Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
woo-sow856

Trying to see eternal perspective of a marriage in crisis

Recommended Posts

I am an active member of the church having a particularly difficult time with my marriage, and am looking to hear from people who have been married about their feelings in their respective relationships so I can help know what to expect.  My wife and I have grown apart so much that it feels there's hardly any of the person l fell in love with left in her.  While her and I have our arguments, which have reached intense levels, we've reached a point in our daily lives where things have neutralized out for the most part.  We're able to treat each other as a person we don't necessarily like but whose presence can nonetheless be endured.  
I am asking myself, though, if this is what marriage is supposed to be about.  I know that it's hard for people to keep romantic love throughout their marriage, but I never would have guessed that things would feel this far from it.  I feel depressed enough about this that I have lost much of my interest in anything in life, and I dread the thought of having to endure life from here.  I am of course working with counselors and my bishop about things, and don't present any danger to myself or that kind of thing.  My wife isn't too open to hearing my concerns or getting marriage counseling.

If anyone has experiences you can share of dealing with this feeling of hopelessness in one's marriage and making sense of it in light of the gospel, I would love to hear them.  I've of course made this a matter of prayer, but feel completely left to myself without any sense of assurance.  Sorry if this sounds overly negative, but as I see this as a crisis in my life, I felt hearing peoples' experiences would be a start in trying to sort through this.  Thanks.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Many in your circumstances find a way back to a healthy marriage (what you are describing isn't one, nor the way it has to be).   So don't give up.   If you haven't seen "Fireproof", get it.  Watch it alone.  Get the manual and try it.  

And you should get personal counseling with someone with marriage expertise, even if your wife won't go at first.  You need help in figuring how you can be your own best self.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Marriage is definitely not supposed to be like that. I think that getting out of a rut in a marriage, especially one that comes with a lot of resentment towards the other partner, can really difficult and very hard to do without help.  Each partner has so much baggage that it can feel impossible to even communicate about little things effectively, forget about communicating about real problems.  Are you doing what you can?  Are you praying, reading your scriptures, going to the temple, and asking God to help you see your part in fixing things?  Are you praying for your wife and her welfare?

I don't think your situation is hopeless, but I think that satan has a big stake in wanting you to feel that way.  Christ is the center of hope and drawing nearer to Him will help (which i'm sure you know, but when we are in crisis, it's very easy to forget the things that we know).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Based on your post, your marital troubles seem to stem largely from contention.

Have you ever considered just giving in and letting your wife win when you argue?

I mean, I get it.  I don't like being walked all over either.  If I find my parents, friends, or total strangers try to argue with me, I will fight back with everything I have and not give in.  Part of the reason for this is I find the stakes in these relationships to not be that high.

However, the relationship with my wife is a little different.  I love it when people make comments like me and my wife are no longer two people, but one person, and thanks to our temple marriage we will always be two parts of the same person.  With that perspective in mind, assuming my wife is not pushing for behavior that is morally wrong, who cares who is right and wrong?  Who cares who wins in an argument?  Isn't it a little like fighting one's self?

I don't know what you are fighting about with your wife, but perhaps it is worth considering just giving in for the sake of having a happy marriage, that most issues become trivial when one realizes the awesome power of being sealed to another person for eternity.  Food for thought!

Edited by Waylon

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, woo-sow856 said:

I am an active member of the church having a particularly difficult time with my marriage, and am looking to hear from people who have been married about their feelings in their respective relationships so I can help know what to expect.  My wife and I have grown apart so much that it feels there's hardly any of the person l fell in love with left in her.  While her and I have our arguments, which have reached intense levels, we've reached a point in our daily lives where things have neutralized out for the most part.  We're able to treat each other as a person we don't necessarily like but whose presence can nonetheless be endured.  
I am asking myself, though, if this is what marriage is supposed to be about.  I know that it's hard for people to keep romantic love throughout their marriage, but I never would have guessed that things would feel this far from it.  I feel depressed enough about this that I have lost much of my interest in anything in life, and I dread the thought of having to endure life from here.  I am of course working with counselors and my bishop about things, and don't present any danger to myself or that kind of thing.  My wife isn't too open to hearing my concerns or getting marriage counseling.

