Bill Reel’s Conference Predictions

[rongo]

1 hour ago, halconero said:

As I previously pointed out, Elders serve as common judges in areas where they’re called as branch presidents.

The key being that these elders (increasingly rare, as most are high priests now) are set apart as branch presidents with delegated keys given to them. This is a far cry from an EQP in a ward or branch (and therefore, with keys under a bishop or branch president) being given the authority to do common judge duties.

Mission presidents are set apart as common judges for their missionaries.

Yes, and in areas with disctricts, they are common judges over everyone, not just their missionaries. Every single mission president is a high priest, however.

That still doesn’t make it doctrinally impossible, and all of the precedents for female judges

I've never seen any indication that Deborah, Huldah, et. al. had common judge duties and authority. None. For that matter, most of the judges in the Book of Judges were military deliverers (as were the female judges), not ecclesiastical judges. I think this is a poor example for those seeking to grant women interview and temple access authority. 

[halconero]

14 minutes ago, rongo said:

The key being that these elders (increasingly rare, as most are high priests now) are set apart as branch presidents with delegated keys given to them. This is a far cry from an EQP in a ward or branch (and therefore, with keys under a bishop or branch president) being given the authority to do common judge duties.

Yes, and in areas with disctricts, they are common judges over everyone, not just their missionaries. Every single mission president is a high priest, however.

I've never seen any indication that Deborah, Huldah, et. al. had common judge duties and authority. None. For that matter, most of the judges in the Book of Judges were military deliverers (as were the female judges), not ecclesiastical judges. I think this is a poor example for those seeking to grant women interview and temple access authority. 

To your first two points:

Great, we agree that there’s no restriction against non-Bishops acting as common judges.

To your second point: the Old Testament calls Deborah not only a judge, but a prophetess. This indicates she held a level of spiritual judgement.

A final point:

I think both you and some others here are mistaking my points for advocacy. I’m not advocating anything. I’m not seeking anything. I haven’t raised any of these thoughts in church, to church leaders, or even any members.

I just see them as strong possibilities in the future of the church, perhaps closer to the 2nd coming, see them as having historical and scriptural precedents, and wouldn’t be suprised if they happen.

I also won’t be disappointed if they don’t happen. I’m content with the idea of ward organization changing. I’m also content, and in fact sustain, the idea that any change or maintenance of the status quo be directed by the prophets.

If you don’t think those changes are likely, cool. If you don’t like those changes, alright.

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, halconero said:

To your second point: the Old Testament calls Deborah not only a judge, but a prophetess. This indicates she held a level of spiritual judgement.

Does it?

Spiritual judgment over other people in a common judge capacity? Or is it talking about the gift of prophecy in general? 

While you're not advocating for change, you obviously think that women should have (or could have) common judge authority based on what you think the precedent is in Judges. I don't see it there, not even as a stretch.

[halconero]

50 minutes ago, rongo said:

Does it?

Spiritual judgment over other people in a common judge capacity? Or is it talking about the gift of prophecy in general? 

While you're not advocating for change, you obviously think that women should have (or could have) common judge authority based on what you think the precedent is in Judges. I don't see it there, not even as a stretch.

Could have? Yup.

Should have? Up to the Lord and his prophets.

The role of a Judge in the Old Testament was much more expansive than that of a military leader, and yes, it involved adjudicating the affairs of the covenant people according to the Gospel Law of the time (Law of Moses).

The Judges were a set apart position, called by the Lord via revelation, as indicafed by Judges 2:16-18.

They were called to be military leaders (specifically “inspired military leaders,” as many of their victories involved some measure of calls to repentance or inspired counsel). This military leadership was primarily founded on spiritual guidance and judgement, as the death of a judge often indicated a relapse into idol worship (Judges 2:19-20). Notice that heading the counsel of the judges was predicated on spiritual covenant keeping, not necessarily heading military strategums. The Lord raised up judges in response to idol worship, not military defeats, indicating a primarily spiritual role (Judges 2:11-17). Israel’s rejection of the judges is indicated to be spiritual, not military (Judges 2:17).

They were called to adjudicate in temporal affairs. Judges 4:4 indicates that Israel came up to Deborah for judgement as she sat under a palm. Psalms 82 is commonly understood (and reads pretty clearly in Hebrew - the word “judge” in verse 2 mirrors exactly the word used to describe the judges of pre-monarchy Israel, to the exclusion of other possibilities) to outline the roles of the judge, including metting out justice for the weak, the orphaned, the destitute the lowly, and the needy. The word “deliver” in the context of delivering them out of the hands of the hands of the wicked should be read as providing temporal justice or restitution.

