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Sam Young is Excommunicated

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1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

What do you think should happen if someone asks you a sexual question?

 

In the early 1980s, my father-in-law and I were talking about this topic. He told me if any leader ever asked me about the sexual relationship between my wife and me I should tell them it is none of his business. At the time he was serving in a stake presidency in Utah. 

I think his advice was accurate and spot on. What I continue to be shocked is that so many people play a role of overwhelming naivety where they are forced, chained to the chair at all ages, with a church leader spouting sexually invasive questions to individuals who have never heard of sex. Really people?!?  Do you really think we are all so stupid as to think your child is ignorant of all sexual matters?  Frankly, it disgusts me that individuals think humans are all so stupid that we would believe anything you say as the truth.  

I am grateful for the comments early in the thread that suggested that you get off your backside and teach your children to say no - to anyone - if they are uncomfortable.  You do that and this entire thread is a no go, fini, the end. Instead, we have individual yapping about, "I would never have my child alone with the bishop in an interview."   Wake the heck up!  If your child is 11 years old he already knows more about sex than you do. These kids not only deal with heterosexual sex but every form of sex that two humans could possibly engage in whether it be gay, trans, twisted, etc. You name it they have heard about it. 

And, yes, I really do get steamed with stupidity. 

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34 minutes ago, smac97 said:

"Removal" suggests that these questions are in place somewhere.  In a list of questions.  So where?

Thanks,

-Smac

I think that's the problem.  I grew up with Bishops that never asked me anything that was explicit or made me uncomfortable, so I can't understand the problem.  But if you read the reports of what people have been asked in Bishops interviews, it is obvious there is a high degree of latitude and some Bishops go into detail in ways that maybe they shouldn't.  

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37 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

In the early 1980s, my father-in-law and I were talking about this topic. He told me if any leader ever asked me about the sexual relationship between my wife and me I should tell them it is none of his business. At the time he was serving in a stake presidency in Utah. 

I think his advice was accurate and spot on. What I continue to be shocked is that so many people play a role of overwhelming naivety where they are forced, chained to the chair at all ages, with a church leader spouting sexually invasive questions to individuals who have never heard of sex. Really people?!?  Do you really think we are all so stupid as to think your child is ignorant of all sexual matters?  Frankly, it disgusts me that individuals think humans are all so stupid that we would believe anything you say as the truth.  

I am grateful for the comments early in the thread that suggested that you get off your backside and teach your children to say no - to anyone - if they are uncomfortable.  You do that and this entire thread is a no go, fini, the end. Instead, we have individual yapping about, "I would never have my child alone with the bishop in an interview."   Wake the heck up!  If your child is 11 years old he already knows more about sex than you do. These kids not only deal with heterosexual sex but every form of sex that two humans could possibly engage in whether it be gay, trans, twisted, etc. You name it they have heard about it. 

And, yes, I really do get steamed with stupidity. 

I got steamed right now! You have not read the letters of hundreds that say the questions caused difficulty in their lives. Maybe you think the bishop or stake president or counselor doesn't know what the heck they're doing asking questions like that but there are very studious LDS that take every thing from the mouth of a leader in authority to be right or inspired. Get real Storm, you aren't aware of it? There are some that still haven't got over the guilt of telling their bishop they masturbated. Or some that think it their fault that someone abused them, because believe it or not some bishops treated them as if they did have a part in it. There are many scenarios like this, oh, wait I'll add yet another. Youth and even children asked about pornography or masturbation and that led them to start doing things they wouldn't have unless asked about something. They didn't know what masturbation meant and tried it. This was someone's experience and it lead them down a road of horrific guilt that altered their life from then on. Don't believe it, well then you are sadly lacking in empathy and knowledge that this can be a thing. You think these children being taught all about sex etc. is going to happen in all households, I doubt it will ever happen. Most parents until Sam probably didn't know that some insane questions have been asked. And Storm, you probably want to put your head in the sand and not read the letters, because in your mind most likely, you think people have made them up because they are against the church. Well, keep sticking your head in the sand and don't read them, haha, because the church can do no wrong. ETA: Isn't it significant that in the 80's a member of a sake presidency told you not to answer such personal questions? Possibly a problem that occurs in the bishop's office perhaps?

Edited by Tacenda

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24 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I think that's the problem.  I grew up with Bishops that never asked me anything that was explicit or made me uncomfortable, so I can't understand the problem.  But if you read the reports of what people have been asked in Bishops interviews, it is obvious there is a high degree of latitude and some Bishops go into detail in ways that maybe they shouldn't.  

Yea I had the same experience as you, which was none.  Even with the list of experiences he has reported  from others (Which I believe are exagerated to make them look worse than they were),
the percentage of the few that went bad out of the millions of interviews that have been done in the past 100 years has got to be very small. It is certainly not a rampant problem in the church as he and others claim.
If anyone has read his past blogs it is obvious he was on his way out of the church anyway.

 

Edited by JAHS
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53 minutes ago, Exiled said:

No, but he wanted to remain.

Not by his words and actions, at least as reported here. 

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5 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Yea I had the same experience as you, which was none.  Even with the list of experiences he has reported  from others (Which I believe are exagerated to make them look worse than they were),
the percentage of the few that went bad out of the millions of interviews that have been done in the past 10 years has got to be very small. It is certainly not a rampant problem in the church as he and others claim.
If anyone has read his past blogs it is obvious he was on his way out of the church anyway.

 

I do wonder if Sam was serious about his membership would he possibly went and did it differently. But maybe he thought nothing happens unless you make some noise, and then he found things in the church that hurt his belief in the church. But I feel he probably is having some difficulty being ex'd, anyone would if they had onced served as a bishop, and lived active and believing in the church.

