Popular Post Calm Posted October 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2018 https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/we-are-accountable-god-how-we-treat-earth-elder-snow Quote “[We will] be held accountable for how we treat one another, the community in which we live, and the land that surrounds us, even the earth itself,” said Elder Snow, who was one of four participants in a panel discussion Wednesday, October 10, 2018, at an environmental stewardship symposium at Utah State University. “That stewardship has never been more urgent. Our generation, more than any other, has the ability to irretrievably change the land.” I am glad to see this mentioned on lds.org homepage. 8 Link to comment
Thinking Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) Environmental responsibility has to include population control IMO. The earth has finite resources and as one population grows, another has to decrease. If we humans don't control ourselves consciously, nature will take care of it eventually. Cue the "the second coming will come first" faction. Edited October 27, 2018 by Thinking Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Ever fly over Montana? 4 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted October 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2018 Just now, Thinking said: Environmental responsibility has include population control IMO. The earth has finite resources and as one population grows, another has to decrease. If we humans don't control ourselves consciously, nature will take care of it eventually. Cue the "the second coming will come first" faction. As societies develop in the last few centuries the birth rate drops off. Many nations are dipping towards the negative and the US has a very slow growth rate. Unless we convert the world the LDS tendency to have more children will not be a problem in the foreseeable future. And of course the Second Coming probably will wipe out over 80% of the population (my personal guess would be in the 90-95% range) so yes, that will help too. 6 Link to comment
CV75 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 11 hours ago, Calm said: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/we-are-accountable-god-how-we-treat-earth-elder-snow I am glad to see this mentioned on lds.org homepage. ...and here as well: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/environment-statements https://www.lds.org/topics/environmental-stewardship-and-conservation?lang=eng 2 Link to comment
snowflake Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Calm said: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/we-are-accountable-god-how-we-treat-earth-elder-snow I am glad to see this mentioned on lds.org homepage. Sad to see the centuries old idea of "worship the creature not the creator" lie seeping into LDS culture. It is to be expected though, I have been taught this nonsense since elementary school. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, snowflake said: Sad to see the centuries old idea of "worship the creature not the creator" lie seeping into LDS culture. It is to be expected though, I have been taught this nonsense since elementary school. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1 I didn’t see “Praise Gaia” anywhere in there. 3 Link to comment
USU78 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 9 hours ago, Thinking said: Environmental responsibility has include population control IMO. The earth has finite resources and as one population grows, another has to decrease. If we humans don't control ourselves consciously, nature will take care of it eventually. Cue the "the second coming will come first" faction. Thus demonstrating the fundamental misanthropy of the trendylefty NIMBY crowd. 1 Link to comment
ksfisher Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Just now, snowflake said: Sad to see the centuries old idea of "worship the creature not the creator" lie seeping into LDS culture. It is to be expected though, I have been taught this nonsense since elementary school. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1 So you disagree with the idea that we should care for the earth? Link to comment
RevTestament Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, snowflake said: Sad to see the centuries old idea of "worship the creature not the creator" lie seeping into LDS culture. It is to be expected though, I have been taught this nonsense since elementary school. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1 So loving your fellow man is a no no in your brand of Christianity? Link to comment
The Nehor Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 When anything an apostle says conflicts with my political views I toss it aside as them speaking as a man. One is fallible. The other is not. PS: I am not an idolater. Why would you think that? 1 Link to comment
