Alcohol causes one in 20 deaths worldwide

[Nofear]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/21/5-of-all-deaths-due-to-alcohol-who-says

Nobody posted this so here it is. Sure, some people can drink "responsibly" but the overall burden to society from the normalization of the drug is non-trivial.

[Gray]

One word of wisdom endorses moderate drinking. The other forbids it entirely. Which word of wisdom is right?

[katherine the great]

My observation: Alcohol is a plague in our society. Unfortunately it will never go away...

[Tacenda]

My brother is still battling acoholism, he was recently married, and his wife is going through hell now. I wish she'd never married him. She had always loved him since high school and noticed over a year ago that he'd gone into rehab and she connected with him. But the rehab did nothing. He's drinking every day and homeless, and sits outside the bar. And the bartenders continually give him drinks. I'd bet he has a bar tab, because he's broke. I've called them before to tell them to stop serving him. I think I'll call again, since they refused last time. I'd give anything if alcohol didn't exist. And I say this when many in my family are social drinkers. I guess going through what I have with two brothers, it's made me wish it away. But understand how many can drink w/o any problems.

[poptart]

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

My brother is still battling acoholism, he was recently married, and his wife is going through hell now. I wish she'd never married him. She had always loved him since high school and noticed over a year ago that he'd gone into rehab and she connected with him. But the rehab did nothing. He's drinking every day and homeless, and sits outside the bar. And the bartenders continually give him drinks. I'd bet he has a bar tab, because he's broke. I've called them before to tell them to stop serving him. I think I'll call again, since they refused last time. I'd give anything if alcohol didn't exist. And I say this when many in my family are social drinkers. I guess going through what I have with two brothers, it's made me wish it away. But understand how many can drink w/o any problems.

As someone who had a violent drunk for a father as well as an uncle and grandfather who drank like fish, how would you go about solving it?  It's societal and genetics so fixing it is no easy task, best I can think of is 1920s style medical treatments like they had in Indiana. 

[The Nehor]

Bah, who wants to live forever anyways?

[Gray]

Apparently there are actually pharmaceutical treatments that are effective at treating alcoholism. They haven't been embraced because people still tend to think of it as a moral failing rather than a medical problem.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

Apparently there are actually pharmaceutical treatments that are effective at treating alcoholism. They haven't been embraced because people still tend to think of it as a moral failing rather than a medical problem.

Yep, they are very popular in Europe. The usual result is that someone recovers and can even socially drink again with a minimal chance of relapse.

For some reason we are sticking to the 12 Step program which has at most a 10% success rate. It may have been a good treatment when we had no other real options but why are we still married to it?

[poptart]

Rehab clinics are always an option, thing is the private ones are very, very expensive and not all insurance companies pay for it.  The fund I worked for that was insured by Primera did for some, used to get people who put their kids through them quite a bit. 
FYI, any input I can get on this would be appreciated, just did a paper for my Human growth and development, about half of it was the affects of alcoholism on families, esp. the teratogen aspect of it.  I'll probably end up working in some not so nice place in the not too distant future, I may be working in an inner city hospital in a few months so i'll be seeing all kinds of stuff like this....

2 hours ago, Gray said:

Apparently there are actually pharmaceutical treatments that are effective at treating alcoholism. They haven't been embraced because people still tend to think of it as a moral failing rather than a medical problem.

Believe it or not, that's changing mostly because people are seeing the financial impact and people are trying to cut costs.  It's actually cheaper to try fixing things like alcoholism in children vs. treating broken adults with too much pride. 

For those of you with kids, google ACEs, adverse childhood experiences.  They're finding out more and more the affects that stuff has on future generations.  Heard this from an LDS friend of mine, the sins of the father stay in the family for 7 generations, alcoholism is a scary one.  There's a good Ted talk on this too, saw this in class yesterday, scared half the people there.

 

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, poptart said:

Rehab clinics are always an option, thing is the private ones are very, very expensive and not all insurance companies pay for it.  The fund I worked for that was insured by Primera did for some, used to get people who put their kids through them quite a bit. 
FYI, any input I can get on this would be appreciated, just did a paper for my Human growth and development, about half of it was the affects of alcoholism on families, esp. the teratogen aspect of it.  I'll probably end up working in some not so nice place in the not too distant future, I may be working in an inner city hospital in a few months so i'll be seeing all kinds of stuff like this....

Believe it or not, that's changing mostly because people are seeing the financial impact and people are trying to cut costs.  It's actually cheaper to try fixing things like alcoholism in children vs. treating broken adults with too much pride. 

For those of you with kids, google ACEs, adverse childhood experiences.  They're finding out more and more the affects that stuff has on future generations.  Heard this from an LDS friend of mine, the sins of the father stay in the family for 7 generations, alcoholism is a scary one.  There's a good Ted talk on this too, saw this in class yesterday, scared half the people there.

 

Thanks for this, I'm going to share on FB and hope my brother will somehow see it! I admire you so much, and I think with your background, you will be so helpful to those that are going through having a parent/parents as alcoholics. 

