them would choose to stay given the chance. And maybe the bulk of them would be able to return to their native countries armed with their new found financial stability and education to be able to influence the political and financial futures there. And most of them would go back as our friends.

Glenn

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3 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

This is something I am conflicted on. I am opposed to a forced, disorderly process. But I have no idea how this caravan should be dealt with. It may fall apart as have some others. I don't know how those in that march have been able to be nourished during this long trek.

On a moral front I would really like to accept more migrants from our South American neighbors. I believe that it would be better to let them come in via a front door where they could be vetted and documented. If they are here working and earning money and getting educated (and maybe even proselyted) they would be adding to our economy.

Maybe a lot of them would choose to stay given the chance. And maybe the bulk of them would be able to return to their native countries armed with their new found financial stability and education to be able to influence the political and financial futures there. And most of them would go back as our friends.

Glenn

Most of the caravan is from Honduras with some Guatemalans and probably a couple of other nationalities mixed in. Honduras is a cesspool right now of violence and poverty. I would probably be running too. :( 

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1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

We have immigration laws. I believe those laws should be enforced. There are clear processes people must follow to be allowed entrance into our country.... just as there are for every other country in the world. If we think the laws are too restrictive or too lax, then we should change them. 

When I lived in Honduras and Nicaragua, my movements were followed by the authorities. I had to exit and renter the country periodically to verify my continued presence. Failure to do that could result in forced expulsion or imprisonment. They were not kidding.

Mexico has strict entry laws, but they allow thousands of people to enter from the south, cross the entire length of their country, and exit into the US without impediment. Try that from our side. Mexico must step up not only to enforce its own laws, but to provide sanctuary and aid for its poorer neighbors. 

These poor people are shamelessly being used and abused financially andphysically by evil people and politically by corrupt governments and officials. They are pawns in a much larger game and victims of corruption every step of the way. Those countries should be held responsible for the health and welfare of their own people. We do much to help them, but corruption abounds. The Catholic Church needs to step up its game in those countries.  I am all for immigration so long as it is rational, legal, and safe.

Okay, part that is very wrong. Crossing the southern border into Mexico frim Guatemala is much more dangerous then crossing the US southern border. We can and probably should do more to point out the hypocrisy of Mexico wanting us to loosen our immigration standards when murder, rape, and theft are not at all rare on their border. It is probably easier to cross now then the in the past. Mexico has shifted its enforcement efforts further north against the cartels but this might be short-sighted as most of the cartel weaponry is being shipped over the border from Central American nations.

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6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Mexico has strict entry laws, but they allow thousands of people to enter from the south, cross the entire length of their country, and exit into the US without impediment. Try that from our side

I live on the Mexican-American border. I can cross the bridge at El Paso into Mexico for 25 cents and nothing but my driver's license. When I was a teenager, not even the driver's license was needed (it's funny that in 30 years they haven't upped the price from a quarter).

So yes, I have tried it from our side, and it is about as easy as can be.

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4 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

The borders of the USA are very secure, and have been for many years.  Propaganda that our borders leak like a sieve is a powerful ploy, but it is false just the same.  What we do have are refugees coming from various nations to our legal points of entry and applying for asylum.  These are legal, orderly processes and can take years to complete.  Other people come from various countries on student and tourist visas and overstay.  They become illegal aliens, not because they are raping and robbing (they do that less than native born Americans), but because they do not have current permission to be here.  Totalitarian regimes seldom have a problem of that kind, both because they are tightly controlled and because people want to leave rather than come.

A free and open society such as ours is particularly vulnerable to people finding a way into this country and then making a home here.  It is illegal, but understandable.  People love America and vote with their feet.  They pay their own way, and are not actually a financial burden on our polity.  They even buttress our failing and falling birthrates with needed workers to help support our aging population.  All of us have ancestors who came here to make a better life.

Unfortunately, U.S. immigration laws in the past have been very discriminatory -- anti-Asian, anti-Hispanic, etc.  We need fair, reasonable immigration laws.

But the issue is that they are overwhelming our system with non-qualifying claims to a point where they get to stay years with work permits and then either not show up to their hearing or have qualified for a stay of removal based on having lasting connections in the US. (Eg. having a US citizen child while waiting for asylum)

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