It's Official- 2 Hour Block

[Nevo]

I just read some of the fine print about the new change. Gospel Principles class is gone. Teacher council meetings will now be once a quarter. Also, no more combined Aaronic and Melchizedek opening exercises, no more singing "Ye Elders of Israel" or "Praise to the Man" together. No hymn at all, actually. Just straight into a lesson (based on a conference talk).

[Duncan]

20 minutes ago, Nevo said:

I just read some of the fine print about the new change. Gospel Principles class is gone. Teacher council meetings will now be once a quarter. Also, no more combined Aaronic and Melchizedek opening exercises, no more singing "Ye Elders of Israel" or "Praise to the Man" together. No hymn at all, actually. Just straight into a lesson (based on a conference talk).

I'm not seeing the no combined priesthood opening exercises, where is that found? I believe you, I just want written proof, should this hit the fan☠️

https://www.lds.org/church/news/changes-help-balance-gospel-instruction-at-home-and-at-church?lang=eng

Edited October 7, 2018 by Duncan

[Raingirl]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

There is something about just sitting in a large group of Saints all gathered to be part of my community, my life that is a unique and comforting experience for me even when I am deeply in introvert mode. The variety of the people there (not just singles or couples, not just adults, not just women, but a representation of everyone in my community/faith family) contributes to feeling connected to the Church itself and not just the individuals I know. 

If there are others who feel the same way and have little to no opportunity to fill the void with something else that gives a similar sense of connection, especially if just sitting quiet and listening is rejuvenating for them, I can imagine why there would be great disappointment in losing so much of the time set aside for this in their life. Socials lack the sense of sacredness for me, study groups are more intimate feeling and have their own positives but they don’t create that sense of belonging to ‘it all’. 

I hope that wards and stakes don’t respond to older singles’ needs to be part of the community by  just creating more groups of singles, but invite everyone and instead encourage families to use freed up time to expand their visits with others in the ward who have less opportunity to be with other Saints. The extra hour can be used for ministering as that should, imo, be consider as part of our personal study of how to become better followers of Christ. 

Perhaps options of having a pot luck dinner followed by a fireside after church once a month or more might be considered. A fireside might feel easier to get involved in and could even have a study group afterwards for those who want to have a more personal experience and have the time to do so. 

Setting up study groups that both interact online as well as meets together might attract more participants. People could post observations as they study on their own that others may find helpful or motivating as they study and then when gathered, those comments can provide a springboard for discussion. 

Your first paragraph speaks volumes to me.  I think you are really onto something here and articulated it beautifully. 

It’s especially magnified for me having no family in the church (really no family at all in the practical sense) and living in an area where I won’t encounter another member of the church unless  I’m at church or the temple.  

A couple of years ago I was in a medical building that had a balcony type design. I was waiting for my appointment when I heard a gentleman on the floor below whistling “I Am A Child of God”. I was astonished, thrilled, and terribly curious. 

[Nevo]

36 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I'm not seeing the no combined priesthood opening exercises, where is that found? I believe you, I just want written proof, should this hit the fan☠️

https://www.lds.org/church/news/changes-help-balance-gospel-instruction-at-home-and-at-church?lang=eng

It's on page 3 of the supplement to the First Presidency letter: https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/general-conference/16435_000_First-Presidency-Letter.pdf?lang=eng

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by Nevo

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, sheilauk said:

All the chapels I know need keys.   I don't know about all the chapels in the UK of course.  Plus my ward has an alarm to set.  

I wonder if our ward meetinghouse in Sussex has an alarm?  I know how to set the doors so that they lock when they shut, and that doesn't seem to need a key...  but an alarm?  I gotta check.

My old ward's meetinghouse in Olympia, Washington doesn't have an alarm, but the doors can be set to lock when closed.  We also have a brother check for building security once each night after everyone has supposedly gone home.  I used to enjoy doing that, because my house was just two blocks away.  Well, I digress...

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, sheilauk said:

I understand and feel much the same way.  I did not even know there were new member lessons for some years,  I never got them.   Didn't even have a gospel doctrine class!  I have had 3 visits by the priesthood holders,  most of the time I don't know who my HT / ministering brethren are.  And I mainly see my ministering sisters at church because it's hard to arrange suitable appointments with me working and our evening schedules. And I have no family in the church or who live nearby.   Oh well, have to just keep going!   (And I have had little sleep today so also particularly cranky! )  I wish we all lived nearer to each other!

