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One third of Millennial Mormons who go on a mission are returning early


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4 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Waylon, just curious and forgive me if you have already stated ....but what years did you serve and was it in the US?  My female cousin put herself in a closet crying because they could not make the numbers with the cold calls of the 60's mission in California. Of course, this was at the time when they would go through telephone books and classes for salesmen.

My mission was in the early 2000s in France

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6 hours ago, Waylon said:

Remember how you said you were trying to understand the experiences of those who didn't like their missions?  I think a big difference is right here.

Aside from my mission president issues, my mission was a complete numbers-driven pressure cooker.  We were told we were supposed to be baptizing monthly.  Since no one was getting this (you were lucky to baptize once your entire mission), there was a big push towards teaching a certain number of first discussions a week (this was in the day of the six discussions).  We were told to miss P-day if we had to to get our target discussions.  Basically, it was all about grinding numbers, which is apparently very different from how mission work is done now.  As a very introverted person who could barely even talk to girls in high school, I had a very, very hard time with this kind of mission.  I certainly never had very good stats, and things just never took off, even though for the most part I worked hard.  I also feel I never really adjusted fully to doing missionary work - it always felt "weird" for me.

I think my mission may be an anomaly - most people have really good experiences and miss their missions when it is over.  I did not, and I do not, despite the fact I am still active and believing after rebuilding my testimony.

I kind of wonder if I would do better under the current guidelines than how things were run back then.

I absolutely think you would have had a night and day difference in a "normal" mission. And you were in France! It is insane to expect discussions taught daily anywhere in Europe. Yeah, that is totally not healthy. 

Germany is very similar to France in that regard. We were taught, by both mission presidents, to do our best and work hard. Neat things happened every day, but teaching was a special event. Teaching deep into the discussions with people who were genuinely making progress was . . . wow. 

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On 10/5/2018 at 4:45 AM, Rain said:

I think some think that the mission will change them so they want them out the door quickly to get that good influence, not realizing the harm it may do.

I fear this too, but then I want Church leaders to do better in this area and maybe let the parents know that their hopes are 'premature'. I've actually seen that work here in a number of areas, and I think it's an essential element of leadership.

We actually had a stake disciplinary council this week, to consider lifting a disfellowshipment. The 15 of us unanimously wanted that to happen, but to be honest, we weren't sure the person in question was ready for it. Our question to the Lord was where this brother was more likely to grow. In the end, it was back in full fellowship in the Church, but we didn't reach that conclusion lightly, and it was with eyes wide open to his immaturity in the gospel and what are likely to be his future struggles. As a consequence, the decision came with a list of things we will be doing to continue working with him and helping him.

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My oldest didn't go on a mission ... I wish I would have expressed that he wasn't ready more strongly, but how do you go against the bishop's "inspiration", especially when he had already talked to my son about it? 

Thank you for sharing this personal information and for the rest of your post as well! I know it's all complicated. I would hope that parents can 'go against' a bishop when it's their child in question. I would hope that bishops would be open to those kinds of frank conversations.

Again, thanks!

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On 10/5/2018 at 6:39 AM, rongo said:

Wow, reading these has really led me to consider (for the first time, really) that missions might not be "amazing" and "fun" and "exciting" for all people.

I think it may be quite important to realise that fact.

I've expressed in this thread (and elsewhere) the foundational value that my mission has played in my life, but I can honestly say that I've never really considered it amazing, fun or exciting. It was hard -- so hard, in fact, that I nearly surrendered. The sole thing that intervened and kept me going was the grace of Christ. This means that, without my mission, I wouldn't know the reality and power of the Saviour as I do, which is priceless. But it wasn't fun getting there. I have literally never come back from a darker place.

And even after I started to learn to surrender to Christ, it was still another 16 months of hard, often scary, always exhausting work. I still remember breaking down and sobbing in the interview where I was first called to serve as a district leader. 'President, I have only just started to feel like I can do this missionary thing; I can't possibly be in charge of helping others!'

I also remember the mission president's interview in the ward with the psycho ward mission leader where I was determined not to say anything negative, but then, when the mission president asked how I was, I just trembled and sobbed again. I couldn't even get a word out. His response: 'Well, it looks like it's probably time to transfer you'. I was serving as a zone leader at that point and close to the final quarter of my mission.

