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rongo

Muslim crime families in Germany

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28 minutes ago, rongo said:

I also think you can see from the article why the new right-wing AfD party (Alternativ fuer Deutschland) is gaining prominence. Even fairly liberal people are becoming alarmed by massive immigration from certain countries, rising violent crime, and rising criminal elements. 

You would think that Germany of all places would have learned their lesson about fascism. I am really not in the mood to have to teach them again.

Edited by The Nehor
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5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You would think that Germany of all places would have learned their lesson about fascism. I am not really not in the mood to have to teach them again.

But that's the thing. Becoming conservative on immigration does not equal "fascism." Whenever liberals see countries like Poland or the Czech Republic (countries my parents have lived in and are living in) sharply restricting immigration from places like Syria, they cry "fascism!" There are very good reasons why many otherwise quite liberal Germans are coming to agree that maybe having millions of people from hotspot countries might not be a good idea, and none of them stem from "fascism" or "hate." For a very orderly country, rising organized crime is very troubling. 

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6 minutes ago, rongo said:

But that's the thing. Becoming conservative on immigration does not equal "fascism." Whenever liberals see countries like Poland or the Czech Republic (countries my parents have lived in and are living in) sharply restricting immigration from places like Syria, they cry "fascism!" There are very good reasons why many otherwise quite liberal Germans are coming to agree that maybe having millions of people from hotspot countries might not be a good idea, and none of them stem from "fascism" or "hate." For a very orderly country, rising organized crime is very troubling. 

I will believe this when they stop supporting protests where people are throwing out Nazi salutes. Actually no, I probably won’t believe it then either.

“I am not a Nazi. I am just a Nazi enthusiast.”

And yes, it does come from a sense of fascism, hate, and fear.

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14 minutes ago, rongo said:

But that's the thing. Becoming conservative on immigration does not equal "fascism." Whenever liberals see countries like Poland or the Czech Republic (countries my parents have lived in and are living in) sharply restricting immigration from places like Syria, they cry "fascism!" There are very good reasons why many otherwise quite liberal Germans are coming to agree that maybe having millions of people from hotspot countries might not be a good idea, and none of them stem from "fascism" or "hate." For a very orderly country, rising organized crime is very troubling.  

Citation not found.

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24 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You would think that Germany of all places would have learned their lesson about fascism. I am not really not in the mood to have to teach them again.

 

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Just now, The Nehor said:

I will believe this when they stop supporting protests where people are throwing out Nazi salutes. Actually no, I probably won’t believe it then either.

“I am not a Nazi. I am just a Nazi enthusiast.”

And yes, it does come from a sense of fascism, hate, and fear.

"Supporting protests?" You are clueless about this, Nehor. Germans carry a lot of guilt about the Holocaust and Nazism, such that normal patriotism is shocking because of fear that it could turn into . . . that. It's sad.

Where, exactly, are you getting this idea that Germans "support protests where people are throwing out Nazi salutes?" This happens in the U.S., too. Does that mean that "Americans support protests where people are throwing out Nazi salutes?" Come on! 

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2 minutes ago, Gray said:

Citation not found.

1) Germans (and Europeans) are more liberal than Americans in general. Even "conservatives," such as the CDU, pale in comparison to the Republican Party in the U.S. This can be jarring to conservative American missionaries when they learn that active LDS members in their congregations hold views they find to be shocking, and which are pretty rare in the active Church in the U.S.

2) The AfD came out of nowhere to garner 17% of the vote, and rising. Angela Merkel barely managed to retain the chancellorship because of that, and it is throwing the coalitions into chaos. Where did that come from? Any way you slice it, it took liberal people turning more conservative to comprise that 17%. 

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5 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

 

Yeah, but I only said they were fascists. Their stated politics are more Mussolini or Franco level fascism. That does not make it okay or a valid political choice for anyone who is not an immoral monster.

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4 minutes ago, rongo said:

"Supporting protests?" You are clueless about this, Nehor. Germans carry a lot of guilt about the Holocaust and Nazism, such that normal patriotism is shocking because of fear that it could turn into . . . that. It's sad.

Where, exactly, are you getting this idea that Germans "support protests where people are throwing out Nazi salutes?" This happens in the U.S., too. Does that mean that "Americans support protests where people are throwing out Nazi salutes?" Come on! 

Nazi salutes are not patriotic. The AFD was rebuked in the legislature for backing protests filled with people making Nazi salutes. The AFD wishes they did not throw out said salutes as it is bad PR but if your policies attract all the Nazis.......what does that say about you?

