mfbukowski Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) Duplicate. Edited October 11, 2018 by mfbukowski Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Spammer said: I agree. There’s no other way to see it. We can persuade others to give our way a try, tell them it’s the best way and here’s why. They might even taste and find it sweet, too. That doesn’t mean it really is the best, though. Whether our subjective best aligns with the objective best can never be known, without access to the latter, which is something we can never have, if we can know nothing outside of our perceptions. I accept all of this, but I don’t like it. Have you read Augustine’s Confessions or Ambrose’s Proslogion? They also struggled with this. You get used to it- the idea that there IS an "objective" is unknowable and so why worry about it? Before the Greeks there WAS no such notion- what you see IS reality - what you see is what you get! Human experience AS EXPERIENCED WAS "reality". There should be NO distinction between appearance and "reality". Yes there are optical illusions- but so what? How do we discover that they ARE illusions- by further human experience investigating the first perception. You go toward the mirage to find water and then have the human experience of finding no water! It is one human experience correcting the other human experience! You thought the first experience would yield "water" and it did not. It was a mistake. Before the Greeks there was no distinction between "human perception" and "reality" - AS IT SHOULD HAVE STAYED! Now experience vs linguistic alleged "representation" is another issue in itself. The word "blue"- those four letters cannot possibly convey the EXPERIENCE of the "color" of the sky on a sunny day. Four letters for the richness of that experience?? But even the idea of "best" is a human invention. Especially if God himself is a human! There is no way around humans being limited by..... human limitations, by definition! It is as true as the humanly defined idea that A=A. It is the way we think and we cannot think outside of the way we think.! You get used to it. After 50 years in this Paradigm I now feel a sense of incredible freedom. Perhaps it is metaphor but I find it to be my job to organize matter unorganized to create my world. I can at least imagine that that is great training for exaltation/theosis, not that I will qualify for it. Qualifying is the big problem. But again the Paradigm urges one forward to be one best human that one can become on their own. And of course we are saved by grace after all we can do. This is the way human intelligence works, and He who is most intelligent has created us all. I believed this before I joined the church and it was unspeakable joy to find that others believed it or even something close to it. Everyday of my life I marvel at the simplicity of it all. We all have this spark of divinity , are creators, and we just want to grow up and be like Mom and Dad. We live at a human created world of houses and airplanes and computers, air conditioning and supermarkets, why not postulate another Superhuman who is more intelligent than the entire race combined is, or could be, who gave us all the rest - a universe in which we could dwell, and create our bee hives in our bee hive world, with our bee intelligence until we were ready to grow to the next step to be like Dad! It is a fabulous idea, a fabulous ideal, and a fabulous paradigm and goal for us all to accept as a "hope for things unseen". Link to comment
MickeytheMuse Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 On 10/9/2018 at 10:00 PM, MiserereNobis said: There are some discussions and threads right now about the name change away from Mormon. I'd like to broaden that out and talk about the over-arching idea of this issue of whether or when an LDS prophet speaks fallibly, because I see that as the heart of those posts. I think the crux of the issue could be summed up with this: has a prophet ever spoken at general conference and been wrong? If the answer is never, then you almost assuredly believe in the infallibility of prophets, despite what you say to the contrary. If you believe in the fallibility of prophets, then show an example of it. If the answer is yes, then please give an example where the prophet has been contradicted by other prophets. In other words, show where the institutional church has declared that prophet wrong, not when your own ideas have. In Catholicism, we have a history of popes being not so good (i.e. terrible) people, and have rejected declarations of popes because popes are not infallible. I just say this so that this thread isn't distracted by discussing bad popes instead of discussing fallible vs. infallible LDS prophets. What man isn't infallible~? Link to comment
MiserereNobis Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, MickeytheMuse said: What man isn't infallible~? What do you mean? Your question suggests that all humans are infallible. Infallible means perfect, without mistake. Did you mistake infallible for fallible? Link to comment
MickeytheMuse Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly , I was trying to be sarcastic and it backfired on me...lol...my bad, thanks~! I taught pre-school for 20 years....never met a kid I didn't like....lots of parents didn't make the list though.....just want to add that the only truly infallible person is a Toddler with a hammer.........Love & Peace~!................mTm Link to comment
MickeytheMuse Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, MickeytheMuse said: Sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly , I was trying to be sarcastic and it backfired on me...lol...my bad, thanks~! I taught pre-school for 20 years....never met a kid I didn't like....lots of parents didn't make the list though.....just want to add that the only truly infallible person is a Toddler with a hammer.........Love & Peace~!.......(did I nail down the sarcasm this time?~lol).........mTm Link to comment
Okrahomer Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, MickeytheMuse said: Sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly , I was trying to be sarcastic and it backfired on me...lol...my bad, thanks~! I taught pre-school for 20 years....never met a kid I didn't like....lots of parents didn't make the list though.....just want to add that the only truly infallible person is a Toddler with a hammer.........Love & Peace~!................mTm Ha! I think the most talented energetic and engaged teachers I've known have specialized in pre-school and early childhood education. They seem to be very pure in their motivation. I admire you! Link to comment
Recommended Posts