I certainly grew. I spent my last four transfers as an assistant to the president. I remember telling him one evening near the very end of my service that he could pair me up with Elder G---- and send the two of us to P-----------, and I would be fine with it. This Elder was the one that no one in the mission was willing to serve with any longer, so we were kind of minding him in the office, and this branch was the acknowledged 'black hole' of our mission. But my offer wasn't because I thought any of that sounded 'fun', just that I knew I could do it. The president's response: 'You know what that means, Elder? It means it's almost time to send you home. Clearly that's nothing more for you to learn here!

I do say with all honesty that I loved my mission! With all my heart! I am especially grateful for the people who listened to me. I'm still in contact with many of them, and what wonderful blessings have come into their lives as a consequence of conversion! One of them recently reconnected with me through Facebook, and when I assured her she'd found the right person, her response was priceless: 'Oh, Elder! You are at the bottom of all my happiness!'

I'm also grateful for what my mission taught me personally. It nearly killed me ... and then it saved me -- by converting me to Christ and by equipping me to live in a crazy world that requires faithful grit and determination.

One of the women whom I taught as a missionary was talking to me through Facebook a while ago and explaining how hard it has been to have a son with a very serious and difficult mental disorder. She said, 'I know this would be hard with or without the gospel, but it's certainly easier to deal with because of what I have in my life'. She's not having fun with her son, either, but the gospel has given her the tools she needs to survive and enjoy peace, and that is enough.

I want others to have those blessings, too, but I've never held back on the price that many (I'm tempted to say all?) missionaries (disciples?) end up paying to get there.

On 10/5/2018 at 9:51 AM, Rain said:

It was finding something to do.

This. I spent my first winter as a missionary in a little country town. Our area included two smaller towns as well. Altogether, they had 20,000 people. The sun set mid-afternoon, and by 3:30, it was pitch black. We'd keep knocking on people's doors, but no one would even open because we were strangers and it was -20C outside. We did all we could to be useful to someone somewhere, but often our efforts were really just a way to show the Lord that we were serious.

One more reason why I'm a huge fan of the Church's current 'all of the above' approach to missionary work, including working with people online. I would have loved having that option!

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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On 10/5/2018 at 10:09 AM, rongo said:

That's one reason why I think all missionaries should go foreign, and domestic wards and stakes should teach their own investigators (either ward missionaries, or simply as a quorum or society).

If all 'domestic ward and stakes ... teach their own investigators', there would be nowhere 'foreign' for any missionaries to go. Unless you are creating a special class of American Saints?

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21 hours ago, Danzo said:

One of the things I have learned is that the full time missionary program is just training for the real missionary work that happens afterwards.   

Exactly!

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I certainly have baptized more people after my mission than during my mission. 

Same!

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The missionaries are very restricted on where they can go and who they can teach, whereas after the mission we can do missionary work by ourselves, with a companion we choose (my favourite is my wife).  We can work with people anywhere in the world and we can work with them for years or decades even without worrying about being transferred out. 

Exactly. I have been a missionary whilst camping, whilst swimming, etc., just to point out a few obvious examples. I have friends I've been working with for years, too.

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As I often tell our ward and our missionaries, after the mission the training wheels come off.

I tell them this, too! My formula is simple:

  • Live up to your privileges so that you have something to share.
  • Do good things.
  • Invite other people to join you as you do so.
  • As inspired, share what you know with those people.

This is all so much easier post-mission.

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18 hours ago, california boy said:

One of our weekly goals was to place 5 Book of Mormons.  I told him if he wanted stats, I would give him stats.  That week me and my companion placed 55 Book of Mormons.

We used to set a goal of giving away one copy of the Book of Mormon each month. Some months we even reached that goal! :P

The good news, for me, was that fully half of all the people I ever gave a Book of Mormon to read it and joined the Church. The other half read at least part of it.

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7 hours ago, Waylon said:

Aside from my mission president issues, my mission was a complete numbers-driven pressure cooker.

Yep, this would have killed me. The mission president right before mine had been like this. I actually think it's the lazy approach of a not-very-good mission president. My mission president was fantastic and moved the mission completely away from numbers to full-hearted ministering.