pogi Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, snowflake said: Sad to see the centuries old idea of "worship the creature not the creator" lie seeping into LDS culture. It is to be expected though, I have been taught this nonsense since elementary school. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1 Who said anything about worshiping creature. Environmental stewardship is to worship and respect our/it's creator. These principles are not purely cultural, they are scriptural. The governing Church (not the culture) encourage us to follow principles of sustainability. Here are some of my favorite parts from the Church's essay on environmental stewardship and conservation: Quote We learn respect and humility when we work with nature and not against it. It allows us to see the works of God that bear testimony of Him (see Alma 30:44). However, all are stewards—not owners—over this earth and its bounty and will be accountable before God for what they do with His creations (see D&C 104:13–15). What does it mean to be a steward of the earth and its resources? God has made us accountable for the care and preservation of the earth and the wise use of its resources (see D&C 104:13–15). As stewards, we avoid complacency and excessive consumption, using only what is necessary (see D&C 49:19–21). We make our homes, neighborhoods, and cities beautiful. We preserve resources and protect for future generations the spiritual and temporal blessings of nature. Wasn’t the earth created with enough resources for all? The earth is endowed with an array of natural resources that will provide for the human family if they are used as the Lord instructed—to care for the poor and the needy and not use more than is needed (see D&C 104:14–18); to avoid waste (see D&C 49:19–21); and not to forcibly take resources from another (see D&C 59:20). The fulness of the earth is to be used with wisdom and restraint. https://www.lds.org/topics/environmental-stewardship-and-conservation?lang=eng Edited October 26, 2018 by pogi 3 Link to comment
smac97 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, snowflake said: Sad to see the centuries old idea of "worship the creature not the creator" lie seeping into LDS culture. It is to be expected though, I have been taught this nonsense since elementary school. I don't see "worship the creature" happening. Care for the environment is, I think, an important stewardship issue (practical stuff, not the trite, virtue-signalling, misanthropic silliness that passes for "environmentalism" in some quarters). Unfortunately, environmentalism is carrying a lot of baggage these days (see here for some examples). There is, I think, a deeply-entrenched stain of profound misanthropy in the minds of many self-styled "environmentalists." Hatred of humans. Hatred of unborn humans. Self-loathing. Encouraging others to self-loath. See, e.g., the following: Environmentalism's Deep Misanthropy Quote In recent years, deep misanthropy has seeped into the popular culture. For example, the 2008 remake of The Day the Earth Stood Still starred Keanu Reeves as Klaatu, an alien come to earth to commit total genocide to “save the earth.” At the end, he shows “mercy” by stripping us of our technology”an event which, were it actually to occur, would result in billions of human deaths. Illustrating how times have changed, the 1951 original version had Klaatu on earth to save humans, not wipe us out. This deep misanthropy has found its way into curricula. A few years ago, for example, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation website carried a children’s feature called Planet Slayer , featuring “Dr. Schpinkee’s Greenhouse Calculator,” with which kids added up their carbon score. The game ended with a “carbon hog” bloodily exploding. Data then told children how much longer they could live until they used up their respective “share of the planet””strongly implying a duty to die thereafter in order not to be a plague on the earth. Deep misanthropy has helped renew the Malthusian drive to radically depopulate the planet of people as a remedy for environmental ills and human deprivation. Population Matters, for example, would have us voluntarily reduce our current population of seven billion by about half to save the planet. Another Population Matters patron, Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb , says the optimal human count would be much lower, around 1.5 billion. Like The Day the Earth Stood Still , such advocacy has distinct genocidal overtones. But the Malthusians always assure us that they only support “non-coercive” measures, such as legally mandated access to “reproductive health””which means, in part, contraception and universal abortion-on-demand. Environmentalists against humans: Green is the Color of Misanthropy Quote I have long noted a virulent strain of rabid misanthropy among the intelligentsia of the environmental movement. From professors longing for the next deadly infectious disease strain to come along to philosophers who peg the ideal human population at 100 million, only 1.4 percent of the present population of 7.1 billion, hatred of humanity is not uncommon. In a short but insightful article in 1990 Robert James Bidinotto quoted a number of environmental thought