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Are natural disasters on the rise, and a sign of the time?


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3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

We don't need to make this as "science vs anti-science" (especially since I am far and away not anti-science), but if you're going to make a remark like it's "You vs Science", and then when I ask "in what way" you give me "Every way" --- you're just being mean.  

All I said was (paraphrasing myself) "I don't think we're going to get weather control very soon, and I doubt that we're going to get a significant handle on global warming."  Those are opinions based on what I have seen, not some anti-science screed.  I'd like to know how you feel that that is anti-science.  If I said I don't think we're going to get flying cars very soon, would you characterize that as anti-technology?

Or did you read what I wrote not very carefully and misunderstand what I was saying?

Let's just say there's a difference between controlling the weather like in a cartoon and influencing the direction of climate change.

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9 minutes ago, Gray said:

Let's just say there's a difference between controlling the weather like in a cartoon and influencing the direction of climate change.

Sounds reasonable to me!

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15 minutes ago, Gray said:

Let's just say there's a difference between controlling the weather like in a cartoon and influencing the direction of climate change.

I went hunting for some of these films that got shown to us in our elementary school.  I found a few!  Looks like there were some semi-famous or futurely-famous actors in them. They had Dr. Frank Baxter in them -- I was surprised to discover today that he was only playing a scientist.  He was whom I thought of when I thought of scientist!  Had a doctorate in English, but not science.  Oh well.

  • Hemo -- the Magnificent!  -  about blood
  • Our Mr. Sun  -  about the Sun (duh) - this one has Mr. Douglas from "Green Acres" in it!  Eddie Albert!
  • The Unchained Goddess  -  About weather, and this is the one I was thinking of that had the weather control ideas in it. It actually contains a rather early look at concerns for global warming!

Thanks for making me think of these -- re-watching them is a lot of fun!  There are some others besides, but these were the ones I remember watching is science class in 7th grade.  

 

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13 hours ago, Gray said:

Let's just say there's a difference between controlling the weather like in a cartoon and influencing the direction of climate change.

Thinking about this further in the light of the new day, I said this sounds reasonable, but it still doesn't justify your remark that it's "you vs science".  Would you care to retract your accusation that I'm anti-science?

Have you ever heard of the concept of the Dyson Sphere?  Would I be unscientific if I expressed doubt that this was achievable in the near future?  For various reasons, I seriously doubt that influencing the direction of climate change is achievable in the near future.  Not that it couldn't be done, given a sufficiently powerful and all-encompassing world dictatorship -- errrr, government.

On the other hand, it occurs to me that we may very well get a good handle on this during the Millennium. 

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On 10/9/2018 at 12:39 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

It seems more and more that natural disasters are on the rise, or maybe it is the 24 news cycle that just may iseem so.

Some things are consequences of climate change which probably is a sign of the times. Hurricanes, as other noted, have been increasing in intensity and number. We should also add in that populations have increased thereby meaning that even if the same number of storms as 60 years ago happened, they'd have far more consequences. Even factoring in far better technology for buildings. The other factor as you note is more capable media. We can get immediate news on all tragedies and see them in a fashion that one simply couldn't in the era before TV. And the internet and smart phones have magnified that a lot.

Still, things are in some ways getting worse. I mentioned climate change but there's also overfishing, extinctions due to destruction of habitat, and so forth. However at the same time most things are getting far better. There's less violence. Wealth is becoming distributed around the world so most of the world is emerging from millennia of poverty. In rich western countries the environment is being taken care of. (There's far more forests now than a century ago in the US for instance) 

So it's a mixed bag to be sure.

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12 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Thinking about this further in the light of the new day, I said this sounds reasonable, but it still doesn't justify your remark that it's "you vs science".  Would you care to retract your accusation that I'm anti-science?