If anyone has experiences you can share of dealing with this feeling of hopelessness in one's marriage and making sense of it in light of the gospel, I would love to hear them.  I've of course made this a matter of prayer, but feel completely left to myself without any sense of assurance.  Sorry if this sounds overly negative, but as I see this as a crisis in my life, I felt hearing peoples' experiences would be a start in trying to sort through this.  Thanks.

4

Hello Woo, 

I don't think you are alone in your feelings about marital relationships. It sounds like you are talking to a marriage counselor and your bishop. If they help, please continue to use them.

Relationships go up and go down. A loving relationship does the same thing, but a lover - that's you - never stops loving regardless of the actions of the other person. When the other person stops communicating or is quiet - it means they are quiet or they are dealing with something and are not ready to communicate. During these times you need to respect her silence and pay extra attention to making her life easier. Easier does not mean intrusive, it means doing things that make her life better. Be thoughtful and caring without crowding her personal space. Text her and let her know you are thinking of her, that you heard a song today that made you think of a particularly good experience you both shared. Make sure you are doing more than your share in familial duties. As time passes and she is more open to doing things together, then go to lunch or breakfast alone together, take walks, a drive, do things that you know she will enjoy.

More importantly, none of these actions should be construed to mean that if you do them she will respond in a loving manner to you. You do them for no other reason than she is your mate and you love her. You do not do them as a plan to manipulate her feelings and response. 

Take care of yourself - eat properly, get a decent night's rest every night, and make sure you are exercising. You do these things to enable yourself to have a more balanced outlook on life and to be a better you. Never stop courting your wife - look your best, don't dress like a slob at home, read about how to fall in love again. There are a lot of books out there and many of them are very good. 

St. Francis of Assisi encouraged others to preach the gospel at all times and when necessary use words. I think this statement is easily adapted to loving others and to loving our spouse; show your love always and when necessary use words. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I absolutely agree with Storm Rider and he has said it well.  I think the secret is to go over the edge of stop needing her to meet you half way, and simply give in to serving her as Christ would.  You can even pray to have the "eyes" to see her the way her Heavenly Father does.  It seems like you won't be happy without your needs and expectations met, but you actually will be happy and have peace when you are serving someone unconditionally--perhaps think of her less as your wife for a minute, and more as a daughter of God.  It will be a hard transition to go over this edge, but once you are familiar with the feeling of service it will feel like nectar to you and you won't even want to go back to your old self.

As far as eternity--almost I want to say, who knows?  But here and now you have a gift to grow to become more like Christ.

Buy your wife for eight cows.  (See the movie Johnny Lingo.)  Does she know she's an eight cow wife? :)

Maybe don't worry about the whole passionate romance thing yet.  Go for mature civility first.  Then maybe try friends.  Give it a year or two--don't be afraid of that.

Edited by Maidservant

Share this post


Link to post

I am recommending this, recognizing that my marriage has never got to the point yours has, so maybe it is not worthwhile to you, but it has helped me a lot. 

I have worked through this book twice now, several years apart. The Husband Project. It can easily be done as a wife project instead.

It is a 21 day plan to help you love your spouse more. You do this without your spouse knowing. This is important - this not how to change your spouse, but how to grow love in your heart for him/her.

Rather than specifics, each day has a theme and a prayer. One day may be complimenting her to a friend. Another day may be suggesting you both watch her favorite movie. All fairly little things.

You don't have to do them in order.  I found it best to calendar it so the smaller things could go on busier days and vice versa. All of these are made to be flexible and fit your situation.

I can't remember the specifics of the prayers, but they went along with the theme. Perhaps one day you are praying that she has courage to get through a tense meeting or another day that you will be blessed to hear her needs.

There are weekly intimacy things as well, but depending on what is happening with your marriage, the timing may not be right for that part - or maybe it is the perfect time.

May be worth praying over to see if it is right for you.

One word of caution- if you share a Kindle account be careful of ordering it that way in case it shows up for her too. She must not know about this - she may think that you are doing doing it to change her when it is all about changing you.

Edited by Rain
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Clearly you are a bad person or this would not have happened to you. Your wife is also bad. There is no way to fix this. Things are too far gone. You should just accept the status quo, you will never get or deserve anything better. Things are bad and therefore they will be bad forever.

