Sam Young is Excommunicated

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I can't think of anyone who is happy at an excommunication.

Thanks,

-Smac

Sometimes I might be.  Depends on the situation.  If a person really wants to be excommunicated, then I am happy for them when they achieve their goal. 

[smac97]

23 minutes ago, california boy said:

It's "the thinking has been done" nuclear option that the church always has when someone disagrees publically with church leaders.

What a lazy cheap shot.

-Smac

[smac97]

16 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Not feeling sorry for him at all.  He decided that his views were so important that everyone should accept and comply with his views by demanding change that he got kicked out.  Who is next on deck who think of themselves as so important that the Church should change to conform to what they believe the Church should do?

Dunno.  But that he actively sought excommunication does not mean we can't feel sorry for him.  He has lost a lot, even if he doesn't appreciate it right now.

Thanks,

-Smac

[carbon dioxide]

31 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Sam made sure to let the audience know that he is pressing forward with the cause.  He plans to appeal his excommunication.  He also made a few points and encouraged youth and parents of youth, in certain states, to report Bishops that ask questions about sexual topics.  I guess an investigation is required in these states, I don't know the details.  He also asked reporters to probe Mormon politicians that were Bishops to see if they asked sexually based questions in interviews.  Also, he announcing having interviews recorded between youth and Bishops discussing sexually based questions.  Sam has to check each state's laws to see if he can release the interview(s).  I think the Church's hand is forced and the Church will remove these questions in the very near future.

Actually this only makes things harder to change.  Any change that could be done has to be distant so that no connection could be made to Sam Young.  The Church simply can't encourage more self righteous behavior of members.

[lostindc]

8 minutes ago, JAHS said:

The policy of conducting interviews with the youth and asking them if they live the law of chastity. He doesn't like the way some Bishops are conducting the interviews. 

What are the questions surrounding the Law of Chastity?  

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Sometimes I might be.  Depends on the situation.  If a person really wants to be excommunicated, then I am happy for them when they achieve their goal. 

There’s no good reason to be haappy someone would have excommunication as his goal in the first place, let alone that he would “achieve” it. 

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Actually this only makes things harder to change.  Any change that could be done has to be distant so that no connection could be made to Sam Young.  The Church simply can't encourage more self righteous behavior of members.

Well if the church distants itself from Sam and uses this as an excuse not to make needed changes, well that's not a good reflection on the church. And lame for them if true.

[lostindc]

5 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Actually this only makes things harder to change.  Any change that could be done has to be distant so that no connection could be made to Sam Young.  The Church simply can't encourage more self righteous behavior of members.

So if there's an issue, the Church would rather the issue continue, then to admit it's wrong direction because the Church doesn't want "more self righteous behavior of members?"  That doesn't sound healthy.  What would Jesus do?

[JAHS]

7 minutes ago, lostindc said:

What are the questions surrounding the Law of Chastity?  

Do you live the law of chastity?  That's it.

[lostindc]

1 minute ago, JAHS said:

Do you live the law of chastity?  That's it.

What happens if someone interviewed says "no."

[Duncan]

1 minute ago, lostindc said:

So if there's an issue, the Church would rather the issue continue, then to admit it's wrong direction because the Church doesn't want "more self righteous behavior of members?"  That doesn't sound healthy.  What would Jesus do?

the Church changed, as per the directions given by the leadership about interviews so it isn't allowing the issue to continue, but it wasn't good enough for Young. WWJD, he isn't allowing the issue to continue as per the directions his leadership have given the Church. "Protect the Children" sounds catchy but it isn't accurate, no 5 year old kids are getting interview for anything.

[Exiled]

I don't think it is surprising Sam Young was excommunicated. The brethren take the position that they are the authority and so dissenters must be silenced or removed.

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, CMZ said:

If there happens to be anyone jumping up and down for joy then they don't see the situation the way God sees it. But there are always going to be people in the Church with less understanding than they should have, and there are always going to be people with an ax to grind who see the people who have less understanding than they should have as the best possible representation of the entire Church and then they turn those people into their straw man to attack.