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1 hour ago, rongo said:

I absolutely think you would have had a night and day difference in a "normal" mission. And you were in France! It is insane to expect discussions taught daily anywhere in Europe. Yeah, that is totally not healthy. 

Germany is very similar to France in that regard. We were taught, by both mission presidents, to do our best and work hard. Neat things happened every day, but teaching was a special event. Teaching deep into the discussions with people who were genuinely making progress was . . . wow. 

Some of my best memories from my mission were befriending and talking with French Algerians.  I don't know what German Turks are like, but I noticed that French Algerians were often much nicer and more open to missionaries than just about everyone else.

There were limits, per the mission rules, to actually teaching French Algerians, due to the Church respecting Islam's tradition of non-proselyting, but we were allowed (and encouraged) to socialize and befriend.

Edited by Waylon
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8 minutes ago, Waylon said:

There were limits, per the mission rules, to actually teaching French Algerians, due to the Church respecting Islam's tradition of non-proselyting, but we were allowed (and encouraged) to socialize and befriend.

Can you explain this? I've never lived anywhere that we couldn't teach and baptise Muslims, including Indonesia.

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My first instinct to say why it may be that high...

1) Not really converted in the first place. They are just doing what they believe is expected of them. I know we don't force anyone to go. But even at BYU-I, I had quite a number of kids talk about how they did not want to mention they were not going on a mission. There still is an underlying current of the assumed "you're going....right?" in Latter-Day Saint society. 

2) People against the church are much more well informed about church history. As much great work we have done to come up with better rebuttals, they, in turn, have strengthened their attacks with better material. Most of these kids won't know how to really defend against it   This could cause any of them (especially those in category #1) to wonder what they are doing there.

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2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Can you explain this? I've never lived anywhere that we couldn't teach and baptise Muslims, including Indonesia.

My mission president was worried about potential honor killings due to religious conversion and advised us not to target Muslims for formal teaching. 

I do not personally know if this fear was valid, invalid, or only very occasionally valid.

Edited by Waylon
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9 minutes ago, Waylon said:

My mission president was worried about potential honor killings due to religious conversion and advised us not to target Muslims for formal teaching. 

I do not personally know if this fear was valid, invalid, or only very occasionally valid.

Thanks. Interesting.

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10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Can you explain this? I've never lived anywhere that we couldn't teach and baptise Muslims, including Indonesia.

In Germany, with really high immigration, we were not allowed to teach Iraqis, Iranians, Lebanese, Syrians, or Israeli citizens (the latter because of the agreement between the Church and Israel re: the Jerusalem Center). Regardless of how serious and converted they were, we could not teach them out of safety reasons. I've shared the story of the really good convert in my last area who was third in command in Kurdistan (and therefore should not have been taught, but the sisters who taught him didn't understand much His German was excellent, and he was a true convert). In Hamburg, in 1996, conditions for the Hamburg cell of Al Quaida were alive and well. 

There were some Turkish and other Muslim converts, but the "key indicator" was really whether they could speak German or not (motivation to integrate). 

I would imagine that France, with its high Muslim population (and high non-integrating Muslim population) would also be a "tread lightly" area.

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11 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think it may be quite important to realise that fact.

I've expressed in this thread (and elsewhere) the foundational value that my mission has played in my life, but I can honestly say that I've never really considered it amazing, fun or exciting. It was hard -- so hard, in fact, that I nearly surrendered.

 

Mine was hard, but also really fun, exciting, and amazing. A true adventure. Miracles. Crazy things happening. Laughs. Experiences with people who knew my father (same mission, late 1960s). Problem solving. Cultural enrichment. And many more things I can't think of right now. And it was that way at the time, too, not just in retrospect. I really don't have a day go by where I don't think about people, places, and events from my mission. 

I can see that I need to be more understanding that this will not be the experience of everyone. 

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11 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

If all 'domestic ward and stakes ... teach their own investigators', there would be nowhere 'foreign' for any missionaries to go. Unless you are creating a special class of American Saints?

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. American Saints still provide the bulk of missionaries --- while acknowledging that this has gotten better in many places. 

If all of the Americans who go stateside went foreign, it would be possible to do so many things in weak areas. Of course, there would also be the issue of kids who can't handle the shock or the stress. 