Have you ever heard of the concept of the Dyson Sphere?  Would I be unscientific if I expressed doubt that this was achievable in the near future?  For various reasons, I seriously doubt that influencing the direction of climate change is achievable in the near future.  Not that it couldn't be done, given a sufficiently powerful and all-encompassing world dictatorship -- errrr, government.

On the other hand, it occurs to me that we may very well get a good handle on this during the Millennium.  

My snarky little quip was in response to this:

"I'm also pretty sure we're not going to be able to do nothing to influence global warming, either."

I apologize for the snark. I read this too quickly and didn't catch your double negative.

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On 10/10/2018 at 8:48 AM, snowflake said:

I do think that the never ending news cycle makes it seem like there is a lot of hurricanes compared to earlier decades, but i don't think the evidence really supports it. The last two hurricanes that hit the U.S. were also termed "the worst hurricanes in decades".....just like this one. They are natural phenomenon that have been hitting the U.S. since the beginning. Placing blame for a hurricane on a slight increase in CO2 is purely political.  

Only in the United States is climate change still considered controversial. I wish we would join the rest of the developed world in accepting the scientific consensus and move on to discussing what, if anything, we should do to mitigate it and what we should do to prepare for the changes it will bring.

The new face of American Exceptionialism:

no-listening.jpg?w=377&h=283

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He is just quoting news sources from the past. NYT is a kook source now... OK

There is a pattern. A cycle of Climate change. It gets warmer, it gets cooler, the ice melts, the ice freezes, the media takes up the drum beats of the science of the day. People panic, news outlets sell more, the more things change the more they stay the same.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for humans cleaning up after themselves. Let's start with something like plastic pollution. We have the technology but do we have the will. Sorry, it's not heart wrenching like starving Polar bears. ( by the way, there are way more polar bears now than 100 years ago. ) Dadgum melting Arctic.

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44 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

He is just quoting news sources from the past. NYT is a kook source now... OK

There is a pattern. A cycle of Climate change. It gets warmer, it gets cooler, the ice melts, the ice freezes, the media takes up the drum beats of the science of the day. People panic, news outlets sell more, the more things change the more they stay the same.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for humans cleaning up after themselves. Let's start with something like plastic pollution. We have the technology but do we have the will. Sorry, it's not heart wrenching like starving Polar bears. ( by the way, there are way more polar bears now than 100 years ago. ) Dadgum melting Arctic.

Not the polar bear thing again......UGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

That is a myth. There were huge problems with the guesswork of the population of polar bears up until a few decades ago. People take these mostly uneducated guesses as facts, compare them to current data (which is better guesswork), and then snugly use them to argue that populations are increasing. These people need to be punched in the face repeatedly.

They are being deceptive. They are lying. Do not trust these people about this or anything else they say. Even/Especially if they tell you what you want to hear.

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17 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

have decided that we as a species do not deserve the almost limitless success to information we receive on the Internet.

Does everyone just like being wrong?

Here is an example of just how informative the internet is on a topic. You will note that China is: building more coal plants, or shutting down coal plants, or increasing it use of coal, or decreasing its use of coal, or building coal plants in many countries outside of China , or...or...or... The old saying of " there are lies, damn lies , and statistics " can add.. and the internet. Pick your poison, your mileage may vary, follow the money... and other clichés.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=coal+plants+in+china&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IESR3A&pc=EUPP

Edited by strappinglad
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32 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Here is an example of just how informative the internet is on a topic. You will note that China is: building more coal plants, or shutting down coal plants, or increasing it use of coal, or decreasing its use of coal, or building coal plants in many countries outside of China , or...or...or... The old saying of " there are lies, damn lies , and statistics " can add.. and the internet. Pick your poison, your mileage may vary, follow the money... and other clichés.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=coal+plants+in+china&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IESR3A&pc=EUPP

Counterpoint: You used Bing.

There are still reputable sources of information out there. They are usually not that entertaining and include all kinds of caveats but they are there. The problem is the deluge of bad information leads to a kind of cynicism.

I think we should emulate the Book of Mormon practice of punishing liars. That would probably help.