I would not say that Americans support protests where people are throwing out Nazi salutes. I would say that Trump supporters seem to support protests with Nazi salutes. Again they wish they didn’t have the salutes because of the bad PR but it is fun watching them squirm to try to avoid actually condemning Nazis and all the white supremacists support Trump. Again, if all the Nazis support you.....what does that say about you?

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3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, but I only said they were fascists. Their stated politics are more Mussolini or Franco level fascism. That does not make it okay or a valid political choice for anyone who is not an immoral monster.

I'm going to CFR you on that. What, in AfD's "stated politics are more Mussolini or Franco level fascism?" And what "Mussolini or Franco level fascism" are you comparing to said "stated politics" to arrive at that? 

Thanks!

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4 minutes ago, rongo said:

1) Germans (and Europeans) are more liberal than Americans in general. Even "conservatives," such as the CDU, pale in comparison to the Republican Party in the U.S. This can be jarring to conservative American missionaries when they learn that active LDS members in their congregations hold views they find to be shocking, and which are pretty rare in the active Church in the U.S.

2) The AfD came out of nowhere to garner 17% of the vote, and rising. Angela Merkel barely managed to retain the chancellorship because of that, and it is throwing the coalitions into chaos. Where did that come from? Any way you slice it, it took liberal people turning more conservative to comprise that 17%. 

Most of the AFDs membership is coming from the more right-leaning German parties. The idea that the Greens and the like are all turning into Nazis is ridiculous and an attempt to normalize, you know, fascism.

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1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

The AFD was rebuked in the legislature for backing protests filled with people making Nazi salutes.

CFR?

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Just now, The Nehor said:

Most of the AFDs membership is coming from the more right-leaning German parties. The idea that the Greens and the like are all turning into Nazis is ridiculous and an attempt to normalize, you know, fascism.

I never said Greens. That would be ridiculous. I'm saying that people from the mainstream CDU and SPD are where the AfD bloc had to have come from. By definition, liberal by American standards. Greens, Edleweiss Pirates, etc. are altogether something else. I would never claim that they came from them. 

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1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Most of the AFDs membership is coming from the more right-leaning German parties. The idea that the Greens and the like are all turning into Nazis is ridiculous and an attempt to normalize, you know, fascism.

But you’re presuming they are Nazis and fascist. I haven’t seen the evidence yet. They could be, I don’t know but I need to see more

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1 minute ago, rongo said:

I'm going to CFR you on that. What, in AfD's "stated politics are more Mussolini or Franco level fascism?" And what "Mussolini or Franco level fascism" are you comparing to said "stated politics" to arrive at that? 

Thanks!

Well, let us look at their policy goals:

The German people are strong but our unity is being undermined by foreign elements, mostly focusing on Arabs. We must purge our government of its national shame (code for we should not worry so much about Nazi past). We need a sense of nationalistic pride in our uniqueness and protect that cultural homogeneity.

That is fascism. Fascism does not have to be militarily expansionistic or have death camps to be fascism. Spain and Portugal were led by fascist regimes that did not have either.

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7 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

But you’re presuming they are Nazis and fascist. I haven’t seen the evidence yet. They could be, I don’t know but I need to see more

If only there was some kind of readily available information source in which one could research a topic with incredible speed and access that information in the comfort of your own home at your own convenience with an easily affordable device.

Alas.........

Until then: http://bfy.tw/KQUH

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23 minutes ago, rongo said:

1) Germans (and Europeans) are more liberal than Americans in general. Even "conservatives," such as the CDU, pale in comparison to the Republican Party in the U.S. This can be jarring to conservative American missionaries when they learn that active LDS members in their congregations hold views they find to be shocking, and which are pretty rare in the active Church in the U.S.

2) The AfD came out of nowhere to garner 17% of the vote, and rising. Angela Merkel barely managed to retain the chancellorship because of that, and it is throwing the coalitions into chaos. Where did that come from? Any way you slice it, it took liberal people turning more conservative to comprise that 17%

Citation still not found.

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9 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That's not a CFR answer. Your Nehor flippancy isn't going to bail you out of this one. 

Would you please post a link to the source from this google search that you think supports your claim that the AfD itself encouraged Nazi salutes at rallies? All these results show is that some people did them at rallies when the AfD won seats. But that happens here in the U.S., too. You are claiming official, systemic support from the party, and you are not going to be able to show that (and you know that). All you can say is, "Well, look who the Neo's are supporting?" 

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2 minutes ago, Gray said:

Citation still not found.

Okay. Where are you claiming that the 17% of the electorate came from? 

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14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Well, let us look at their policy goals:

The German people are strong but our unity is being undermined by foreign elements, mostly focusing on Arabs. We must purge our government of its national shame (code for we should not worry so much about Nazi past). We need a sense of nationalistic pride in our uniqueness and protect that cultural homogeneity.