.....A couple of thoughts you should completely ignore if they show up in your brain.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Clearly you are a bad person or this would not have happened to you. Your wife is also bad. There is no way to fix this. Things are too far gone. You should just accept the status quo, you will never get or deserve anything better. Things are bad and therefore they will be bad forever.

.....A couple of thoughts you should completely ignore if they show up in your brain.

Whew! So glad to read the concluding sentence!

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Clearly you are a bad person or this would not have happened to you. Your wife is also bad. There is no way to fix this. Things are too far gone. You should just accept the status quo, you will never get or deserve anything better. Things are bad and therefore they will be bad forever.

.....A couple of thoughts you should completely ignore if they show up in your brain.

Without knowing a lot more facts this is not far from the truth. 😑

Share this post


Link to post
Mormon dialogues response
 
[下書き]このメッセージは送信されていません。
保存時刻: 2018/10/04 (木) 0:21
 
 

 

Thank you for all who replied.  I commend those of you who are diligently trying to go about your relationships as the Savior would.  I thought I would ask, though-do any of you think there's a possibility that certain people can be too different to possibly make the marriage work?  Or that even if they do make it work through mortality, that they merely endured it and don't want to continue with it when they enter the next life?  It is theoretically possible for people to get married that aren't physically attracted enough to one another, who nonetheless go through with marriage for whatever reason (some examples I can think of are a foreign person who marries someone of a different country just to get access to permanent residency in that person's country, a returned missionary who marries a girl from his mission country because the girl reminds him of his love for his mission even though he hasn't grasped the sense of the person she is, etc.).  The level of differences in my marriage make me feel like I need to shave off the bulk of expectations I had for my life, and that all I have to hold on to is a little sliver of the things that actually have worked out.  I had high expectations for myself, and am having to learn to live with one who (no offense) feels like the very opposite.  I don't tell my wife that, of course, for fear of offending her, but the level of differences in our expectations (which have to do largely with differences in our socioeconomic background) are a constant source of pain and frustration. 

People say that happiness in marriage is something that can always be chosen, but if that's the case, why is it possible to feel so miserable notwithstanding me putting forth the effort, and to not be able to at least have some days where we can have the loving feeling restored?  Is it possible that once peoples' expectations have diverged to a certain level, that it is no longer in one's best interest to continue the relationship (the differences I'm talking about aren't morally wrong, but do definitely require drastic adjustments to one's expectations)?  If so, does anyone have any good ideas on how I can tell if I've reached that point?  I know this is a hard question, but I'm consistently feeling down about this issue, and being able to turn to people like all of you for help is a great source of support.  Thanks for your time. 

Share this post


Link to post

51ItBwnbJ6L._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

A few years ago, my bishop had me and my wife read this book:  https://www.amazon.com/Love-Languages-Secret-that-Lasts/dp/080241270X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1538779122&sr=1-3&keywords=five+love+languages

Each person needs to find out what actions or expressions appeal the most and to practise at one or two of the five love languages.  Your partners love language may be different from your love language.

Edited by longview

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/26/2018 at 7:48 PM, Maidservant said:

I absolutely agree with Storm Rider and he has said it well.  I think the secret is to go over the edge of stop needing her to meet you half way, and simply give in to serving her as Christ would.  You can even pray to have the "eyes" to see her the way her Heavenly Father does.  It seems like you won't be happy without your needs and expectations met, but you actually will be happy and have peace when you are serving someone unconditionally--perhaps think of her less as your wife for a minute, and more as a daughter of God.  It will be a hard transition to go over this edge, but once you are familiar with the feeling of service it will feel like nectar to you and you won't even want to go back to your old self.

As far as eternity--almost I want to say, who knows?  But here and now you have a gift to grow to become more like Christ.

Buy your wife for eight cows.  (See the movie Johnny Lingo.)  Does she know she's an eight cow wife? :)

Maybe don't worry about the whole passionate romance thing yet.  Go for mature civility first.  Then maybe try friends.  Give it a year or two--don't be afraid of that.