[MorningStar]

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 7:03 PM, Tacenda said:

My brother is still battling acoholism, he was recently married, and his wife is going through hell now. I wish she'd never married him. She had always loved him since high school and noticed over a year ago that he'd gone into rehab and she connected with him. But the rehab did nothing. He's drinking every day and homeless, and sits outside the bar. And the bartenders continually give him drinks. I'd bet he has a bar tab, because he's broke. I've called them before to tell them to stop serving him. I think I'll call again, since they refused last time. I'd give anything if alcohol didn't exist. And I say this when many in my family are social drinkers. I guess going through what I have with two brothers, it's made me wish it away. But understand how many can drink w/o any problems.

That's how my grandpa passed away. A bartender gave him free drinks and he went into a coma. It was very frustrating because the family always made sure to never give him money for that reason. I'm so sorry your brother is struggling. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by MorningStar

[Kenngo1969]

Not everyone who doesn't obey the Word of Wisdom is an irresolute drunkard or a crazed drug addict, but no one who does obey it is.

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, MorningStar said:

That's how my grandpa passed away. A bartender gave him free drinks and he went into a coma. It was very frustrating because the family always made sure to never give him money for that reason. I'm so sorry your brother is struggling. 

Thank you Morningstar! Sorry about your grandpa, it's a horrible way to die. My brother has horrible liver disease, so that may be what happens to him, sadly.

[JLHPROF]

On 9/26/2018 at 12:26 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

Not everyone who doesn't obey the Word of Wisdom is an irresolute drunkard or a crazed drug addict

True.

Some of the men who didn't follow the Word of Wisdom principles as we do today in the Church are pretty great guys.

I mean you have men like Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, J. Golden Kimball, and this one guy named Jesus.

None of these kept the principles of the WofW and somehow they came through unscathed.  

[Tacenda]

On 9/25/2018 at 10:16 AM, The Nehor said:

Yep, they are very popular in Europe. The usual result is that someone recovers and can even socially drink again with a minimal chance of relapse.

For some reason we are sticking to the 12 Step program which has at most a 10% success rate. It may have been a good treatment when we had no other real options but why are we still married to it?

Read this: https://www.marijuanabreak.com/cbd-for-alcoholism  I agree with you Nehor, about 12 step or AA. It's not working with my brother, also I looked up the medications you referred to in your post, but fear they are far more dangerous than CBD oil. I'm desperately trying to get my brother to try the oil. Smoking marijuana isn't recommended in this article. It's cannabidiol  that is needed.

Everyone with an alcohol problem or who know someone that has it should read this, to heck with the meds that have horrific side affects. But great for the ones it helped I guess. I was very interested in looking for medications but then decided to go back to my go-to treatment after reading some bad side affects, especially one called Baclofen. Too bad the majority on here or elsewhere are afraid to try CBD/THC or just the CBD oil. But most meds from a pharmacy are too scary, IMO. Big pharma know this, they know the benefits of CBD or THC, and the government as well. But the almighty dollar stands supreme. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Read this: https://www.marijuanabreak.com/cbd-for-alcoholism  I agree with you Nehor, about 12 step or AA. It's not working with my brother, also I looked up the medications you referred to in your post, but fear they are far more dangerous than CBD oil. I'm desperately trying to get my brother to try the oil. Smoking marijuana isn't recommended in this article. It's cannabidiol  that is needed.

Everyone with an alcohol problem or who know someone that has it should read this, to heck with the meds that have horrific side affects. But great for the ones it helped I guess. I was very interested in looking for medications but then decided to go back to my go-to treatment after reading some bad side affects, especially one called Baclofen. Too bad the majority on here or elsewhere are afraid to try CBD/THC or just the CBD oil. But most meds from a pharmacy are too scary, IMO. Big pharma know this, they know the benefits of CBD or THC, and the government as well. But the almighty dollar stands supreme. 

I'd be a little dubious about replacing withdrawal meds with this. Plus the site is incredibly pro-marijuana so I would want to see the studies. One thing I would tell anyone is that if you are alcoholic and your intake is at dangerous levels (not all alcoholics are at those levels) you should work with a doctor or even a rehab clinic. Withdrawal can literally kill you.

[poptart]

13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Read this: https://www.marijuanabreak.com/cbd-for-alcoholism  I agree with you Nehor, about 12 step or AA. It's not working with my brother, also I looked up the medications you referred to in your post, but fear they are far more dangerous than CBD oil. I'm desperately trying to get my brother to try the oil. Smoking marijuana isn't recommended in this article. It's cannabidiol  that is needed.

Everyone with an alcohol problem or who know someone that has it should read this, to heck with the meds that have horrific side affects. But great for the ones it helped I guess. I was very interested in looking for medications but then decided to go back to my go-to treatment after reading some bad side affects, especially one called Baclofen. Too bad the majority on here or elsewhere are afraid to try CBD/THC or just the CBD oil. But most meds from a pharmacy are too scary, IMO. Big pharma know this, they know the benefits of CBD or THC, and the government as well. But the almighty dollar stands supreme. 

If the Prophet gets the green light for marijuana as well as pushing for it's legalization let me know, that will be the day I will say the LDS gospel is true.  Bonus points if he starts a partnership with the Native American Church. 

