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JLHPROF

It's Official- 2 Hour Block

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1 hour ago, Garden Girl said:

I'm trying to be positive about this change because I do believe our leaders are led by inspiration and revelation... however, I'm someone with physical challenges that can find it difficult to get myself up and ready, and drive to the Church for the 3-hr meeting(s).  Now the emphasis is focused more on the home for learning/teaching... and with the reduced time allotted for church, it hardly seems worth the effort... the new changes emphasize teaching children/families... families, children, families, children, families... in the home.  I have no family... I'm totally alone... the change to "ministering" has curtailed my HTs regularly bringing the priesthood into my home, instead replacing it with an occasional phone call and "call us if you need us"... and brought my already sporadic VT visits to a complete halt with only an occasional phone call to "check on me."  As an elderly single sister I used to feel left out... now I also feel my aloneness even more acutely... 

It is through my own efforts to reach out that I have any real amount of closeness to the Church remaining... 

GG 

I understand completely and feel much the same.  I wish we lived near to each other!

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24 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Oh all chapels definitely need keys to unlock the doors.  I was speaking to your question on who would be around to lock up.  I don't know of any churches that need keys to lock the doors, only unlock them from the outside.  But the chapel style out of the US could very well be different than what i'm familiar with.

The keys are needed to lock up as well as unlock. 

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Honestly, this just makes me like Stake Conference a little less.

 

I think we need to stop looking at this from a "3 hour" perspective.  There is nothing sacred or special about the 3-hour block.  There is nothing sacred or special about going to Church for 3 hours.  In a generation, it will only be a footnote that we used to go to Church for 3 hours (much as the old pre-block schedule is unknown and mystifying to anyone under the age of 40).  There will be a period of adjustment that I suspect will be surprisingly short, and I expect rumors of 1-hour block to start circulating as soon as the April Conference.

I'll also note that I only care how one person feels about this change: President Oaks.

Edited by cinepro

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6 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Honestly, this just makes me like Stake Conference a little less.

Because it no longer means a break from the regular three hours of church? ^_^

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3 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I’m shocked. Really wasn’t expecting this. Unfortunately my streaming has been cutting in and out so I’m not getting everything.

 

however I fully sustain the change. I’m not entirely sure how family study will work with my part member family but when I can review the talks and pray about it I’m sure the Lord will make things clear

You can study with the members of your family who are willing to join you — or by yourself if need be. 

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Start a study group 

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2 hours ago, why me said:

I don't think that they will do what is expected of them. Rather, it is more likely to become a part of the day to experience and enjoy. People just don''t have the 3 hours anymore on a Sunday without feeling overwhelmed.

It’s a matter of priorities. 

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3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

That's what I can't figure out. What are singles missing?  Are we supposed to stop talking about families at church to make singles feel less excluded?  

If I have the opportunity I try to avoid Sunday School because I prefer my own curriculum. So very frequently the 2nd hour was for me a chance to read what I wanted, or just sit in the chapel and stare vacantly into space if I wanted.  Now that will be gone.  Should I be disappointed?

In my elders quorum there is one brother, who is married with a few children, and he has been complaining that he doesn't feel welcome in priesthood.  I have no idea why.  He's not the ward nutter that people avoid, ward members seem to be giving him and his family attention while they're at church, and I don't know what the heck he's expecting.  I know that I have always made a point to be friendly and welcoming with him at church. 

 

There’s so much I want to say to your first paragraph but I’m going to play nice and bite my tongue instead. But I’d bet there’s at least one woman here who could read my mind. Guys? Not so much. 

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37 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s a matter of priorities. 

I think that more and more people just want to enjoy the day and have more time to do it. People just see themselves being too busy with work, family and church. So, the church is cutting back to give people less stress in their lives. But since people are people, many will perhaps spend the extra hour on social media.

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42 minutes ago, Doctrine 612 said:

Start a study group 

Yes.  I think this will be great.

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There is something about just sitting in a large group of Saints all gathered to be part of my community, my life that is a unique and comforting experience for me even when I am deeply in introvert mode. The variety of the people there (not just singles or couples, not just adults, not just women, but a representation of everyone in my community/faith family) contributes to feeling connected to the Church itself and not just the individuals I know. 

If there are others who feel the same way and have little to no opportunity to fill the void with something else that gives a similar sense of connection, especially if just sitting quiet and listening is rejuvenating for them, I can imagine why there would be great disappointment in losing so much of the time set aside for this in their life. Socials lack the sense of sacredness for me, study groups are more intimate feeling and have their own positives but they don’t create that sense of belonging to ‘it all’. 