Everyone, thanks for your comments on this. They've given me something to strive for this last month or so, and have helped me give thought to the fact that perhaps I'm the one who is wrong in the relationship.  It's interesting that Maidservant mentioned Johnny Lingo, because I feel like that movie could have a misleading message depending on how you take it.  The message I got from it is that "one's spouse will feel more beautiful to you when you devote yourself to making them happy".  I feel like the whole concept of what it means to find beauty in one's spouse means something different depending on the person, but I feel like even the movie Johnny Lingo suggests that one should expect to want to feel physical attraction towards their spouse (note how at the end of the movie Mahana presents a completely different appearance to the point where she is stunning to those who meet her).  I believe it is possible to have a wife who, for lack of a better way of saying things, "has eight cows paid for them", only to show forth toxic behavior towards their spouse and to not want to become beautiful for them, in any sense of the word.  If one who has been muscling through this behavior for years and feels things are not getting any better, I'm wondering what the next step would be.  I am seriously at my wits' end, and I feel like I've been continuing this more so because I fear the spiritual consequences of quitting more so than anything.  Of course, I wouldn't want to part with my kids or do anything that would cause them grief, but continuing my marriage for the kids' sake alone is something I do not feel will ultimately lead to a better relationship with my wife.  The church has some general principles that can help people, but for those for whom the hurt in a relationship is beyond the help of those general principles, I want to know what to do next.  

I know this is hard topic to address people on, but it would be great to hear your feedback on any part of this you feel like you can help advise on (and for the record, I have taken this issue to my bishop and marriage counselors, and I feel they either lean towards wanting me to split up with my wife, or that they've seen so little progress in my marriage that they don't know how to help anymore).

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/29/2018 at 2:35 PM, woo-sow856 said:

Everyone, thanks for your comments on this. They've given me something to strive for this last month or so, and have helped me give thought to the fact that perhaps I'm the one who is wrong in the relationship.  It's interesting that Maidservant mentioned Johnny Lingo, because I feel like that movie could have a misleading message depending on how you take it.  The message I got from it is that "one's spouse will feel more beautiful to you when you devote yourself to making them happy".  I feel like the whole concept of what it means to find beauty in one's spouse means something different depending on the person, but I feel like even the movie Johnny Lingo suggests that one should expect to want to feel physical attraction towards their spouse (note how at the end of the movie Mahana presents a completely different appearance to the point where she is stunning to those who meet her).  I believe it is possible to have a wife who, for lack of a better way of saying things, "has eight cows paid for them", only to show forth toxic behavior towards their spouse and to not want to become beautiful for them, in any sense of the word.  If one who has been muscling through this behavior for years and feels things are not getting any better, I'm wondering what the next step would be.  I am seriously at my wits' end, and I feel like I've been continuing this more so because I fear the spiritual consequences of quitting more so than anything.  Of course, I wouldn't want to part with my kids or do anything that would cause them grief, but continuing my marriage for the kids' sake alone is something I do not feel will ultimately lead to a better relationship with my wife.  The church has some general principles that can help people, but for those for whom the hurt in a relationship is beyond the help of those general principles, I want to know what to do next.  

I know this is hard topic to address people on, but it would be great to hear your feedback on any part of this you feel like you can help advise on (and for the record, I have taken this issue to my bishop and marriage counselors, and I feel they either lean towards wanting me to split up with my wife, or that they've seen so little progress in my marriage that they don't know how to help anymore).

I'm a little confused. You say first that you are finding you might be the one wrong in this and then spend most of the time expressing that she is the one wrong in it. 

What does the Lord say? 

Share this post


Link to post

The Nehor/Rain-thanks for your responses.  Part of why I post these things is that I feel God has completely left me to figure out this situation on my own.  Not consistently feeling that I have access to personal revelation has been the story of my life in recent years, no matter how big or small the decision.  There have been times where I've had feelings that I've interpreted at first as the Spirit prompting me to keep trying, but to contrast that there have been times where the level of disgust and resent I've felt regarding problems in the marriage could not be more tangible.  I have these two contrasting feelings that seem that they're both as strong as the other, and if the answer lies in simply "interpreting what God is saying to me", I am at wits' end as to which I'm supposed to interpret as God's voice.  I recognize much of God's voice may be reflected in what other people say I should do.  The result here has been the same.  I've been hearing contrasting opinions as to what I should do.  I have tried the approach of continuing the relationship to see the what type of fruits the experience may lead to.  I have nevertheless been able to feel contented with what I have, or that it's completely where my heart lies.