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13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

ETA: Isn't it significant that in the 80's a member of a stake presidency told you not to answer such personal questions?

"He told me IF any leader ever asked me about the sexual relationship between my wife and me I should tell them it is none of his business."

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2 Nephi 26:29 Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world.

 

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1 hour ago, Exiled said:

No, but he wanted to remain.

And there are ways for him to return.

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1 hour ago, Exiled said:

No, but he wanted to remain.

If that was true, he would do what he needed to go remain. Namely repent and humble himself and begin fulfilling his priesthood duties with a meek heart

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4 minutes ago, CMZ said:

And there are ways for him to return.

And respectively, you would know. :)

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21 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Not by his words and actions, at least as reported here. 

I think he wanted to stay inside and have the interview policy change.  I think that was the essence of what he was doing. If the church leadership would have spoken with him about his issues and made some changes, I am pretty sure he would have loved to have remained. However, they are the authority and they didn't want to.

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2 hours ago, ttribe said:

Are you denying that no one, ever, has been asked specifically about masturbation, for example?

Is there anything wrong with asking about it?

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2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

This question alone depends on maturity.  Asking an 11 or 12 year old is questionable...IMO.  The thing is ....it is none of your business.  All other requirements may be adhered to...but questions like this belong to parents/children at home..and between God and an individual.

I picture a young girl who has heard about chastity...but not fully understanding it.  Would it be okay for the  Bishop to explain that???  My daughter came home from her primary interview into MIA asking what masturbation was.

You have your opinion. I personally think 12 years old is a bit late to start taking about chastity.

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3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Sam's first problem is the sin of pride.  He decided for himself that the current policy is wrong (that part is fine) and then proceeded to demand change so that the Church would be in compliance in how he thinks things should be.  It is the same thing that Kate Kelly had.  She decided that women should have the priesthood and then proceeded to push for change without any regard to others and how they feel toward the issue.  Even though 90% of the women in the church had no desire for the priesthood, she was going to do whatever it took to force it down everyone throat.  These type of people need to go away.  If people want change, then go through the normal process and accept that change, if it does come might take a while.  These people are grandstanding and want change NOW.  Sorry but that his not how things work.

Not sure this is always true.

Jesus was vocal in his opposition to the church at the time. Alma the elder raised trouble among the priests. Martin Luther agitated the church and Mormons praise him as laying the groundwork for the restoration.  There are other great reformers who did a lot of good without using proper, established channels within an organization.

We can certainly discuss how effective Sam Young’s drive for change will or will not be, but to objectively say that these people need to go away seems short-sighted.

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7 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Not unexpected. I hope he repents and returns to faithfulness.

just goes to show you what pride can do to you 

 

You are his judge now?  None of us know what is in his heart.  

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9 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

You are his judge now?  None of us know what is in his heart.  

The needle on my irony meter just hit the red zone.

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6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Agree, but some older adults have felt the brunt of confessing as well. But I do see that for others it's a way to get a feeling of guilt off their chests. Every situation is unique I guess.

Confession is one of the solid rock foundations of 12-Step recovery programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous. 

For a detailed explanation see https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_step5.pdf

Whether you're working the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA)Narcotics Anonymous (NA)Al-Anon, or any other program, the most difficult of all the steps is probably Step 5. This is the one that asks us to admit "our wrongs" and to do so in front of our higher power and another person.

....Once you have had the integrity to become honest with God, then becoming honest with yourself and another human being becomes much easier. Perhaps more than any other step in the process, Step 5 provides the chance to begin "growing up" spiritually. It gives the opportunity to unload the burdens of the past and be done with them.”  https://www.verywellmind.com/a-study-of-step-5-67253

Edited by Bernard Gui
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1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

If that was true, he would do what he needed to go remain. Namely repent and humble himself and begin fulfilling his priesthood duties with a meek heart

Right.  He wanted to remain but only on his terms.  His terms is the Church MUST change to fit his desires and until that happens, he will not stop.   I have not seen on policy in the Church that requires bishops to ask detailed questions about sex.  I personally have never had any questions asked of me of any bishop that was inappropriate.  If a bishop does this, I suppose they do this on their own but its not the rule in the Church.  If anything he probably is taking to examples that are exceptional and making it those examples as the norm.

Edited by carbon dioxide
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30 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

You are his judge now?  None of us know what is in his heart.  

Christ said that which comes out a man comes from his heart. His pride is all over his words and actions. In his his own words, He says he is proud of what he is doing and losing his membership.

Christ has called us to be humble, meek, submissive. He asks us to sustain those He calls. 

He shows us the way to judge. And he gave us the key to recognize a heart heading toward apostasy.

if you don't know what is in his heart, ask the Lord. He gives us the gift to discern hearts

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9 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Right.  He wanted to remain but only on his terms.  His terms is the Church MUST change to fit his desires and until that happens, he will not stop.   I have not seen on policy in the Church that requires bishops to ask detailed questions about sex.  I personally have never had any questions asked of me of any bishop that was inappropriate.  If a bishop does this, I suppose they do this on their own but its not the rule in the Church.  If anything he probably is taking to examples that are exceptional and making it those examples as the norm.

When I served as bishop in the early 80s some leaders were going beyond what was in the recommend questions into privacy areas, but instructions came out saying to knock it off. 

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4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Well, that is where it all begins. The how, the where, the when, the minute details...according to several witnesses. But not all of course.

Why is a Bishop asking anything sexually based to a minor?  I wonder why leaders are digging into the details?  I know I've experienced leaders digging into really significant details.  Worse yet, missionaries are asking prospective members detailed sexual questions.  

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4 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

 I don't believe that for a second.

So what's Sam's goal?  What's the end game?

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4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What would you think should happen?

Definitely do not ask for details. 

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