leaders – and those down in the trenches – who displayed outright contempt for human aspirations, achievements and life. Quote ““Is it not perverse to prefer the lives of mice and guinea pigs to the lives of men and women?” asks philosopher Patrick Corbett. Not really, because “if we stand back from the scientific and technological rat race for a moment, we realize that, since animals are in many respects superior to ourselves, the argument collapses.” “Man,” snarls Michael W. Fox in his book, Returning to Eden, “is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on earth.” David Graber, a biologist for the National Park Service, expressed his own hopes thusly: Quote Human happiness, and certainly human fecundity, are not as important as a wild and healthy planet. I know social scientists who remind me that people are part of nature, but it isn’t true. Somewhere along the line—at about a million years ago, maybe half that—we quit the contract and became a cancer. We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon the Earth . . . . Until such time as Homo Sapiens should decide to rejoin nature, some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along. Radical Environmentalism Hides Hatred for Humanity Quote The movement of late that concerns me the most is radical environmentalism. It is not the zealous concern for the environment that disturbs me; it is the humans vs. the planet mentality that is sometimes hidden behind that concern for the environment. Many environmental types truly believe that the planet would be a better place without humans and they want us gone. Some range from just asking that we voluntarily do not have children, some want to implement a one-child policy like China, and some hope for an outbreak of a virus like Ebola to get rid of what they see as a plague on the Earth. James Lee, killed holding the Discovery Channel hostage, was a true believer in the misanthropic radical environmentalist agenda. His demands of the Discovery channel reveal a hatred for his fellow man, namely children, disguised by a concern for the environment. From MSNBC.com: Quote {Lee} is reputed to be behind the website, SaveThePlanetProtest.com, essentially a one-page screed against Discovery, urging the company to expose civilization "for the filth it is" and to puts its focus on "how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution...." The SaveThePlanetProtest website list of "demands" is prefaced by this statement: "The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY." Among the chilling demands: "All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. "In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it." I think "parasitic human infants" says it all. Anti-Humanism Subverts Environmental Movement Quote Environmentalism has done so much good — conservation, our national parks, cleaning up the air and rivers, remediating toxic waste dumps, and the list goes on. But something has gone terribly awry. Beginning with “deep ecology” in the 1970s — which proclaims a moral equality between people and nature and advocates radical human depopulation — a nihilistic misanthropy has slowly but surely shrouded environmentalism. It has gotten so bad that conservation and preventing pollution, once the hallmarks of environmentalism, now often take a back seat to thwarting the development of resources in the service of an ideology that is becoming explicitly anti-human. Perhaps "silliness" is not the most apt descriptor. There are some facets of what passes for "environmentalism" that are downright toxic. Thanks, -Smac 4 Link to comment
Popular Post pogi Posted October 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) One excellent way we can be better stewards is to actually follow the word of wisdom - "eat meat sparingly and only in times of famine." http://science.time.com/2013/12/16/the-triple-whopper-environmental-impact-of-global-meat-production/ Edited October 26, 2018 by pogi 6 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, pogi said: One excellent way we can be better stewards is to actually follow the word of wisdom - "eat meet sparingly and only in times of famine." http://science.time.com/2013/12/16/the-triple-whopper-environmental-impact-of-global-meat-production/ Or in times of want. I greatly want bbq tomorrow so I am justified in going to an all you can eat bbq place tomorrow. 2 Link to comment