Finally, part of the rubric for a judge is outlined in 1 Chronicles 17:6,10. The judges were to reign over Israel, being commanded of the Lord to “feed them.” Now, this could be read as temporally feeding them, but that’s an impossible reading in Hebrew. The word used there indicates spiritual feeding. In fact, better translations render this as “shepherding” them. Also that the tribal unit over which they ruled was the foundational unity for the people of Israel. In a time where there was no division between secular and spiritual government, the judge was understood to be the most basic shepherd, or spiritual leader, of their tribe. 

In sum, the roles of a judge:

- To turn the people away from idolatry, and towards the worship of Jehovah.

- To rule over their respective tribes in both temporal matters, and matters pertaining to the law.

- To “feed” or “shepherd” their tribes spiritually.

- To oversee the mediation and meting out of temporal justice for the poor, needy, orphaned, and weak.

Yes, the judges of ancient Israel led their people militarily. They also led them spiritually, and judged them according to the laws of the Gospel pertaining to that dispensation. They were the common judges, both temporally and spiritually, of their tribal units, the most basic units of the covenant people at that time.

On a final note, the idea that Sisters may judge the worthiness and spirituality of other women is not a new idea in this dispensation. Enrollment in the Relief Society was not automatic at its inception, or in its original reorganization in Utah. Applications to join the society had to be made, so that the leaders of Relief Society could review and judge the worthiness of the sister to be a member of the society. Emma oversaw recruitment and review of applications. Joseph at the time remarked that the Relief Society was patterned after similar organizations in the Old and New Testament. Joseph was evidently okay with the notion that women leaders could asses the worthiness of other women as pertaining to membership in their organization.

That is not to say that how the current Relief Society operates is wrong. I’m saying that there is precedent for Sisters to sit in judgement in matters pertaining to spiritual worthiness. I’m also saying that I forsee the possibility of this being expanded. Whether it should happen or not is up to God, and I sustain His leadership on the matter either way.

[mfbukowski]

18 hours ago, Judd said:

Nevertheless, the people began to harden their hearts, all save it were the most believing part of them, both of the chapel Mormons and also of the internet Mormons, and began to depend upon their own strength and upon their own wisdom, saying:

Some things Bill may have guessed right, among so many; but behold, we know that all these great and marvelous works cannot come to pass, of which has been spoken.

And they began to reason and to contend among themselves, saying:

That it is not reasonable that such a being as Bill shall know the truth; if so, and he have a source, the mole in the CoB, as it has been spoken, why will he not name him unto us as well as unto them who shall be paying for his podcast?

Well at least we know now who ACTUALLY wrote the Book of Mormon, or at least who his sockpuppet is in the latter days. 

 

[ksfisher]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

The key being that these elders (increasingly rare, as most are high priests now) are set apart as branch presidents with delegated keys given to them.

This is what is done with the branch in my stake.  The branch president has always been set apart as a high priest

And agreed that having an elder, serving as branch president, act as a common judge is very different that and elders quorum president, who does not have that authority.

[DBMormon]

The two I said I was most confident would happen in conference did (2 hour block and SLC temple closing for renovation).  The others came from the same source and I was informed weeks before conference hence I have confidence that most if not all of my reported rumors were discussed in top councils pf the church.  I also said upfront that I didn't expect all of these to happen, only that if the two I said would did, you could be confident about the others being in a discussion at top levels. So... theres that

 

[Duncan]

4 hours ago, DBMormon said:

The two I said I was most confident would happen in conference did (2 hour block and SLC temple closing for renovation).  The others came from the same source and I was informed weeks before conference hence I have confidence that most if not all of my reported rumors were discussed in top councils pf the church.  I also said upfront that I didn't expect all of these to happen, only that if the two I said would did, you could be confident about the others being in a discussion at top levels. So... theres that

 

This is what you wrote as per your FB thing on Oct. 1st. You made mention of conference predictions on Sept. 29th when you doubted their veracity, "The Church is losing its pull on people. You will see significant changes this General Conference (If my sources are correct)." so, if you heard these "weeks before" conference you didn't make mention of them until the 29th of Sept. which is not "weeks before". I only post that because you fault others for not recording historical events the day or the day after they happened, Like Joseph Smith said if you expect perfection from them they should expect it from you, but you don't deliver. In addition, what are we to believe, "weeks before" or "recently"? you didn't post it until the 29th. Again you fault people in the past for not recording events on the same day or day after i.e Lorenzo Snow's Vision, Aug. 8th, 1844 Brigham Young's tranformation.

