ttribe Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, kllindley said: I read this enlightening article. What strikes me is that it consistently defines the term scare quotes in relation to the author's intent and meaning. It provides no means to distinguish whether their usage is meant as scare quotes or as appropriate punctuation denoting a specific word. From this I gather that you are confident enough in knowing the intent and meaning behind RevTestament's usage to insist that they are scare quotes rather than intentional punctuation. I'm curious then, which of the purposes of scare quotes was he using? a) using a word in a non-standard sense b) using it in an ironic manner c) using it in another special sense d) using someone else's term e) implying skepticism f) implying disagreement g) believing the word is misused h) indicating that the writer intends a meaning that is opposite the word Please enlighten those of us who can't read minds. I cannot read minds which is why I asked the question. Thank you for your snark. Link to comment
kllindley Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, ttribe said: I cannot read minds which is why I asked the question. Thank you for your snark. Wouldn't it make sense then to ask something like: Why did you put abuse in quotation marks? Are you saying these things aren't actually abuse? Instead of labeling them as scare quotes which assumes knowledge of intent? Then when he articulated why he used quotations marks and denied that they were intended as scare quotes, why did you post the link? Link to comment
ttribe Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, kllindley said: Wouldn't it make sense then to ask something like: Why did you put abuse in quotation marks? Are you saying these things aren't actually abuse? Instead of labeling them as scare quotes which assumes knowledge of intent? Then when he articulated why he used quotations marks and denied that they were intended as scare quotes, why did you post the link? Oh, good grief. I posted the link because he asked what they were. I called them scare quotes because, in my experience, that is the common assumption throughout the Internet when quote marks are used that way; your mileage may vary. Edited October 16, 2018 by ttribe Link to comment
strappinglad Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I looked , but was unable to find an emoji that demonstrated a " knee jerk reaction" . An article from 5 years ago with a title straight out of the " clickbait " manual, intended to make one gasp. Notice my use of " scare quotes " . Nuance was provided by some, shame was heaped upon the Church by others etc. Utah is 100% " Mormon " right ? ( there I go again ) , I mean to say, there are all kinds of obfuscation, and headlines about statistics in studies are near the top of the list. For your consideration. https://ed.ted.com/lessons/how-statistics-can-be-misleading-mark-liddell 2 Link to comment
Gray Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Calm said: If it has child and sex and abuse or something similar in the url it may 403 it. I'm sure that was it, then Edited October 16, 2018 by Gray Link to comment
webbles Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, hope_for_things said: I'm making a logical assumption that if Utah has some unique differences in how it tracks these statistics that other states surely also have unique differences. This pdf https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/define.pdf has a summary of all the different states and their laws around child abuse. You can find more pdfs related to reporting of child abuse at https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/laws-policies/can/reporting/. There are definitely differences between the states but I'm not sure Utah is any more unique then the others. 1 Link to comment
Popular Post JarMan Posted October 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 hours ago, 2BizE said: Utah has the highest rate of sexual abuse of children of all states in the United States. How are you going to help fix this problem? https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-has-high-rates-of-child-abuse-sex-abuse-of-children The latest (2016) numbers show Utah is third highest in the country. The following table shows child sexual abuse victims per 1,000 children. The data comes from this report, Tables 3-3 and 3-8. Quote Vermont 3.2 Arkansas 2.8 Utah 1.8 Tennessee 1.8 Ohio 1.7 Indiana 1.6 Illinois 1.5 Alabama 1.4 Mississippi 1.4 Maryland 1.3 Oregon 1.2 Maine 1.1 Minnesota 1.0 Alaska 1.0 Missouri 1.0 Kansas 0.9 Colorado 0.8 Iowa 0.8 Texas 0.8 Kentucky 0.8 Wisconsin 0.8 Pennsylvania 0.8 South Carolina 0.7 Delaware 0.7 West Virginia 0.7 Oklahoma 0.7 Florida 0.6 Rhode Island 0.6 DC 0.6 North Carolina 0.6 Wyoming 0.6 Massachusetts 0.6 Louisiana 0.5 Michigan 0.5 New York 0.5 Connecticut 0.5 Montana 0.4 New Jersey 0.4 California 0.4 New Mexico 0.4 Nevada 0.4 Nebraska 0.4 Virginia 0.4 Georgia 0.3 New Hampshire 0.3 North Dakota 0.3 Washington 0.3 South Dakota 0.3 Hawaii 0.2 Arizona 0.2 Idaho 0.2 National 0.8 It's interesting that Idaho is the nation's lowest. If there was a causal relationship between Mormonism and child sexual abuse you would expect to see Idaho as being one of the top states. 5 Link to comment
JarMan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 The same report I linked to above shows a breakdown of perpetrators by age (Table 5-2). This table represents all child abuse, not just sexual abuse. What's notable about Utah's statistics is that they seem to have the highest percentage of perpetrators in the 12-17 age range by far. I haven't done a complete analysis as this would require me to enter a bunch of numbers into a spreadsheet, but just for comparative purposes Utah has 605 out of 7,284 total perpetrators in the 12-17 age range while New York has 241 out of 51,199 and Arizona has 67 out of 11,107. This supports what some have been saying regarding the way Utah reports incidents of abuse when the perpetrators are minors. We can approximate the effect on Utah's overall abuse rate of reporting 12-17 year old perpetrators. If we assume that Utah is the only state that includes 12-17 year-olds, then we can estimate that there were 478 Utah perpetrators of child sexual abuse aged 12-17. For the 1,671 child victims of abuse we can estimate there were 1,266 perpetrators. This means that about 38% of the sexual abuse cases were perpetrated by 12-17 year olds. So if we reduce the 1.8 from my previous post by 38% we end up with 1.1 victims per thousand. This puts Utah at about 12th in the country. Still too high. Anything is too high. But this helps us get a better idea where Utah lands. Of course there could be dozens of other factors that either under- or over-estimate the true values but we can only work with the data we've got. Link to comment