smac97 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, pogi said: One excellent way we can be better stewards is to actually follow the word of wisdom - "eat meet sparingly and only in times of famine." http://science.time.com/2013/12/16/the-triple-whopper-environmental-impact-of-global-meat-production/ I am curious as to how "lab-grown meat" and other foods would fit into the Word of Wisdom, and into generalized assessments of the world's "carrying capacity." From the link (mine): Quote Imagine biting into a juicy beef burger that was produced without killing animals. Meat grown in a laboratory from cultured cells is turning that vision into a reality. Several start-ups are developing lab-grown beef, pork, poultry and seafood—among them Mosa Meat, Memphis Meats, SuperMeat and Finless Foods. And the field is attracting millions in funding. In 2017, for instance, Memphis Meats took in $17 million from sources that included Bill Gates and agricultural company Cargill. If widely adopted, lab-grown meat, also called clean meat, could eliminate much of the cruel, unethical treatment of animals that are raised for food. It could also reduce the considerable environmental costs of meat production; resources would be needed only to generate and sustain cultured cells, not an entire organism from birth. The meat is made by first taking a muscle sample from an animal. Technicians collect stem cells from the tissue, multiply them dramatically and allow them to differentiate into primitive fibers that then bulk up to form muscle tissue. Mosa Meat says that one tissue sample from a cow can yield enough muscle tissue to make 80,000 quarter-pounders. ... Memphis Meats reported this year that a quarter-pound of its ground beef costs about $600. Given this trend, clean meat could become competitive with traditional meat within several years. Careful attention to texture and judicious supplementing with other ingredients could address taste concerns. Imagine how much land and water and feed and other resources are devoted to bring meat to our dinner tables. See here: Quote The global scope of the livestock issue is huge. A 212-page online report published by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization says 26 percent of the earth’s terrestrial surface is used for livestock grazing. One-third of the planet’s arable land is occupied by livestock feed crop cultivation. Seventy percent of Brazil’s deforested land is used as pasture, with feed crop cultivation occupying much of the remainder. And in Botswana, the livestock industry consumes 23 percent of all water used. Globally, 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions can be attributed to the livestock industry—more than is produced by transportation-related sources. And in the United States, livestock production is responsible for 55 percent of erosion, 37 percent of all applied pesticides and 50 percent of antibiotics consumed, while the animals themselves directly consume 95 percent of our oat production and 80 percent of our corn, according to the Sierra Club. "One-third of the planet's arable land is occupied by livestock feed crop cultivation." "Seventy percent of Brazil's deforested land is used as pasture, with feed crop cultivation occupying much of the remainder." Imagine what we could do with that land if it were given over to other use instead of pasturing/feed crops (or having such land revert back to a natural state). That said, the news is not all bad. See, e.g., here: Quote Earth has more trees now than 35 years ago by Rhett A. Butler on 15 August 2018 Tree cover increased globally over the past 35 years, finds a paper published in the journal Nature. The study, led by Xiao-Peng Song and Matthew Hansen of the University of Maryland, is based on analysis of satellite data from 1982 to 2016. The research found that tree cover loss on the tropics was outweighed by tree cover gain in subtropical, temperate, boreal, and polar regions. However all the tree cover data comes with an important caveat: tree cover is not necessarily forest cover. Despite ongoing deforestation, fires, drought-induced die-offs, and insect outbreaks, the world’s tree cover actually increased by 2.24 million square kilometers — an area the size of Texas and Alaska combined — over the past 35 years, finds a paper published in the journal Nature. But the research also confirms large-scale loss of the planet’s most biodiverse ecosystems, especially tropical forests. ... Overall, the study found that tree cover loss in the tropics was outweighed by tree cover gain in subtropical, temperate, boreal, and polar regions. Tree cover gain is being driven by agricultural abandonment in parts of Europe, Asia, and North America; warming temperatures that are enabling forests to move poleward; and China’s massive-tree planting program. Tree cover is also increasing globally in montane areas. The biggest gains in tree cover occurred in temperate continental forest (+726,000 square kilometers), boreal coniferous forest (+463,000 square kilometers), subtropical humid forest (+280,000 square kilometers). Russia (+790,000 square kilometers), China (+324,000 square kilometers), and the United States (+301,000 square kilometers) experienced the largest increase in tree cover among countries during the period. The whole article is worth a read. Thanks, -Smac 3 Link to comment
snowflake Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, ksfisher said: So you disagree with the idea that we should care for the earth? Not at all. I think that many of the greenies place "earth" above God....they basically worship the creation more than the creator. Link to comment