"So many of the public voices have their sources for inside info. I like them have mine. Recently I was made aware of several potential announcements coming out from General Conference about about a week ago. Today’s Episode dives into the Rumors that are out there, the Inside info I have, and the reasons why these changes would happen. I am more certain about some of these, less certain about others, but for the nuanced, liberal, or non-believing Mormon such things make tolerating conference more bearable and almost interesting!!!"

1.) Males and Females can go on Missions at 18 and serve 24 months: these combats the severe decline in the # of Missionaries serving.

2.) Removing the One year waiting period across the board if one has a civil marriage first. – The removes the tension this is causing many and relieves one item on the shelf of some who step back due to Mormonism’s abusive mechanisms.

3.) Going to a 2 hour block as the standard. This relieves those who are overly burdened in callings and it allows a ward to get by with less people due to the exodus of members. It also allows those who don’t feel uplifted to more easily justify continued attendance.

4.) Missionaries to serve only in the country they live.

5.) for those going through the endowment for the dead, reducing the endowment session to 1 hour. Again reducing the burden and boredom of younger members who lack the same blind commitment to the Church that their parents and grandparents had.

6.) This one seems mundane but is at the heart of the rumors. The SLC Temple will close for a 5 year renovation. If this one comes to pass, I trust the other 5 even if not implemented are being discussed in depth in top Church circles

7.) The temple interview made less rigid and less about keeping belief standards to accommodate a younger generation walking away from activity and adherence to Church standards."

 

here's what I don't understand you say "Recently" but you also said, "weeks before" so which is it? and why didn't you post these predictions on FB or the podcast thing either? 

here's your gaslighting

You say now you are "most confident" about two (SLC Temple and Shorter Church) and "I also said upfront that I didn't expect all of these to happen, only that if the two I said would did [sic]" but where did you say that because for the SLC Temple we get "if this one comes to pass" you don't sound "Most confident". Let's move on shall we to shorter Church, where do we get that you are "most confident" about that rumour? You say nothing about how confident you are it'll happen. The most we could get is you are generically "more certain about some" and "less certain about others" but you now say that the two you are "more certain" and "most confident" are the ones that actually happened, which sounds today most convenient, "if your sources" or "source" is correct. What are we to believe Bill? Your sources told you information but you doubt they are "correct" yet you are "most confident" and "more certain"?

Edited October 9, 2018 by Duncan

[HappyJackWagon]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 6:57 PM, rockpond said:

Bill Reel released a new episode of his Mormon Discussions Podcast yesterday (10/1/18) that gives six predictions for general conference. 

1. Lowering the age for sisters to serve missions (to 18) and allowing them for serve for 24 months. 

2. The two-hour block. 

3.  Removing the one year waiting period between a civil marriage and a temple sealing. 

4.  Changing the “requirement” of wearing garments to only when you are doing temple work. 

5.  Creation of a short endowment ceremony, under an hour, that cuts out the video segments. 

6.  Long term (5 year) closure of the Salt Lake Temple for major renovations.  Reel specifically put forward this one as a test of his source.  He said that the source that gave him the above items said that the SL Temple closure was discussed in the same meetings as the other items above. 

He isn’t necessarily saying that all six items will happen in this conference, just that they are all being discussed among the Brethren.  

So...obviously only 1 of these things happened during conference. That's not to say that changes won't continue to happen, but so far the only significant change is with the 2 hour block (and of course the whole "Mormon" thing).

While I'm happy about the 2 hour block I feel let down. I was expecting a "snowstorm" of revelation, in the sense of revealing something previously unknown. I was expecting changes. But it seemed like the same stuff. Are the leaders who urged people to watch because of the snowstorm of revelation coming, guilty of overhyping conference and setting expectations too high. I mean, the 2 hour block is a big deal, yet it doesn't quite seem like a snowstorm of revelation.

And did anything happen with the mission calls that were going to be revealed in conference?

Edited October 10, 2018 by HappyJackWagon

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

So...obviously only 1 of these things happened during conference. That's not to say that changes won't continue to happen, but so far the only significant change is with the 2 hour block (and of course the whole "Mormon" thing).

While I'm happy about the 2 hour block I feel let down. I was expecting a "snowstorm" of revelation, in the sense of revealing something previously unknown. I was expecting changes. But it seemed like the same stuff. Are the leaders who urged people to watch because of the snowstorm of revelation coming, guilty of overhyping conference and setting expectations too high. I mean, the 2 hour block is a big deal, yet it doesn't quite seem like a snowstorm of revelation.