LoudmouthMormon Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 18 hours ago, 2BizE said: I also ensure me or my wife are present with our children for all interviews with the bishop or counselors. Well, ok. Although do you also keep your children indoors at all times? Because they have a far greater chance of being hit by lightning than being abused by a bishop or counselor. And don't even get me started on letting them be in a moving vehicle...` 1 Link to comment
ALarson Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 18 hours ago, 2BizE said: I also ensure me or my wife are present with our children for all interviews with the bishop or counselors. These are some things I am doing. Good for you. We are having more parents come in and request to be present in all of their children's (youth's) interviews. I think more are learning this option is available to them and feel it's right for them to do. My Bishop fully supports this. Link to comment
webbles Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 In the report from JarMan, it also breaks down by age of the victim in table 3-5 (though, this is for all victims, not just s-x abuse victims). If you rank the states, then Utah is: <1 years old: 31st 1 year old: 27th 2 year old: 28th 3 year old: 23rd 4 year old: 24th 5 year old: 20th 6 year old: 26th 7 year old: 19th 8 year old: 22nd 9 year old: 20th 10 year old: 19th 11 year old: 20th 12 year old: 18th 13 year old: 15th 14 year old: 11th 15 year old: 10th 16 year old: 5th 17 year old: 3rd Utah sits around the middle of the pack for most ages and only for the teenage years does it start to climb. This is probably when s-xual abuse starts being seen. Interestingly enough, only Utah and District of Columbia have this type of large of a climb where they are low in the earlier ages and then go up in the later ages. A few states have a high rank in the lower ages and then get a lower rank as the age progresses but most states appear to stay relatively stable. Massachusetts is either ranked 1 or 2 for all age groups. Kentucky is ranked 2, 3, or 4 for all age groups. Indiana is ranked 3, 4, 5, or 6 for all age groups. I would have expected more states to show a change once teenager years start. If you look at Vermont (which has the highest per capita child s-xual assault per this report), its highest rank is only 13 overall and that is for 14 year olds. The rest of the time, it is ranked in the 18 or lower (mostly in the upper 20s or 30s). 2 Link to comment
Traela Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 4 hours ago, ALarson said: Good for you. We are having more parents come in and request to be present in all of their children's (youth's) interviews. I think more are learning this option is available to them and feel it's right for them to do. My Bishop fully supports this. And once again it raises the question, what if it’s the parents who are the abusers? 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 For all worried parents it is important to remember that statistically the most likely person to molest your children is you. 3 Link to comment
ksfisher Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Traela said: And once again it raises the question, what if it’s the parents who are the abusers? I don't think that is really an issue. More of a problem to me is in a worthiness interview that a youth may be inclined to say what they think their parents want to hear rather that what they should say. 1 Link to comment
LoudmouthMormon Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: For all worried parents it is important to remember that statistically the most likely person to molest your children is you. Oh wow. That's true, isn't it. Never heard it put that way before - it makes sense, brings perspective, and also brings a little kick. Good factoid. Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) On 10/16/2018 at 10:47 AM, ttribe said: Why the scare quotes? Are you saying these things aren't actually abuse? Rev might be suggesting that mixed in with these stats is everything from rape to simply playing "doctor." I am reminded of first graders who have touched or kissed a fellow student being charged with sexual assault and getting arrested or suspended for it. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/sexual-harassment-6-year-old-dropped_n_4435382.html . Sometimes we lack any sense of proportion. Quote Indeed, calling a matter “sexual” when a first-grader is involved seems at odds with California statutes that indicate that such intent can only be applied to children who are in fourth grade or older. Stuart Lustig, a board-certified child psychiatrist at the University of California, San Francisco, said that in general it is quite common, normal even, for young children to touch each other’s genital areas. “It’s curiosity,” he said. “It’s not sexual in the adult sense.” https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/27/education/boy-6-suspended-in-sexual-assault-case-at-elementary-school.html . Edited October 19, 2018 by Robert F. Smith Link to comment
Gray Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 9:03 AM, LoudmouthMormon said: Well, ok. Although do you also keep your children indoors at all times? Because they have a far greater chance of being hit by lightning than being abused by a bishop or counselor. And don't even get me started on letting them be in a moving vehicle...` 2 deep leadership is for pansies. Seat belts are for the weak! Link to comment
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