 
I recognize the possibility of God having distanced himself from me because of my mistakes, but I can honestly say I am doing all I can to be closer to God regardless of them.  
I know this is a tough subject to counsel people on, but I'd appreciate the feedback any one can give, even if it's on a minor topic that's come up in this thread (e.g. how to make peace with the fact that God doesn't give clear answers even during the most trying of times, or to what extent we can "recognize God's voice in the voice of his servants" even though His servants can have widely varying opinions, etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, woo-sow856 said:

The Nehor/Rain-thanks for your responses.  Part of why I post these things is that I feel God has completely left me to figure out this situation on my own.  Not consistently feeling that I have access to personal revelation has been the story of my life in recent years, no matter how big or small the decision.  There have been times where I've had feelings that I've interpreted at first as the Spirit prompting me to keep trying, but to contrast that there have been times where the level of disgust and resent I've felt regarding problems in the marriage could not be more tangible.  I have these two contrasting feelings that seem that they're both as strong as the other, and if the answer lies in simply "interpreting what God is saying to me", I am at wits' end as to which I'm supposed to interpret as God's voice.  I recognize much of God's voice may be reflected in what other people say I should do.  The result here has been the same.  I've been hearing contrasting opinions as to what I should do.  I have tried the approach of continuing the relationship to see the what type of fruits the experience may lead to.  I have nevertheless been able to feel contented with what I have, or that it's completely where my heart lies.

 
I recognize the possibility of God having distanced himself from me because of my mistakes, but I can honestly say I am doing all I can to be closer to God regardless of them.  
I know this is a tough subject to counsel people on, but I'd appreciate the feedback any one can give, even if it's on a minor topic that's come up in this thread (e.g. how to make peace with the fact that God doesn't give clear answers even during the most trying of times, or to what extent we can "recognize God's voice in the voice of his servants" even though His servants can have widely varying opinions, etc.)

Woo, a marriage is two people and both parties must be committed to it for marriage to run smoothly. I hate divorce and reject it in the vast majority of circumstances. However, I do believe that it remains a choice in rare situations. First, God has not and does not abandon his children - that means the Spirit, his presence, etc., are always there. We believe that this mortal existence is about learning. When we think that God is not there, I often think of the situation where a father is trying to teach his child to walk. He is standing right behind the child, hands outstretched to the sides, and the child is fearful of taking steps into an area (s)he does not know. The child is frightened and cannot see their parent - they feel abandoned. Yet, the parent is standing right behind them. Opinions vary based on the different lessons others have learned. Our challenge is to listen and choose what works best for us. There is not a single answer - just your choice. Failure in the home remains the single most destructive influence in society and in the harm to children and the individuals involved. It creates wounds that are very, very difficult from which to heal. Yet, as I stated, in rare circumstances it is the right choice. I think you will know when it is the end of your relationship. You have a good head on your shoulders and are responsible for your own choices. No one can make the choice for you or tell you the right answer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

  I feel depressed enough about this that I have lost much of my interest in anything in life, and I dread the thought of having to endure life from here.

Quote

I recognize the possibility of God having distanced himself from me because of my mistakes, but I can honestly say I am doing all I can to be closer to God regardless of them.  

 

Depression can affect our ability to feel the Spirit in my experience.  Some medications can block spiritual communication as well.  It is frustrating to me that at times I would have very much appreciated feeling the spirit, I could not.  During one time I was on a med that turned off that part of my brain for several years, I started being able to see the Spirit still working in my life through others.  I learned that God can communicate with us in more than one way....though it was wonderful when I was able to discontinue that drug and that deadened feeling lifted.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, woo-sow856 said:

The Nehor/Rain-thanks for your responses.  Part of why I post these things is that I feel God has completely left me to figure out this situation on my own.  Not consistently feeling that I have access to personal revelation has been the story of my life in recent years, no matter how big or small the decision.  There have been times where I've had feelings that I've interpreted at first as the Spirit prompting me to keep trying, but to contrast that there have been times where the level of disgust and resent I've felt regarding problems in the marriage could not be more tangible.  I have these two contrasting feelings that seem that they're both as strong as the other, and if the answer lies in simply "interpreting what God is saying to me", I am at wits' end as to which I'm supposed to interpret as God's voice.  I recognize much of God's voice may be reflected in what other people say I should do.  The result here has been the same.  I've been hearing contrasting opinions as to what I should do. 

