Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lostindc

Sam Young is Excommunicated

Recommended Posts

Sam Young is excommunicated.  Any thoughts from this board?

Share this post


Link to post

I think everybody is too busy jumping up and down for joy.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Jeanne said:

I think everybody is too busy jumping up and down for joy.

What did you dislike most about Sam and the movement he's involved in?

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not surprised. I am disappointed. My son said.. *Mum, you should be pleased.  This makes the church look really bad, and if they realise how bad they look, they might change.*

I told him I wasn't so hopeful of any change.  There are no checks and balances in the organisation. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Abulafia said:

I'm not surprised. I am disappointed. My son said.. *Mum, you should be pleased.  This makes the church look really bad, and if they realise how bad they look, they might change.*

I told him I wasn't so hopeful of any change.  There are no checks and balances in the organisation. 

The immediate feedback matches your disappointment.  I feel like people are expressing sadness.  I am interested to read Jeanne's perspective of joy over the situation.  I always believe other viewpoints can hold validity and perhaps change our own beliefs.

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, SteveO said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseretnews.com/article/900030038/heres-why-a-former-mormon-bishop-faces-discipline-from-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints.amp

“During the strike he also characterized the church's position as "insane," called it "the most extreme, unsafe church in America," said "I would not join the church today" and encouraged others not to join.”

I’m sure as brother Sam holds more press conferences, we’ll find out that it really has nothing to do with his concern for the children.

 

 

Ok got it. The hunger strike guy.

It's hard to know one dissenter from the other without a program. ;)

If that is true he was asking for it.

 

Edited by mfbukowski

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Who is Sam Young and why should we care?

I don't know why you should care, because I don't know what's in your head.  It depends on what you believe deserves attention.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Ok got it.

It's hard to know one dissenter from the other without a program. ;)

 

I am not sure I understand, can you explain this post more?  

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, lostindc said:

Sam Young is excommunicated.  Any thoughts from this board?

I always seem to be a day late and a dollar short. Who is Sam Young, and what did he do? 

Share this post


Link to post
54 minutes ago, lostindc said:

What did you dislike most about Sam and the movement he's involved in?

I was being sarcastic....I am not dancing!😋  I support Sam.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, lostindc said:

Sam Young is excommunicated.  Any thoughts from this board?

Not unexpected. I hope he repents and returns to faithfulness.

just goes to show you what pride can do to you 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

BlueDreams, I wouldn't want to subject my son to one and one interviews with a male leader who is unvetted and untrained. Particularly at a young age. At 18...it's his choice.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I always seem to be a day late and a dollar short. Who is Sam Young, and what did he do? 

Check out the hunger strike thread

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

I haven't weighed in on this on this board, I don't think. But I'm not surprised that he was. To be clear, I don't wish any ill-will toward Sam Young and hope he finds his way back to full membership or finds answers and truth/valuable perspectives while excommunicated. He seems like a genuine man (although I haven't looked too far into a lot of his work/perspectives). I also think wanting a safer environment for children isn't inherently wrong of Sam either. 

How he went about it and some of his assumptions are my problem. I think Sam was wrong that the best way was to have policies that meant bishops couldn't talk to youth about sensitive topics around sex. Just as there is the possibility for it to go wrong, I've also seen cases where it's gone very right and the voice of a leader was the first that assuaged the person of shame. Obviously I would want for the latter to be the case more often, but that takes a more nuanced and lengthy process than what Sam proposed. To me his options were replacing one problem with another. I'm not a fan of his solutions. If he was just proposing a solution, though, that's fine. But that's not all he did. 

He then went, found grandiose ways to call attention to his perspective, and actively discouraged others from joining the church because they were "putting kids in danger" by his perspective. That, to me, is where he crossed a line that could lead to excommunication. That children are somehow more in danger at church than when they are with family, acquaintances, school, etc is ridiculous...or at the very least unfounded by empirical data. To promote this as inherent truth and be unwilling to take in other opposing perspectives and respect the stewardship of apostles/other leaders in making overarching policies for the church, to me, is hubris. He placed himself into a position that the church must follow his perspective, beliefs, and vision for the church. And even if I 100% agreed with him....that's a problem.

 

With luv,

BD

Well said. There is nothing in the way things are done that automatically makes things go wrong. Things only go wrong if an individual adult leader puts their own unwarranted spin on things. But, yes, others will take a minority of individuals behaving poorly as some sort of inherent fault in the Church ("There's a rotten apple in the barrel; therefore all other apples in the barrel and the barrel itself are rotten."). I had whatever handful of interviews I did while a youth and nothing inappropriate was ever done or said by any of the adults I dealt with. This doesn't mean problems don't occur and, yes, when problems arise they should be dealt with, but there's no inherent flaw embedded into the system as it is. "Training and vetting" I suppose could help and we shouldn't turn down anything that might help, but "training and vetting" would only be another layer that would have to be unfortunately added because of a few rotten apples spoiling the barrel.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Who is Sam Young, and what did he do? 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
45 minutes ago, Abulafia said:

BlueDreams, I wouldn't want to subject my son to one and one interviews with a male leader who is unvetted and untrained. Particularly at a young age. At 18...it's his choice.

In which case, your welcome to also attend yourself as well, or ask someone else to be there as well.  

Speaking big pictures as well, I would also encourage you to train your child to know what is appropriate when & where & why, and what to if/when a line is crossed (this goes for anywhere with anyone). 

Parents have rights and responsibilities that way.   BE there and TEACH your children protective things.

What bothers me about Sam Young and similar proponents I've seen in other venues is they skip over this critical piece and instead depend solely on a "legal system" to "protect" children.   

And again, it wasn't Sam's opinions on that matter which were the cause of his downfall or excommunication.  

Edited by Jane_Doe
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

And the current changes in policy allow him not to be. I would personally be okay if my child did if they wanted to. But after I explain what to expect, what questions the bishop should ask and his stewardship...as well as what he/she should first talk to me/his father first considering our stewardship is primary over our child. There is flexibility and capacity for what you want and how you approach it and what I want and how I approach it, to both equally happen in the current circumstance.

But as I mentioned, even if I did 100% agree with Sam (I don't), it doesn't change the approach that he took which included actively and publicly dissuading people with children to not join the church because it's the "most extreme and unsafe" church in America for families. His actions  made it either that you're for his views or against child safety. Which is a blatantly false dichotomy.

 

With luv,

BD  

Okay, let me explain further. I do not believe that any priest or bishop is in a position to judge the worthiness of my child. Private confession to a male authority figure is a later Catholic practice that had no place in the communities that tried to follow Jesus's teachings, and had no place in Judaism. You confessed to the person you hurt and tried to put it right with them. Criminal matters were tried in the courts.

Edited by Abulafia
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...