I hope that wards and stakes don’t respond to older singles’ needs to be part of the community by  just creating more groups of singles, but invite everyone and instead encourage families to use freed up time to expand their visits with others in the ward who have less opportunity to be with other Saints. The extra hour can be used for ministering as that should, imo, be consider as part of our personal study of how to become better followers of Christ. 

Perhaps options of having a pot luck dinner followed by a fireside after church once a month or more might be considered. A fireside might feel easier to get involved in and could even have a study group afterwards for those who want to have a more personal experience and have the time to do so. 

Setting up study groups that both interact online as well as meets together might attract more participants. People could post observations as they study on their own that others may find helpful or motivating as they study and then when gathered, those comments can provide a springboard for discussion. 

Edited by Calm
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Well, from a PFR standpoint, I won't be having to restock the paper towels and tissue as often. Woot !!

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4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

That's not the issue.

It's when the testimony is such that they can say anything they want and we assume it's always inspired.  It removes any weight from their pronouncements and renders them insignificant.

If they say A and it's inspired but the very opposite B would be equally inspired as would C, or D, then why on earth should their announcement of A be seen as important.  Opposite B would have been just as inspired apparently.

Precisely.  The claims for revelation for things like this make revelation any out of any hum drum idea or policy change about as unique, special, or inspirational as any other idea or policy change made in each and every corporation, country or club out there. 

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4 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Great news especially for those with younger children.  Sitting in meetings for 3 hours is difficult for young kids.  They need to move and are naturally active. 

The other option was the one Brigham Young recommended regarding children in the chapels:

"In all probability our congregations will be large, and we shall be under the necessity of being a little stringent and exacting in regard to leaving the children at home and in preserving quietness and order while in the house. You may think it a little unreasonable, sisters, to make such a request, but it is not so, for you who are here this morning have seen the great amount of confusion and annoyance the crying of children has caused; and if you cannot, for the space of two or three hours, forego the pleasure of gazing upon the faces of your little darlings, just stay at home with them."

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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Because it no longer means a break from the regular three hours of church? ^_^

And with the adult and leadership meetings it can be even more time consuming. ;) 

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4 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

I'm trying to be positive about this change because I do believe our leaders are led by inspiration and revelation... however, I'm someone with physical challenges that can find it difficult to get myself up and ready, and drive to the Church for the 3-hr meeting(s).  Now the emphasis is focused more on the home for learning/teaching... and with the reduced time allotted for church, it hardly seems worth the effort... the new changes emphasize teaching children/families... families, children, families, children, families... in the home.  I have no family... I'm totally alone... the change to "ministering" has curtailed my HTs regularly bringing the priesthood into my home, instead replacing it with an occasional phone call and "call us if you need us"... and brought my already sporadic VT visits to a complete halt with only an occasional phone call to "check on me."  As an elderly single sister I used to feel left out... now I also feel my aloneness even more acutely... 

It is through my own efforts to reach out that I have any real amount of closeness to the Church remaining... 

GG 

I hear you GG. I've yet to get a visit, and I've lived in this new ward since last January. And since the new ministering program, I still had no visits, and wonder if it just freed up those that are super busy to just visit or call every 3 months. I understand the loneliness too, even having a husband, I still feel it. I seriously wondered if other churches meet more often, something I'd never think I'd say. 

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I take the new schedule as a giant step in the direction of "teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves."  I look forward to having more energy to reach out and strengthen friendships and connect more frequently with family.  Our son and his family were on this schedule five years ago when they were in UAE.  They felt more connected to the branch members and developed friendships that continue to this day.  They are excited about the new schedule.

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6 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

I'm trying to be positive about this change because I do believe our leaders are led by inspiration and revelation... however, I'm someone with physical challenges that can find it difficult to get myself up and ready, and drive to the Church for the 3-hr meeting(s).  Now the emphasis is focused more on the home for learning/teaching... and with the reduced time allotted for church, it hardly seems worth the effort... the new changes emphasize teaching children/families... families, children, families, children, families... in the home.  I have no family... I'm totally alone... the change to "ministering" has curtailed my HTs regularly bringing the priesthood into my home, instead replacing it with an occasional phone call and "call us if you need us"... and brought my already sporadic VT visits to a complete halt with only an occasional phone call to "check on me."  As an elderly single sister I used to feel left out... now I also feel my aloneness even more acutely... 

It is through my own efforts to reach out that I have any real amount of closeness to the Church remaining... 

GG 

That is what my Mum was saying as well, if you are going to get all ready for Church then make it worthwhile getting there, besides of which if you have little kids bundling them up for 2 hours hardly seems worth it

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Our son, his wife, and their son are very excited about this change. For them, it works. My wife and I are also excited about it. 