snowflake Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, RevTestament said: So loving your fellow man is a no no in your brand of Christianity? Nope, loving fellow man is one of the greatest commandments. Link to comment
ksfisher Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, snowflake said: Not at all. I think that many of the greenies place "earth" above God....they basically worship the creation more than the creator. I'm not sure how you conclude from Elder Snow's comments that the church places "earth above God." Are there any specific comments that were made that lead you to believe this? 2 Link to comment
pogi Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, smac97 said: I am curious as to how "lab-grown meat" and other foods would fit into the Word of Wisdom, and into generalized assessments of the world's "carrying capacity." From the link (mine): Imagine how much land and water and feed and other resources are devoted to bring meat to our dinner tables. See here: "One-third of the planet's arable land is occupied by livestock feed crop cultivation." "Seventy percent of Brazil's deforested land is used as pasture, with feed crop cultivation occupying much of the remainder." Imagine what we could do with that land if it were given over to other use instead of pasturing/feed crops (or having such land revert back to a natural state). That said, the news is not all bad. See, e.g., here: The whole article is worth a read. Thanks, -Smac That is really interesting. Sounds like a much more humane and environmentally friendly way to produce meat. Of course, there are other good health reasons to reduce consumption of red meat, so I don't know if that would affect how the word of wisdom is interpreted. What's another environmentally friendly and healthy alternative to beef? "Bugs are the new beef" https://foodandnutrition.org/september-october-2013/bugs-new-beef/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-insects-as-food/ https://www.iflscience.com/environment/will-we-all-be-eating-insects-50-years/ Protein/gram cricket = 20.1 cow = 20.6 Greenhouse gases released per kg of live weight (g) cricket = 2 cow = 2,850 Feed required per kg of live weight (kg) cricket = 1.7 cow = 10 Land required per g of protein (square meter) cricket = 18 cow = 254 water required per gram of protein (li) cricket = 23 cow = 112 Link to comment
snowflake Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 55 minutes ago, ksfisher said: I'm not sure how you conclude from Elder Snow's comments that the church places "earth above God." Are there any specific comments that were made that lead you to believe this? No there aren't any specific comments from Elder Snow that specifically place earth above God. It is his attitude that is so consistent with the "global warming" crowd, the attitude that humans are a blight on the world. Link to comment
ksfisher Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, snowflake said: No there aren't any specific comments from Elder Snow that specifically place earth above God. It is his attitude that is so consistent with the "global warming" crowd, the attitude that humans are a blight on the world. So nothing he said, just the fact that he believes we should take care of one of the gifts that God gave us. 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, snowflake said: No there aren't any specific comments from Elder Snow that specifically place earth above God. It is his attitude that is so consistent with the "global warming" crowd, the attitude that humans are a blight on the world. I just recently reread the Book of Moses and the Earth’s spirit seems to agree with those crazies. Enoch seemed to think that most of humanity was a blight and thought the Earth deserved a rest: Quote And it came to pass that Enoch looked upon the earth; and he heard a voice from the bowels thereof, saying: Wo, wo is me, the mother of men; I am pained, I am weary, because of the wickedness of my children. When shall I rest, and be cleansed from the filthiness which is gone forth out of me? When will my Creator sanctify me, that I may rest, and righteousness for a season abide upon my face? And when Enoch heard the earth mourn, he wept, and cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, wilt thou not have compassion upon the earth? Wilt thou not bless the children of Noah? Edited October 26, 2018 by The Nehor 1 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Thinking said: Environmental responsibility has include population control IMO. The earth has finite resources and as one population grows, another has to decrease. If we humans don't control ourselves consciously, nature will take care of it eventually. Cue the "the second coming will come first" faction. The command to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. 1 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: When anything an apostle says conflicts with my political views I toss it aside as them speaking as a man. One is fallible. The other is not. PS: I am not an idolater. Why would you think that? The golden calf in your bedroom? Link to comment
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