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17 hours ago, rongo said:

In Germany, with really high immigration, we were not allowed to teach Iraqis, Iranians, Lebanese, Syrians, or Israeli citizens (the latter because of the agreement between the Church and Israel re: the Jerusalem Center). Regardless of how serious and converted they were, we could not teach them out of safety reasons. I've shared the story of the really good convert in my last area who was third in command in Kurdistan (and therefore should not have been taught, but the sisters who taught him didn't understand much His German was excellent, and he was a true convert). In Hamburg, in 1996, conditions for the Hamburg cell of Al Quaida were alive and well. 

There were some Turkish and other Muslim converts, but the "key indicator" was really whether they could speak German or not (motivation to integrate). 

I would imagine that France, with its high Muslim population (and high non-integrating Muslim population) would also be a "tread lightly" area.

This has changed a little. My son's friend who was a missionary in Turkey, ended up in Germany for awhile when they got all the missionaries out of Turkey. He taught in Arabic (through Skype with his dad as translator) while there.

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17 hours ago, rongo said:

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. American Saints still provide the bulk of missionaries --- while acknowledging that this has gotten better in many places. 

If all of the Americans who go stateside went foreign, it would be possible to do so many things in weak areas. Of course, there would also be the issue of kids who can't handle the shock or the stress. 

One of the problems with this is those missionaries whow are perfectly capale of being on a mission, but don't get sent foreign because of health problems like type 1 diabetes.

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On 10/6/2018 at 10:58 PM, Rain said:

This has changed a little. My son's friend who was a missionary in Turkey, ended up in Germany for awhile when they got all the missionaries out of Turkey. He taught in Arabic (through Skype with his dad as translator) while there.

We were always able to teach Turks/ people from Turkey. That might change, depending on how extreme Turkey goes under Erdogan. It was just those five countries we couldn't teach. Once, an Iraqi Christian (red hair and blue eyes) asked me on the street what that blue book in my hand is. He excitedly told me that he could get 100 people from the Auslaenderheim to church on Sunday, and I had to put the brakes on that (both due to Church policy, and logistics). 

He told me that Christianity was brought to Iraq by Thomas the apostle. Armenia claims that as well, and legend has it that he died in India. 

I had really good success with Pakistani graduate student media referrals. Very smart, interested, and impressive. 

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Since there have been non-Millenial mission stories posted here, I guess I will post mine.  Germany, 1972-74.

I was introduced to the church at age 14 through a school mate.  The day I met him was the day he introduced me to the church.  It took a year before I was baptized, but it happened.  Due to my father's employment I ended up in first Toronto, Canada (where I was inactive) and then Cheltenham, England, where I reactivated, got my patriarchal blessing, and decided to serve a mission.  

Because I had dealt with extreme shyness most of my young life, and was only coming out of it at about the time I was in Canada and England (not to mention having undiagnosed Attention Deficit Disorder, making studying difficult), and because my experience in church was so limited, I had decided that serving a mission didn't apply to me. But my patriarchal blessing changed my mind.  My father, a nonmember, didn't see it that way, and after finishing the British equivalent of high school sent me home to the US since I wouldn't be able to save up enough money for a mission in the UK, because he wasn't going to pay for a mission.  In fact, he offered to pay for my mission, but only on condition of my obtaining my Bachelors degree first, which he would also pay for.  Since I knew that if I didn't go on my mission then, I was very unlikely to serve it later, so I said thanks but no thanks.  I disappointed him terribly, I know, which I regretted, but one must do what one must do.  This was the first time in my life that I ever asserted my own will in such a way.  I'm actually surprised I did it, looking back on my young self.