I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anything contrasting. I'm not going to go searching, because I don't think it really matters.

None of us can tell you to get out of the marriage. None of us can tell you to stay. We have no idea what is going on and even if we did we have no right to revelation. We can only give you ideas to help you make things stronger if that is what you choose to do or help you deal with things if you choose to leave. 

21 hours ago, woo-sow856 said:

I have tried the approach of continuing the relationship to see the what type of fruits the experience may lead to.  I have nevertheless been able to feel contented with what I have, or that it's completely where my heart lies.

 
I recognize the possibility of God having distanced himself from me because of my mistakes, but I can honestly say I am doing all I can to be closer to God regardless of them.  
I know this is a tough subject to counsel people on, but I'd appreciate the feedback any one can give, even if it's on a minor topic that's come up in this thread (e.g. how to make peace with the fact that God doesn't give clear answers even during the most trying of times, or to what extent we can "recognize God's voice in the voice of his servants" even though His servants can have widely varying opinions, etc.)

I want to talk on this, but there are other things I need to be doing right now and cannot fully give it the attention it needs so I will have to come back to it.  Just know I understand the feeling.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/26/2018 at 12:20 AM, woo-sow856 said:

I am an active member of the church having a particularly difficult time with my marriage, and am looking to hear from people who have been married about their feelings in their respective relationships so I can help know what to expect.  My wife and I have grown apart so much that it feels there's hardly any of the person l fell in love with left in her.  While her and I have our arguments, which have reached intense levels, we've reached a point in our daily lives where things have neutralized out for the most part.  We're able to treat each other as a person we don't necessarily like but whose presence can nonetheless be endured.  
I am asking myself, though, if this is what marriage is supposed to be about.  I know that it's hard for people to keep romantic love throughout their marriage, but I never would have guessed that things would feel this far from it.  I feel depressed enough about this that I have lost much of my interest in anything in life, and I dread the thought of having to endure life from here.  I am of course working with counselors and my bishop about things, and don't present any danger to myself or that kind of thing.  My wife isn't too open to hearing my concerns or getting marriage counseling.

If anyone has experiences you can share of dealing with this feeling of hopelessness in one's marriage and making sense of it in light of the gospel, I would love to hear them.  I've of course made this a matter of prayer, but feel completely left to myself without any sense of assurance.  Sorry if this sounds overly negative, but as I see this as a crisis in my life, I felt hearing peoples' experiences would be a start in trying to sort through this.  Thanks.

 

In my limited experience, here's a few ideas:

1. Take a trip, by yourself or just with your wife. No kids. Not to a place you've been to before that's close and note really a vacation.  "Absence makes the heart grow fonder when familiarity breeds contempt."

2. Don't expect your wife to understand how difficult it is to self-medicate with music, video games, exercise, etc. after juggling kids, work, homemaker wife (if that applies to you), callings, etc. Safe to think that: Everything you don't say is not understood nor intuited and is not being ignored or rejected; it's just not registering since she probably has a hard time expressing the difficulties of her juggling act, equal to yours.

3. My sister who's married to a bishop (FWIW) told me that: Anyone who says they never got angry or hated thier spouse momentarily is lying.  It's natural to feel certain feelings. Expressing them not suppressing them is also healthy when done in the right way.

4. Knowing people make mistakes, including sometimes when callings are issued, helps a lot.

5. Using reason and logic only to persuade does not always work as the Spirit speaks some things that are true yet totally unreasonable.

6. One goal of mine in marriage has been to persuade my wife's pioneer ancestors to simply nod in approval of my entrance into heaven when I'm at the judgement bar. This goal alone dwarfs any errors my wife may have made in the past. If your current framing of your relationship needs to be retooled or reframed, then do so.

7.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEDGFaXYIX8

 

 

Edited by nuclearfuels
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/29/2018 at 3:35 PM, woo-sow856 said:

 I am seriously at my wits' end, and I feel like I've been continuing this more so because I fear the spiritual consequences of quitting more so than anything.  Of course, I wouldn't want to part with my kids or do anything that would cause them grief, but continuing my marriage for the kids' sake alone is something I do not feel will ultimately lead to a better relationship with my wife.  The church has some general principles that can help people, but for those for whom the hurt in a relationship is beyond the help of those general principles, I want to know what to do next.  