And did anything happen with the mission calls that were going to be revealed in conference?

no, el zippo about mission calls! but I was thinking like where would they even send missionaries that would need to be announced at conference? Milwaukee?

[Okrahomer]

6 minutes ago, Duncan said:

no, el zippo about mission calls! but I was thinking like where would they even send missionaries that would need to be announced at conference? Milwaukee?

Oklahoma

[Duncan]

3 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

Oklahoma

Oklahoma is home to none other than Mr. Jim Thorpe! One of the Greatest Olympians of all time! I think you are covered🥇

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

So...obviously only 1 of these things happened during conference. That's not to say that changes won't continue to happen, but so far the only significant change is with the 2 hour block (and of course the whole "Mormon" thing).

While I'm happy about the 2 hour block I feel let down. I was expecting a "snowstorm" of revelation, in the sense of revealing something previously unknown. I was expecting changes. But it seemed like the same stuff. Are the leaders who urged people to watch because of the snowstorm of revelation coming, guilty of overhyping conference and setting expectations too high. I mean, the 2 hour block is a big deal, yet it doesn't quite seem like a snowstorm of revelation.

And did anything happen with the mission calls that were going to be revealed in conference?

I'm gonna call it "1.5 of his predictions" have happened.  I think that 0.5 is important because I had not heard anyone else talk about a SLTemple renovation which could indicate that his source has some modicum of inside knowledge.

As for the "snowstorm", I think there are several possibilities:

1. Those who made/repeated the snowstorm comment felt that the 2 hour block + home study program were big enough on their own to warrant the snowstorm description.
2. There were late changes in deciding what to announce.
3. Block change/home study + 12 temples = snowstorm?
4. They were considering the ward council changes as part of the snowstorm (those weren't announced but were sent out as an email during conference weekend).
5. It was a little over-hyped.

Some combination of those?

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

So...obviously only 1 of these things happened during conference. That's not to say that changes won't continue to happen, but so far the only significant change is with the 2 hour block (and of course the whole "Mormon" thing).

While I'm happy about the 2 hour block I feel let down. I was expecting a "snowstorm" of revelation, in the sense of revealing something previously unknown. I was expecting changes. But it seemed like the same stuff. Are the leaders who urged people to watch because of the snowstorm of revelation coming, guilty of overhyping conference and setting expectations too high. I mean, the 2 hour block is a big deal, yet it doesn't quite seem like a snowstorm of revelation.

And did anything happen with the mission calls that were going to be revealed in conference?

Maybe they are holding back with some of these. I'm expecting more to come, especially with the missionaries. 

[SettingDogStar]

I was actually hoping (thought not making any bets) that we would possible get some new "thus saith the Lord" revelations presented. I know we as a Church have drifted to this paradigm that everything in conference is scripture and revelation doesn't need to start with that phrase. While I agree to an extent I also differentiate between inspiration and revelation. I think the talks are inspired of the Lord but are not necessarily directly the Lord speaking to His church. However I really believe that this "home centered, Church supported" shift, name emphasis, and two hour block is in preparation for revelation soon to come AND that some of these may have written revelations behind them that have not been published. I love the direction the church is being directed and I'm confident it's going to start weeding out those that aren't and/or don't want to commit to Gospel away from church!! I don't want to lose brothers and sisters, but its just a sign of the times to me!

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

I was actually hoping (thought not making any bets) that we would possible get some new "thus saith the Lord" revelations presented. I know we as a Church have drifted to this paradigm that everything in conference is scripture and revelation doesn't need to start with that phrase. While I agree to an extent I also differentiate between inspiration and revelation. I think the talks are inspired of the Lord but are not necessarily directly the Lord speaking to His church. However I really believe that this "home centered, Church supported" shift, name emphasis, and two hour block is in preparation for revelation soon to come AND that some of these may have written revelations behind them that have not been published. I love the direction the church is being directed and I'm confident it's going to start weeding out those that aren't and/or don't want to commit to Gospel away from church!! I don't want to lose brothers and sisters, but its just a sign of the times to me!

That's funny/not funny that you purport that the church is going in the direction of "weeding" out the people who aren't commited when I heard during conference that they want to go after those that are inactive or non commited. Which was really a relief to me because that's the church I've always belonged to/believed in. The day they start to weed out people is the day this church will fail. Your sign of the times comment seems a little ingenuous to me, almost giddy sounding. 