That is fascism. Fascism does not have to be militarily expansionistic or have death camps to be fascism. Spain and Portugal were led by fascist regimes that did not have either.

CFR for where you are paraphrasing this from. 

And, CFR that "this is fascism." Please provide a definition for fascism, and show how it compares to your paraphrased definition. I'll help you. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

You'll need to demonstrate that the AfD is pushing for "dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy," according to this source. 

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15 minutes ago, rongo said:

That's not a CFR answer. Your Nehor flippancy isn't going to bail you out of this one. 

Would you please post a link to the source from this google search that you think supports your claim that the AfD itself encouraged Nazi salutes at rallies? All these results show is that some people did them at rallies when the AfD won seats. But that happens here in the U.S., too. You are claiming official, systemic support from the party, and you are not going to be able to show that (and you know that). All you can say is, "Well, look who the Neo's are supporting?" 

“Your CFR is not GOOD enough. I actually have to click things!!!!! Prove it to me now. You made the claim and you have to walk me through it like a pre-schooler to prove it!”

14 minutes ago, rongo said:

Okay. Where are you claiming that the 17% of the electorate came from? 

“I made an unsubstantiated claim. I refuse to prove it! You have to prove a claim that shows otherwise. I have no responsibility to prove my original assertion!”

hypocrisy.jpg?w=635&h=300&crop=1

So I am done discussing in good faith with you on this topic. Going to stick to mockery from here on out.

Edited by The Nehor
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The US and Europe have long term immigration problems that are going to cause significant issues in the future.  The difference I see in is that in the US, the immigrants mainly will adopt US values and seek to become like Americans.  They just want work and a better life. In Europe, some of that may be true but many if the migrants do not want to work and do not want to be European.  They want to bring what they came from with them.  European governments are making matters worse because they suppress stories of rape and other violence by migrants and they dish out pathetic punishments when people are caught.  For example  an African migrant who raped a woman in 2014 was convicted of the charge and what justice did he get in Europe?  Try two year and six months prison for rape and 11,000 euros of compensation to the girl.  https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/10/sickening-african-migrant-who-raped-swedish-girl-and-ruined-her-life-is-allowed-to-stay-in-sweden/   This is not isolated.  People are not going to put up with this nonsense and migrants are not going to take things seriously with such pathetic sentences.  Of course the majority of migrants to Europe are not doing this but large numbers are not becoming European and this will cause sharp division on the future.  A house divided can not stand.  Divisions in America and Europe are increasing.  Multiculturalism leads to division.  If the last days are marked with war and conflict, we can see the clear signs worldwide of the seeds being sown.

 

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42 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

The US and Europe have long term immigration problems that are going to cause significant issues in the future.  The difference I see in is that in the US, the immigrants mainly will adopt US values and seek to become like Americans.  They just want work and a better life. In Europe, some of that may be true but many if the migrants do not want to work and do not want to be European.  They want to bring what they came from with them.  European governments are making matters worse because they suppress stories of rape and other violence by migrants and they dish out pathetic punishments when people are caught.  For example  an African migrant who raped a woman in 2014 was convicted of the charge and what justice did he get in Europe?  Try two year and six months prison for rape and 11,000 euros of compensation to the girl.  https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/10/sickening-african-migrant-who-raped-swedish-girl-and-ruined-her-life-is-allowed-to-stay-in-sweden/   This is not isolated.  People are not going to put up with this nonsense and migrants are not going to take things seriously with such pathetic sentences.  Of course the majority of migrants to Europe are not doing this but large numbers are not becoming European and this will cause sharp division on the future.  A house divided can not stand.  Divisions in America and Europe are increasing.  Multiculturalism leads to division.  If the last days are marked with war and conflict, we can see the clear signs worldwide of the seeds being sown.

 

But one of the basic premises of the United States was to put that tribalism behind us and accept those who are different. We had a rough start focused mostly on just white Europeans can come in and bring their differences. We had backlashes against it as early as the Alien and Sedition Acts. We slowly chipped them away. We freed the slaves, we invited the Chinese in to build our railroads and started letting people in from Asia generally. We codified equality into law So it was expressed instead of just being a vague principle. It is a bold experiment. It is a dangerous and scary experiment but it is worth it. Reactionaries paranoid about immigration are basically saying that the experiment is a failure and will not work. That we need to go back to the old tribalistic ways or we are doomed.

There is a sad irony that those who want to wrap themselves in the American flag and tout American exceptionalism want to excise the source of that exceptionalism as a tumor.

 

Edited by The Nehor
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