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with a couple divorcing when their children are grown. While they are young though, I don't think its usually in the best interest of the children unless there is abuse or extreme neglect by one parent. This is just my opinion. My parents' divorce was extremely painful for me and almost caused us kids irreparable damage. (My parents actually ended up remarrying each other) However, if parents are extremely civil and cooperative, I have seen children do just fine through a divorce. If you do decide to stay in the marriage, I recommend that you find activities outside your marriage that bring you joy and fulfillment. Of course I'm not talking about another relationship but a healthy hobby--bike riding, going to the gym, rock collecting, cooking--whatever. You deserve some happiness and maybe that will eventually rub off on your spouse and you can find something you like to do together.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/4/2018 at 12:58 PM, woo-sow856 said:
Mormon dialogues response
 
[下書き]このメッセージは送信されていません。
保存時刻: 2018/10/04 (木) 0:21
 
 
 

 

Thank you for all who replied.  I commend those of you who are diligently trying to go about your relationships as the Savior would.  I thought I would ask, though-do any of you think there's a possibility that certain people can be too different to possibly make the marriage work?  Or that even if they do make it work through mortality, that they merely endured it and don't want to continue with it when they enter the next life?  It is theoretically possible for people to get married that aren't physically attracted enough to one another, who nonetheless go through with marriage for whatever reason (some examples I can think of are a foreign person who marries someone of a different country just to get access to permanent residency in that person's country, a returned missionary who marries a girl from his mission country because the girl reminds him of his love for his mission even though he hasn't grasped the sense of the person she is, etc.).  The level of differences in my marriage make me feel like I need to shave off the bulk of expectations I had for my life, and that all I have to hold on to is a little sliver of the things that actually have worked out.  I had high expectations for myself, and am having to learn to live with one who (no offense) feels like the very opposite.  I don't tell my wife that, of course, for fear of offending her, but the level of differences in our expectations (which have to do largely with differences in our socioeconomic background) are a constant source of pain and frustration. 

People say that happiness in marriage is something that can always be chosen, but if that's the case, why is it possible to feel so miserable notwithstanding me putting forth the effort, and to not be able to at least have some days where we can have the loving feeling restored?  Is it possible that once peoples' expectations have diverged to a certain level, that it is no longer in one's best interest to continue the relationship (the differences I'm talking about aren't morally wrong, but do definitely require drastic adjustments to one's expectations)?  If so, does anyone have any good ideas on how I can tell if I've reached that point?  I know this is a hard question, but I'm consistently feeling down about this issue, and being able to turn to people like all of you for help is a great source of support.  Thanks for your time. 

I haven't been married very long, but my master's degree is marriage and family therapy and I do couples work all the time in my office. I've seen that question pop up several times, especially when they're at odds with each other or seriously contemplating divorce. I think it comes less from the actual differences and more from how they learned to work and manage those differences in their life together that makes them difficult. 

Since I can't talk in detail about cases, I'll give my own marriage as an example of differences. On the surface, my husband and I seem extremely different in just about every aspect of life. He's peruvian, perfectionistic, a software engineer,  SUPER productive (the sort who feels bored and lazy if he slows down and does nothing for half a day), not emotional at all, logic oriented, a LOTR nerd, extremely introverted, likes structural design and meticulous detail, etc. I'm from the US, a "it's-good-enough" type, a therapist, super in touch with people's emotions, Artsy and like pretty stuff, sometimes lazy and easily distracted (like right now...supposed to be working on a talk), more feeling-oriented, don't know squat about LOTR, have a huge pool of friends, and hate being stuck in structural activities, etc. We have plenty of differences between the two of us. But we've also never been happier as when we're together. We work to make our home US...not him or me. We prioritize each other in both our obligations and hobbies, and we support each other and meet up with each other in our interests as much as possible. I play more games now so we can do things together at the end of a long day. He takes me on dates and indulges my inner-extrovert by attending a few major events with me each year. When we are there, I let him be happy in a corner while I bubble out. What makes a good marriage to me isn't some heavy level of compatible interests...but a willingness to share, support, and grow together in one's differences. To get a little past me and my way or him and his way... and learn how to create an us and our way. And that you're both willing to put to work to protect and continue to develop that us-relationship.   