If you have a smart phone, you can use the LDS Tools app to find out who your ministering folks are.  And be proactive: call them and ask them to visit you.  Half the time your home teachers/ministering brothers worry about whether or not you would welcome their visits.  Telling them will remove doubt and enhance the possibility that you will be visited.  Won't guarantee it, but it will help.

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Raingirl said:

There’s so much I want to say to your first paragraph but I’m going to play nice and bite my tongue instead. But I’d bet there’s at least one woman here who could read my mind. Guys? Not so much. 

Yeah, I can be a bit "guyish" sometimes. I apologize.

I spent six months being a 64 year old widower three years ago.  I suppose that I am a bit more self-contained about things than others, and perhaps my situation was different due to my recent bereavement, but I didn't feel like a fifth wheel at church like some singles seem to feel.  Perhaps I'm ill-equipped to understand.

[Stargazer]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The other option was the one Brigham Young recommended regarding children in the chapels:

"In all probability our congregations will be large, and we shall be under the necessity of being a little stringent and exacting in regard to leaving the children at home and in preserving quietness and order while in the house. You may think it a little unreasonable, sisters, to make such a request, but it is not so, for you who are here this morning have seen the great amount of confusion and annoyance the crying of children has caused; and if you cannot, for the space of two or three hours, forego the pleasure of gazing upon the faces of your little darlings, just stay at home with them."

If the children came to feel that coming to church was some kind of privilege or stage of life that they had to "grow up" for (like starting school, being allowed to go to a sleepover, etc), perhaps they might appreciate church more.  It's a little hard on the mothers who have to forego church, however.

[Calm]

 

3 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

It's a little hard on the mothers who have to forego church, however.

Very true, so have the dads do it.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Nevo said:

I just read some of the fine print about the new change. Gospel Principles class is gone. Teacher council meetings will now be once a quarter. Also, no more combined Aaronic and Melchizedek opening exercises, no more singing "Ye Elders of Israel" or "Praise to the Man" together. No hymn at all, actually. Just straight into a lesson (based on a conference talk).

If it means discontinuance of the priesthood meeting opening exercise hymn, then I'm all for it.  Unless they're singing Ye Elders of Israel or Praise to the Man, and they can't sing those every week, they can't sing.

[Stargazer]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

 

Very true, so have the dads do it.

Yes, I thought of that, too.  But if their husband is the bishop or something like that...

[DesterWallaboo]

Church has been considering doing 2-hour block for several years.... so this really isn't all that new of an idea. I'm pretty sure they wanted to get the curriculum completed first before making the move.

However, today I was a bit bummed when there was no cheer when the 2-hour block was announced. So I put this baby together for all of ya.



And the original video file I created with the audio...

 

[Garden Girl]

5 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Our son, his wife, and their son are very excited about this change. For them, it works. My wife and I are also excited about it. 

I think change is hard - if the change was returning to the old schedule of two hours in the morning and then a 1 1/2 hour meeting in the evenings there would be even more bellyaching and gnashing of teeth. People will get out of attending church, partaking of the Sacrament, and attending a lesson what they put into it; regardless of how long or short it is. 

I love Sac mtg and taking the Sacrament... and would pray "I know this is where I belong, Father, and where I should be"... (because sometimes I could barely get there).   I mostly enjoy the talks and can always find something that uplifts me... and I love Gospel Doc class because it is the place we discuss the gospel... I will still love whatever the schedule will be because there will still be the sacrament, which is the most important thing to begin with... 

GG

[Calm]

DesterWallaboo, Nice first post.  

And absolutely fantastic name.

[DesterWallaboo]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

DesterWallaboo, Nice first post.  

And absolutely fantastic name.

Thanks, mate!

[Meerkat]

6 hours ago, Nevo said:

Teacher council meetings will now be once a quarter.

Interesting.  Please give me the reference for this new instruction.  It makes sense, but the online manual looks like it should be monthly.  Maybe it hasn't been updated yet.  " Each ward should hold monthly teacher council meetings in which teachers can counsel together about principles of Christlike teaching."  I'd like to verify.  Maybe I need to go back and relisten to Elder Cook's talk.  Thanks Nevo!