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On 10/10/2018 at 6:48 AM, snowflake said:

I do think that the never ending news cycle makes it seem like there is a lot of hurricanes compared to earlier decades, but i don't think the evidence really supports it. The last two hurricanes that hit the U.S. were also termed "the worst hurricanes in decades".....just like this one. They are natural phenomenon that have been hitting the U.S. since the beginning. Placing blame for a hurricane on a slight increase in CO2 is purely political.  

You just don't get it, do you?  Climate change/global warming/whatever is the new political religion, and with this kind of attitude you stand in danger of being laughed at.

The planet's been undergoing climate change for the past 12 - 15,000 years without our help, but the fact that a good proportion of people in the US live in places where the ice was a mile deep that long ago just doesn't make a dent.

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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Counterpoint: You used Bing.

There are still reputable sources of information out there. They are usually not that entertaining and include all kinds of caveats but they are there. The problem is the deluge of bad information leads to a kind of cynicism.

I think we should emulate the Book of Mormon practice of punishing liars. That would probably help.

Bing as opposed to Google?  Something wrong with that?  Microsoft and Google are not in political opposition to each other.  Microsoft is not Fox News to Googles CNN.  Not understanding your "counterpoint."

I applied the same search on Google that he used on Bing.  Got pretty much the same results.  China is expanding its use of coal.  What's your problem?

 

 

Edited by Stargazer
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34 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Bing as opposed to Google?  Something wrong with that?  Microsoft and Google are not in political opposition to each other.  Microsoft is not Fox News to Googles CNN.  Not understanding your "counterpoint."

I applied the same search on Google that he used on Bing.  Got pretty much the same results.  China is expanding its use of coal.  What's your problem?

 

 

That was a joke.

Confusion about what an authoritarian state is doing about energy production is naturally confusing.

Edited by The Nehor
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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That was a joke.

Confusion about what an authoritarian state is doing about energy production is naturally confusing.

Ok, then.  Ha Ha.  :D 

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19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Only in the United States is climate change still considered controversial. I wish we would join the rest of the developed world in accepting the scientific consensus and move on to discussing what, if anything, we should do to mitigate it and what we should do to prepare for the changes it will bring.

The new face of American Exceptionialism:

no-listening.jpg?w=377&h=283

Even if we wanted to change the climate there is nothing we could do! What...if anything do you suggest we do that would alter the course of the climate in 30-50 years? In the U.S. we have already significantly reduced our carbon output over the last several years. 

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12 hours ago, Stargazer said:

You just don't get it, do you?  Climate change/global warming/whatever is the new political religion, and with this kind of attitude you stand in danger of being laughed at.

The planet's been undergoing climate change for the past 12 - 15,000 years without our help, but the fact that a good proportion of people in the US live in places where the ice was a mile deep that long ago just doesn't make a dent.

Yeah...but now the change of climate change has increased!!!!!! Panic!!!!!! Don't you get it!!!!! Denier!!!!!  We've only got 10 more years to do something!!!!! 

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1 hour ago, snowflake said:

Even if we wanted to change the climate there is nothing we could do! What...if anything do you suggest we do that would alter the course of the climate in 30-50 years? In the U.S. we have already significantly reduced our carbon output over the last several years. 

No, the extent of the change can still be mitigated. We probably won’t do anything though.

We could also start looking into good ways to adapt to the change but since we are still in denial mode we probably will not do that either.

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

Yeah...but now the change of climate change has increased!!!!!! Panic!!!!!! Don't you get it!!!!! Denier!!!!!  We've only got 10 more years to do something!!!!! 

Sometimes a bit of panic is healthy if it motivates change.

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1 hour ago, snowflake said:

Yeah...but now the change of climate change has increased!!!!!! Panic!!!!!! Don't you get it!!!!! Denier!!!!!  We've only got 10 more years to do something!!!!! 

Yes, Floridian, better Learn how to tread water!

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