There are structural problems that can doom a marriage. I call these foundational cracks. One foundational crack may be manageable. But when there's more, it can be a difficult road as well. Again, most of these aren't tied to personality but interactions. Some of these include chronic lying or boundary pushing, abusive behaviors, or unresolved and severe personal issues (uncheck mental illness, trauma, etc). When these are left unchecked or unfixed, I would suggest contemplating divorce.  There's other interactive behaviors that can also doom a marriage. Gottman (a marriage researcher) labeled 4 big red flags in a marriage the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse because their persistent presence in a marriage usually spells the eventual dissolution of it. Note that these too are not based on personality but interaction patterns. I have seen some couples who can be very very different work it out and be very happy together. I've seen others who I see as fairly similar in most ways fall apart. Obviously I can't pry and see what sort of marriage patterns you really have going in your own. My work says, there's likely a whole story and needed perspective missing in this conversation. But I would say you're more likely to find goodness/happiness as you look to find what an US looks like....not just her or you, but you two together... When you can see clearly what you've done to add to the conflict and strife in the marriage and to clearly acknowledge it and ask what you can do to heal the "us"/help support her more.... and when there's a mutual desire to have an equally supportive relationship. 

 

Okay, time to do what I was actually supposed to do today. 

With luv,

BD

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I am told the opposite of love is not hate , but indifference. If one or both of the partners find that they could not care less or even could care less but not much less, about the other it is a  bad sign. I recently heard an interview of a famous comedian who relates that his wife , shortly after marriage, stopped all intimacy. After 11 years of this they finally divorced. Why it took him 11 years to figure out that she was completely indifferent to him I don't know. She wasn't indifferent to the $ 30,000 a month he was required to pay for child support even when he was making less than half that. There is the old saying ," A woman marries a man thinking that he will change, but he usually doesn't. A man marries a woman thinking she will never change, but she usually does "

Sorry, not too helpfully uplifting today. :vava:

Share this post


Link to post

Life decisions made in the grip of clinical depression might be made differently if the depression was resolved.  

When people are depressed, it’s common to blame the marriage.  I’d say, address the depression, then decide if the marriage is of value.  

Feelings are information...but they aren’t facts. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/26/2018 at 8:57 PM, MustardSeed said:

Life decisions made in the grip of clinical depression might be made differently if the depression was resolved.  

When people are depressed, it’s common to blame the marriage.  I’d say, address the depression, then decide if the marriage is of value.  

Feelings are information...but they aren’t facts. 

 

On 11/23/2018 at 10:59 AM, BlueDreams said:

There are structural problems that can doom a marriage. I call these foundational cracks. One foundational crack may be manageable. But when there's more, it can be a difficult road as well. Again, most of these aren't tied to personality but interactions. Some of these include chronic lying or boundary pushing, abusive behaviors, or unresolved and severe personal issues (uncheck mental illness, trauma, etc). When these are left unchecked or unfixed, I would suggest contemplating divorce.  There's other interactive behaviors that can also doom a marriage. Gottman (a marriage researcher) labeled 4 big red flags in a marriage the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse because their persistent presence in a marriage usually spells the eventual dissolution of it.

BlueDreams, thanks so much for taking the time for me, even if it meant getting temporarily distracted.  Heheh.  I know it might be unsettling to try to direct someone you haven't even met and who you don't know to what extent is expressing the truth, but I'll assure you that my situation definitely warrants asking for this type of help.  I felt empowered by your comments and assure you that your time expressing your thoughts was well spent.

My wife and I definitely do have a lot of the structural problems you mentioned, one of which happens to be the very "stonewalling" concept talked about in the four horses analogy.  

I don't know yet if we are going to need it to call it quits, but I will say that in the event that I do, the type of things you've been saying will help me have better rationale for it.

One last thing I wanted to mention was the touch part of my reason for starting this post is to talk about how I can make peace with the concept of Eternal Marriage, or a marriage being a covenant with God.  If what you're saying is true, though, it would mean that there are some people for whom the right choice is to split up.  Do you have any thoughts on how to make peace with the church treating marriage as a covenant regardless of the circumstances? As long as the church treats things this way, people will always be labeled as covenant breakers when they choose to go the direction of divorce.  Do you have any thoughts on how to compromise what is taught concerning Eternal Marriage with the reality that there are some people, even within those who marry in the temple, for whom things can simply cannot work out?

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...