I think change is hard - if the change was returning to the old schedule of two hours in the morning and then a 1 1/2 hour meeting in the evenings there would be even more bellyaching and gnashing of teeth. People will get out of attending church, partaking of the Sacrament, and attending a lesson what they put into it; regardless of how long or short it is. 

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3 hours ago, Calm said:

There is something about just sitting in a large group of Saints all gathered to be part of my community, my life that is a unique and comforting experience for me even when I am deeply in introvert mode. The variety of the people there (not just singles or couples, not just adults, not just women, but a representation of everyone in my community/faith family) contributes to feeling connected to the Church itself and not just the individuals I know. 

If there are others who feel the same way and have little to no opportunity to fill the void with something else that gives a similar sense of connection, especially if just sitting quiet and listening is rejuvenating for them, I can imagine why there would be great disappointment in losing so much of the time set aside for this in their life. Socials lack the sense of sacredness for me, study groups are more intimate feeling and have their own positives but they don’t create that sense of belonging to ‘it all’. 

I hope that wards and stakes don’t respond to older singles’ needs to be part of the community by  just creating more groups of singles, but invite everyone and instead encourage families to use freed up time to expand their visits with others in the ward who have less opportunity to be with other Saints. The extra hour can be used for ministering as that should, imo, be consider as part of our personal study of how to become better followers of Christ. 

Perhaps options of having a pot luck dinner followed by a fireside after church once a month or more might be considered. A fireside might feel easier to get involved in and could even have a study group afterwards for those who want to have a more personal experience and have the time to do so. 

Setting up study groups that both interact online as well as meets together might attract more participants. People could post observations as they study on their own that others may find helpful or motivating as they study and then when gathered, those comments can provide a springboard for discussion. 

And I remember hearing in the talk that just because it's a 2 hour church now, doesn't mean members can't hang around and socialize afterwards. That might have been brought up already, and in my mind I see that more will do that, and not be in such a rush to get home. So there is that. 

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This will make it easier for non-Mormons (potential converts), too. When I first went to LDS church I wasn't excited about spending 3 hours there. Cutting out an hour and a class will make it less of an initial impediment.

But hey, try talking a non-Catholic into going to a Latin high mass. For that matter, try talking a Catholic into going, ha.

(actually, my experiences with getting non-Catholics to go have been rather good. A lot of people are intrigued by the idea of something ancient with incense and chanting and elaborate vestments, etc. It's the Catholics who tend to balk at it.)

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44 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

And I remember hearing in the talk that just because it's a 2 hour church now, doesn't mean members can't hang around and socialize afterwards. That might have been brought up already, and in my mind I see that more will do that, and not be in such a rush to get home. So there is that. 

In my ward, there are usually some who socialize in the hallways or the foyer instead of going to class. Perhaps now they will attend class and socialize afterward. Perhaps.

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3 hours ago, Anon the Great said:

Have you been around men who receive audible visions or words from God and are deceived by their carnal mind ideas believed since birth by tradition that skew the ideas by irrational thoughts created by the theology?   For example, the man in the link below has deceived himself by assuming his trip to heaven was about the third heaven, but the vision is about his trip to the first heaven that is full of symbols and is not the reality of the flesh.  However, if we have the Holy Spirit we can discern the ideas being taught that are true.  I recommend nobody believe the ideas of Roy Sausek to interpret the visions, dreams, and audible voice from God.  Roy has misunderstood what God is showing him in every point, including three spots on the bride.  The true ideas are from the Lord in the visions, dreams, and audible Words.  Some of the words come from Roy's spirit and not the Holy Spirit, so he deceives himself.  The dumb ideas are from Roy based on his false paradigms in his heart that he believed as a child that are wrong:

http://www.takehisheart.com/

Is this the kind of confusion you want instead of listening to the Still Small Voice and the Logos Word of Reason in the Bible?.  I have met about 50 men and women like this that God sends His power to, but they are all drunk on God's power and deceived by the carnal mind.  The direction the Church is taking to teach its members to trust in the Still Small Voice or light of God that has no darkness is the right direction to go to not be deceived by the carnal mind or carnal senses when it comes to believing eternal truth.  I have no idea if you even know visions and revelations like this exist from the Lord.  Christianity is full of a lot of spiritual pygmies because the theologians that get paid to dream up irrational assumptions and ideas that are believed to be true but are not in the Bible.

Do you have any idea how crazy your disconnected and disjointed statements make you seem?

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2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Do you have any idea how crazy your disconnected and disjointed statements make you seem?

I've giggled at how the board has rather ignored his posts for this exact reason. Maybe there's a language issue? Google translate?

In any case, his posts have made me think of O Brother Where Art Thou:

that-dont-make-no-sense-makeameme-ord-31

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