Edited October 7, 2018 by Meerkat

[bluebell]

7 hours ago, Meerkat said:

Interesting.  Please give me the reference for this new instruction.  It makes sense, but the online manual looks like it should be monthly.  Maybe it hasn't been updated yet.  " Each ward should hold monthly teacher council meetings in which teachers can counsel together about principles of Christlike teaching."  I'd like to verify.  Maybe I need to go back and relisten to Elder Cook's talk.  Thanks Nevo!

It's included in the email that the church sent out yesterday afternoon on the new changes.  Scott's new thread has a link to it in the OP.

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Anon the Great said:

The post addresses why the LDS leaders focus on the Still Small Voice rather than dramatic visions and revelations of God's power.  He is leading the Church away from its occult roots.  My posts are very clear and to the point.  Your post is meant to distract and shift the attention away from the truth.  Indeed, this is off topic, and so, can you answer the questions:  What is gender?  Is it an idea or feeling?  Or is it determined by what body we live in?  When was this gender decision made?   How was it made?   Who made the decision?  Can we make some reasonable decision on the matter based on evidence we can observe?   I believe we can.

You are complaining about how the post is off-topic so you decide to get it back on track by asking questions that have nothing to do with the topic?

[Calm]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You are complaining about how the post is off-topic so you decide to get it back on track by asking questions that have nothing to do with the topic?

Maybe he got confused about what thread he was on. 

[Avatar4321]

On 10/6/2018 at 9:06 PM, The Nehor said:

Do you have any idea how crazy your disconnected and disjointed statements make you seem?

No. I'm pretty sure he doesnt.

We just need to keep praying for him.

[rongo]

On 10/6/2018 at 10:03 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

Will members make good use of the extra time, or will they spend it in indolence or in ways that are less than compatible with Sabbath observance?

That isn't for us to say. All that the Church can do is teach correct principles, let us govern ourselves, and give us the opportunity to take hold of it and use it in the spirit intended. It reminds me of what President Packer said in 1988 in the series of meetings with the "reduction in time and money commitments" emphasis. The intended effect is very similar then and now:

"If we do, then that vacuum will be filled with prayer and work and study, study for school, for instance, study of the gospel. It will be filled with faith and reverence. It will be filled with the intimate love between husband and wife, with the tender love of parents to children. There will come a safe and virtuous dependency. Latter-day Saints will come to depend upon the Lord instead of upon the headquarters of the Church . . . There is some risk associated with what I am saying. Perhaps some will excuse themselves and do little or nothing. That is not much of a risk considering the many we lose because they cannot pay the price asked of them . . . That space belongs to families. When we cut down on Sundays to the block plan . . . and left some time open, you know what happened. Now brethren, it is their time. Let them use it as they feel to do --- for better or for worse. That is the risk.”  (Boyd K. Packer, "A Plea to Stake Presidents," Leadership Training Meeting, April 1, 1988)

[rongo]

On 10/6/2018 at 10:33 AM, Stargazer said:

I'm pretty sure they were speaking about those groups that were promoting private doctrine.  I seem to have heard Elder Cook saying something about study groups that used church-sponsored materials for curriculum.

There is always risk involved when you allow study groups on personal initiative outside of priesthood oversight. I think the potential reward is worth the risk, and there will be casualties. Personal study groups allow charismatic and dominating individuals to lead people astray, but hopefully members have their own revelation and common sense to not be taken in. If that's the case, then "that which does not kill you makes you stronger." 

I think, overall, if members want to gather on their own initiative and discuss the gospel, that is a good thing. Even if you get some weird approaches. This also affords members the experience of considering other viewpoints, and choosing the mature, solid way for them. 

[mnn727]

On 10/6/2018 at 2:29 PM, bluebell said:

A lot of people are too poor to hire movers though, and a lot of things require stronger helpers than one man and one woman.

In some areas you are correct, We however live in a very affluent suburb, if you can afford to live here, you can afford to hire movers. We hired movers throughout our married life whenever we moved, its actually very inexpensive for what they do. Besides I'm getting to old to assist younger people who can afford to hire movers, move in or out.

[Gray]

[mnn727]

On 10/6/2018 at 2:53 PM, sheilauk said:

All the chapels I know need keys.   I don't know about all the chapels in the UK of course.  Plus my ward has an alarm to set.  

Locking from the inside does not require a key in my building, unlocking from the outside does.