[SettingDogStar]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's funny/not funny that you purport that the church is going in the direction of "weeding" out the people who aren't commited when I heard during conference that they want to go after those that are inactive or non commited. Which was really a relief to me because that's the church I've always belonged to/believed in. The day they start to weed out people is the day this church will fail. Your sign of the times comment seems a little ingenuous to me, almost giddy sounding. 

Well I’m giddy I suppose because I want to be able to experience the millennium and the great events that precede it in my life time. I apologize if it sounded like I was giddy for people to leave the church, that wasn’t my intention.

I for sure heard the talks speaking about going after those that need us and helping those that aren’t committed to the gospel to get back on track, and I agree! Some of my best stories from mission was working with Less Active members and wandering sheep. However I suppose I meant that I’m excited for the chance for those that are committed to now have the opportunity to get even close to the Lord. Also those that were fence sitters before will be either motivated by the new spiritual opportunities now available or will start to fade..which means we can really start to be able to find those with testimonies that need strengthened and our brothers and sisters that need help!!

Not sure is that makes sense, but I do apologize how my original comment came off now that I re-read it! 

[Tacenda]

30 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

Well I’m giddy I suppose because I want to be able to experience the millennium and the great events that precede it in my life time. I apologize if it sounded like I was giddy for people to leave the church, that wasn’t my intention.

I for sure heard the talks speaking about going after those that need us and helping those that aren’t committed to the gospel to get back on track, and I agree! Some of my best stories from mission was working with Less Active members and wandering sheep. However I suppose I meant that I’m excited for the chance for those that are committed to now have the opportunity to get even close to the Lord. Also those that were fence sitters before will be either motivated by the new spiritual opportunities now available or will start to fade..which means we can really start to be able to find those with testimonies that need strengthened and our brothers and sisters that need help!!

Not sure is that makes sense, but I do apologize how my original comment came off now that I re-read it! 

I'm sorry that I jumped all over you, that's usually not my style, but I'm one of those that hasn't been committed like I was for 40 years or more, faith crisis. But there are some days that I cling hard to the religion of my birth. I'm probably quite a bit older than you, did I read somewhere on one of your posts that you used ipads on your mission, I could have got that wrong. But I'm the one that needs to apologize, especially since you're new. And truly I enjoy the rest of your posts, and appreciate what you really wanted to say and I misinterpretated it. You will get along fine here, and you're needed to offset the likes of people like me, lol! Take care!

[SettingDogStar]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm sorry that I jumped all over you, that's usually not my style, but I'm one of those that hasn't been committed like I was for 40 years or more, faith crisis. But there are some days that I cling hard to the religion of my birth. I'm probably quite a bit older than you, did I read somewhere on one of your posts that you used ipads on your mission, I could have got that wrong. But I'm the one that needs to apologize, especially since you're new. And truly I enjoy the rest of your posts, and appreciate what you really wanted to say and I misinterpretated it. You will get along fine here, and you're needed to offset the likes of people like me, lol! Take care!

No not a problem! Honestly the wording of my original post totally sounded like I was excited for it 😂 I was half asleep and missed some words! I’m so excited that you still continue to cling to you faith and haven’t given up even in a time of crisis, that’s really hard to do..especially if it’s an issue that rests on yours and Christ’s shoulders. Very difficult but very commendable! And your passion is amazing and noteworthy! Plus I appreciate getting called out if I say something that could have upset someone, so thank you! 

Oh and yes, I only got off my mission like a year ago so I’m pretty fresh like my title says “without form and void!” Haha

[Stargazer]

On 10/3/2018 at 8:29 AM, ksfisher said:

Why?  Is there a pressing need to make a change?

There's a new style of men's garment that I helped test drive last year.  Big improvement.

 

[rongo]

13 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

There's a new style of men's garment that I helped test drive last year.  Big improvement.

They're not getting rid of men's one-piece Corban fabric, are they? I'll need to stockpile if that's the case!  

[Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

They're not getting rid of men's one-piece Corban fabric, are they? I'll need to stockpile if that's the case!  

No idea!  I don't like Corban, so it wouldn't affect me if they did.

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

There's a new style of men's garment that I helped test drive last year.  Big improvement.

Details? Was it men's stretch cotton?

1 hour ago, rongo said:

They're not getting rid of men's one-piece Corban fabric, are they? I'll need to stockpile if that's the case!  

I can't tell if you're joking or not here, but it's funny either way since you've clearly pegged your online persona ...

Edited October 11, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[kllindley]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

They're not getting rid of men's one-piece Corban fabric, are they? I'll need to stockpile if that's the case!  

That happened a year ago. 😔 Now I've got to see how long my stock pile lasts. .   

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Details? Was it men's stretch cotton?

Yes.