Seriously though, I'm all for this.  Addicts are addicts, if they don't get hooked on one thing they'll get hooked on something else.  Here in CO they have cannabis nurses now, don't think there are a whole lot of em, considering marijuana is still illegal at the federal level not sure how many would want to risk their license.  Yet another reason to immigrate to Canada....

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

If the Prophet gets the green light for marijuana as well as pushing for it's legalization let me know, that will be the day I will say the LDS gospel is true.  Bonus points if he starts a partnership with the Native American Church. 

Seriously though, I'm all for this.  Addicts are addicts, if they don't get hooked on one thing they'll get hooked on something else.  Here in CO they have cannabis nurses now, don't think there are a whole lot of em, considering marijuana is still illegal at the federal level not sure how many would want to risk their license.  Yet another reason to immigrate to Canada....

I took my brother some CBD/THC oil last night. He's been homeless and sleeping outside the bar in his car. His wife of only a few months, won't let him in her home if he's been drinking. Well, he came home and is trying to detox again, this morning he told me he slept better and feels better after using the oil. Praying he won't quit taking it. I swear by it along with thousands of others. Did you hear the church is trying to come up with another prop to counteract the Prop 2 on the ballot? Or are you in Utah, maybe not. They are trying to put another one on there. We'll have to see how this all plays out.  

[Robert F. Smith]

On 9/24/2018 at 4:25 PM, Nofear said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/21/5-of-all-deaths-due-to-alcohol-who-says

Nobody posted this so here it is. Sure, some people can drink "responsibly" but the overall burden to society from the normalization of the drug is non-trivial.

While that is certainly true, one must face the reality that people worldwide love their recreational drugs.  And while alcohol is the most dangerous of all those recreational drugs (President's Commission on Drug Abuse), it does no good to outlaw its use.  We tried Prohibition, and that created more problems than the abuse of alcohol.  So we settled on controlled access, along with taxation to pay for the administrative and health costs.  The late William F. Buckley advised us to do the same with all other recreational drugs, but wusses rejected the idea.  So all of society has to suffer with a "monkey" on its back, and the War on Drugs has been a total failure.

[Nofear]

I'm not advocating prohibition. I do think it a good idea in theory but am far from certain that our society would bear it. But the trope that prohibition did more harm than good is not entirely settled. You can find quite a few studies that argue either way. One thing that we do know pretty clearly is that prohibition was motivated at least in part by the fairly rampant abuse in families that was exacerbated by alcohol use. People didn't argue for it just for the heck of it. Certainly it wasn't voted for willy-nilly.  After and during prohibition the sway of the demon of abuse on society was reduced and in that sense prohibition was a partial success.

[poptart]

On 10/5/2018 at 7:15 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

While that is certainly true, one must face the reality that people worldwide love their recreational drugs.  And while alcohol is the most dangerous of all those recreational drugs (President's Commission on Drug Abuse), it does no good to outlaw its use.  We tried Prohibition, and that created more problems than the abuse of alcohol.  So we settled on controlled access, along with taxation to pay for the administrative and health costs.  The late William F. Buckley advised us to do the same with all other recreational drugs, but wusses rejected the idea.  So all of society has to suffer with a "monkey" on its back, and the War on Drugs has been a total failure.

Always been a believer that if society cared more for eachother a lot of this would go away.  Alcoholism/drug addiction is a wonderful way to temporarily mask a problem, thing is it's just that temporary.  Look at a good chunk of the homeless population, many are hard core drug addicts, give them a shot at life, a purpose and a community of some kind and a lot of that stuff can work itself out.  DI does a good job with a lot of that, they took people no one would raise a finger for.  Shame you can only work there a year.

[Nofear]

A bit of whimsy. Alcohol isn't just a human issue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/10/04/drunk-birds-are-causing-havoc-in-a-minnesota-town-police-say-theyll-sober-up-soon/

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Nofear said:

A bit of whimsy. Alcohol isn't just a human issue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/10/04/drunk-birds-are-causing-havoc-in-a-minnesota-town-police-say-theyll-sober-up-soon/

Yes, and the same thing has happened with bears who happened on a train derailment in which several cars loaded with grain crashed, got wet and fermented.  The bears showed up for happy hour and got quite drunk.

[strappinglad]

I understand that elephants sometimes eat fruit which has fermented and can get quite pushy and mean, deadly even.

Side note: I wonder if Jesus kept the dietary laws of the day? Wine wasn't on the prohibited list , but pork was. He was liberal when it came to some activities on the Sabbath. Did He sneak a ham sandwich from time to time? I need to know so that I can justify my WOW practices.

[The Nehor]

On 10/8/2018 at 7:00 PM, strappinglad said:

I understand that elephants sometimes eat fruit which has fermented and can get quite pushy and mean, deadly even.

Side note: I wonder if Jesus kept the dietary laws of the day? Wine wasn't on the prohibited list , but pork was. He was liberal when it came to some activities on the Sabbath. Did He sneak a ham sandwich from time to time? I need to know so that I can justify my WOW practices.

His opinion on ham can be discerned from where he sent the legion of unclean spirits.