After spending several months working and saving for my mission, and with the promised help of my elders quorum, I put in my papers in and was sent to the Germany Duesseldorf Mission (then called Central German Mission).   I had generally good companions who wanted to do the work, and only had one problem companion, who was very hard to get along with, and once tried to push me into fighting him.  I called the mission president and asked for a transfer, which he granted me.  This elder would have been my last companion except for that.  I spoke better German than my second companion, and only got better over time.  By the time I left, many Germans that I came into contact with could tell I wasn't a native of Germany, but some thought I was German-speaking Swiss!  I felt very much out of my depth for much of the first half of my service, but ended up helping to teach an amazing family and baptizing them about halfway through.  The husband of this family was called into the branch presidency as a priest after only three months of membership (even though there were qualified MP holders in the branch), was in the stake presidency before I went home from my mission, and eventually was head of the CES for all of southern Germany.  His last calling was bishop of his ward, from which he was released only three months before he passed away, just three years ago.  He was my only baptism.  In another town I helped teach an elderly lady who joined the church, but that was it.  During the period of my service our mission experienced the lowest rates of baptism in its history since the end of the second world war.  After I left things got better, so perhaps it was my fault! 🙂 

My mission president was a German-born US citizen who had served in the German army during WW2, and who had joined the church through his wife sometime during the war.  After war's end, he was called to serve a full-time proselyting mission (as a married man), and served in the Soviet Zone. He ended up being put in jail by the Russians several times for his missionary activity, along with his companion, likewise a German war veteran member of the church.  This companion was the mission president whom he relieved as mission president on the day I arrived in Germany.  He was on the same plane I and five other elders arrived in Germany in.  I'll always remember meeting him after the landing in Duesseldorf: he came up to us and greeted us as our new mission president while looking very nearly as disoriented and out of place as we felt!  When the current mission president arrived to pick us all up, it was quite a reunion of the two former missionary companions -- this was in fact an extraordinary situation, because the two presidents were of pretty much one mind due to their bonding experiences as missionaries together, and with all the then currently serving missionaries knowing the relationship of these two brethren, the new president was able to use that relationship to provide a marvelous degree of continuity.  Our president's wife was a wonderful woman, too, who could sing like a bird -- she was in fact a singer with the <ahem> Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  They brought their three youngest children with them, all girls. Their oldest, a boy, was then serving a mission, too, I don't remember where.  They were a wonderful family.  Most of my fellow missionaries were fine lads and lassies.  One of them was a future General Authority.

I loved my mission, though I felt that my service was below my own expectations.  It was a fine thing that our mission president was not focused on numbers, though he wanted to know what we were doing. Pretty much my favorite activity was tracting; less favorite was street board.  I found it easier to approach people if they were behind a door than if they were walking through the market square, or wherever we set these things up.  My one baptism was off a street board display.

In fact, all of Germany was at that time a very hard mission.  Most of my fellow elders and sisters only managed to get one or two baptisms.  Although I only baptized one man, he was the husband of a family with two children, so I guess I could count my full effort as resulting in 3 baptisms.  One elder in one of my districts went home without any baptisms -- and he wasn't the only one, either.  Germany after the war was full of some rather hardened Germans.  They were not rude, but they were definitely not very interested in religion, and very worldly minded.  I guess the hard times and poverty after a devastating war can have some effects!

Well, that's my story. 

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1 hour ago, Royce said:

Well, I work with an FMG and see missionaries all over my state avoiding weather and having fake party meetings with the sisters and watching movies and playing board games and eating pizza, so no, it's not harder than it used to be.

I don’t believe you.

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On 9/26/2018 at 11:47 AM, phaedrus ut said:

According to Jana Reiss's column at Religion News Service 1/3 of Mellennial Mormons who go out on a mission are returning early. 

https://religionnews.com/2018/09/26/more-mormon-missionaries-are-coming-home-early-study-shows/

Are missions harder now than they once were, are missionaries softer now, or is it something else? 

Phaedrus 

The current 18-22 year olds are not millenials.

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On 10/5/2018 at 10:24 PM, thatjimguy said:

My first instinct to say why it may be that high...

1) Not really converted in the first place. They are just doing what they believe is expected of them. I know we don't force anyone to go. But even at BYU-I, I had quite a number of kids talk about how they did not want to mention they were not going on a mission. There still is an underlying current of the assumed "you're going....right?" in Latter-Day Saint society. 

2) People against the church are much more well informed about church history. As much great work we have done to come up with better rebuttals, they, in turn, have strengthened their attacks with better material. Most of these kids won't know how to really defend against it   This could cause any of them (especially those in category #1) to wonder what they are doing there.

People against the church aren’t more informed. They just think they are. If they were as informed as they think, they would repent and be baptized

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