I would suppose the only people happy about this are those who hate the Church and think they can use this to attack us

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, lostindc said:

What happens if someone interviewed says "no."

Well, that is where it all begins. The how, the where, the when, the minute details...according to several witnesses. But not all of course.

[pogi]

2 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Okay, let me explain further. I do not believe that any priest or bishop is in a position to judge the worthiness of my child. 

Christ gave authority to his disciples to be judges in Israel, to judge sin and to proclaim forgiveness or even retention of sin.

2 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Private confession to a male authority figure is a later Catholic practice that had no place in the communities that tried to follow Jesus's teachings, and had no place in Judaism. You confessed to the person you hurt and tried to put it right with them. Criminal matters were tried in the courts.

 

priests were intermediaries who performed sacrifice for confessed sins.

Here’s a more thorough explanation from our Catholic friends;

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-confession-in-scripture

[JAHS]

2 minutes ago, lostindc said:

What happens if someone interviewed says "no."

The Bishop might ask them if they would like to talk about their answer,  Or he might tell the person to talk it over with their parents.
Sam Young has agreed that the question about living the law of chastity should be asked in the interview.

[Avatar4321]

40 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I believe Sam and others believe they're exposing many accounts of misconduct during worthiness interviews, and therefore, a change in methods is required.  Sharing these stories feels like whistle blowing actions to me.  I guess we can toy with the definition of whistleblower to fit a person's needs.

 I don't believe that for a second.

[Duncan]

Just now, Exiled said:

I don't think it is surprising Sam Young was excommunicated. The brethren take the position that they are the authority and so dissenters must be silenced or removed.

not silenced but removed from the records, they can still attend Church if they choose to do so. I bet if someone had a sign up that read , "Sam is a Sham" and followed Sam Young everywhere while he was in SLC, vocally opposing him while he spoke on various media platforms and followed him back to Houston, his followers would have something to say about that person

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, lostindc said:

What happens if someone interviewed says "no."

What would you think should happen?

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Duncan said:

not silenced but removed from the records, they can still attend Church if they choose to do so. I bet if someone had a sign up that read , "Sam is a Sham" and followed Sam Young everywhere while he was in SLC, vocally opposing him while he spoke on various media platforms and followed him back to Houston, his followers would have something to say about that person

Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs. They were a Sixties band. 

[california boy]

24 minutes ago, smac97 said:

What a lazy cheap shot.

-Smac

Yet that appears what he was excommunicated for, having a different opinion than the church leaders and publically sharing that opinion.

[Avatar4321]

23 minutes ago, lostindc said:

What are the questions surrounding the Law of Chastity?  

It's literally:

"Do you keep the law of chastity? "

 

 

[bluebell]

17 minutes ago, Exiled said:

I don't think it is surprising Sam Young was excommunicated. The brethren take the position that they are the authority and so dissenters must be silenced or removed.

This isn't true (i'm not sure if you chose to misrepresent church leaders or if it's accidental, but either way).

The Brethren take the position that they are called of God and that Christ has directed them to remove anyone from His flock that is guilty of serious sin (such as apostasy) if they refuse to repent.  People can agree with that or disagree with it, but they should have the integrity to describe the Brethren's position accurately, if they are going to describe it at all.

[Avatar4321]

Quote

“I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.” - Joseph Smith

it's amazing how that is always the case

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Okay, let me explain further. I do not believe that any priest or bishop is in a position to judge the worthiness of my child. Private confession to a male authority figure is a later Catholic practice that had no place in the communities that tried to follow Jesus's teachings, and had no place in Judaism. You confessed to the person you hurt and tried to put it right with them. Criminal matters were tried in the courts.

I do not believe that Jesus agrees with you, at all.  

And neither do the apostles and prophets, which makes me wonder, what exactly do you want them to do?  It's not reasonable to expect our leaders to behave in a way that they don't agree with or that they don't believe is right.