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Mormon Leaks document on handling Child Abuse


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4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Not necessarily so, there could be another aspect the Church promotes that is more effective than background checks.

Perhaps, but background checks are so fundamental and foundational that it seems strange to leave them out.

What could be the other aspect that the church promotes that is more effective?

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1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Perhaps, but background checks are so fundamental and foundational that it seems strange to leave them out.

What could be the other aspect that the church promotes that is more effective?

Edited my previous post...I think from reading the press release, Church leadership sees it as a combination of cultural aspect (people don't volunteer for callings generally, but are called so predators have a harder time getting into positions of trust; church membership is determined by neighbourhoods so people know each other more and are often highly protective of friends' children as well as their own, frequent interviews giving predators or those with inclinations a chance for counseling) and proactive prevention (windows, two deep)

I think this is a way overstatement of the process that I am aware of though:  "The Church goes to great lengths to screen volunteers who work with children and youth."  The congregation is made aware of the calling, there is an interview, and membership records are checked...but if any offense took place before the person moved to the area or joined the Church, a background check could catch something the above would not.

----

I wonder if some who contributed to the release were not that educated in the stats, but were aware of the "stranger danger" promotion in the past.  The close knitness of the community is not necessarily a protective factor...I need to research that.  Rural communities are known to have higher rates of all forms of child abuse than urban, twice as high in this report:  https://www.ruralhealthinfo.org/topics/violence-and-abuse

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An estimated 60% of perpetrators of sexual abuse are known to the child but are not family members, e.g., family friends, babysitters, child care providers, neighbors.

About 30% of perpetrators of child sexual abuse are family members.

Only about 10% of perpetrators of child sexual abuse are strangers to the child.

https://www.nsopw.gov/en/education/factsstatistics/

Edited by Calm
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25 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Perhaps, but background checks are so fundamental and foundational that it seems strange to leave them out.

What could be the other aspect that the church promotes that is more effective?

There are essentially no real safeguards in place, other than annotating someone's record if they happen to confess to something.

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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

From what .I have heard over the decades, we are known first and foremost for polygamy...and that has a big ew factor these days for many.

You think this is mostly about polygamy?  Why do opinions on the church increase slightly among older adults who are usually considered to be more conservative than younger people?  Do you think older people are more accepting of polygamy?

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1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

In addition to background checks, the teachers in my district are required to undergo twice yearly training over sexual abuse issues.

I think that (training) is something that could be handled more effectively as well.

Edited by Calm
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Just now, california boy said:

You think this is mostly about polygamy?  Why do opinions on the church increase slightly among older adults who are usually considered to be more conservative than younger people?  Do you think older people are more accepting of polygamy?

Older people are more likely to have had some contact with actual Mormons (which shift it to positive) and also become more fiscally conservative, another aspect the Church is probably known for in the States...but I still bet polygamy is the most well known 'fact' (quotes because many assume we still practice it in my experience).

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51 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Perhaps, but background checks are so fundamental and foundational that it seems strange to leave them out.

Since our people don't volunteer, but are called, there is often a pretty high turnover and numbers would amount to minimum of about 50 people in a fully staffed ward (Primary, YW, YM, Activity Days, .Scouts, Seminary, Bishopric)....more experienced people please correct me if wrong. That could get costly depending on the type of background check done.  There is also the delay if there are multiple states that have to be checked.

https://www.criminalwatchdog.com/faq/how-much-does-background-check-cost

Edited by Calm
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11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Older people are more likely to have had some contact with actual Mormons (which shift it to positive) and also become more fiscally conservative, another aspect the Church is probably known for in the States...but I still bet polygamy is the most well known 'fact' (quotes because many assume we still practice it in my experience).

Do you have any basis for that assumption?  Do you think that the church is only known nationally for their beliefs on polygamy?  Or do you think there are a few more unfavorably viewed positions the church has taken over the years that might be entering into having the lowest acceptance rate among all Christian religions?

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23 minutes ago, california boy said:

Do you have any basis for that assumption?  Do you think that the church is only known nationally for their beliefs on polygamy?  Or do you think there are a few more unfavorably viewed positions the church has taken over the years that might be entering into having the lowest acceptance rate among all Christian religions?

I never said "only known".  I said "first and foremost".  I have read numerous news articles that state that (including the assumption) as well as almost any encounter with a nonmormon outside of Utah where my religion comes up.

I would say for those more familiar with the Church, race had a big impact in the 60s and 70s, ERA, and yes, .I see LGBT issues having impacts as well.  But the research still seems to be pulling up polygamy as the most well known aspect of the Church and therefore it is likely to have a wider impact.

We are most disliked by conservative EVs.  Highly doubt it is our political positions doing that.  It would be interesting to see what our numbers would be over the years if they were removed.

Edited by Calm
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1 minute ago, Calm said:

I never said "only known".  I said "first and foremost".  I have read numerous news articles that state that as well as almost any encounter with a nonmormon outside of Utah where my religion comes up.

Fair enough.  We all have different experiences.  Do you think that the church is getting more liked in recent years?  Or has the approval rating of the church always been at the bottom?

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1 hour ago, california boy said:

I am just linking the research.  You can interpret it any way you need to.

What do you mean? They are right in the middle as I pointed out (and improving as with every other cohort but Evangelical Christians). This is good for everybody. 

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16 minutes ago, california boy said:

Fair enough.  We all have different experiences.  Do you think that the church is getting more liked in recent years?  Or has the approval rating of the church always been at the bottom?

My understanding is it peaked high in the 50s, dropped then (race, antimormonism among conservative EVs) and iirc has stayed pretty steadily low among those not that familiar with members, rises with increasing familiarity.  But I may be misremembering.

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Abulafia said:

Jana Reiss recognised that at the end of the article but it doesn't detract from any of the issues she mentioned.

I have read the Newsroom Article before, this part pertinent: -

*We are unaware of any organization that does more than the Church to stop and prevent abuse.*. 

Sadly, without concrete policy change, all those words are just that...words. As Jana points out, other churches have done much more in concrete terms to improve safety  and minimise risk to children.

Question... in the 2001 deposition in the Frank Curtis case, the guy from risk assessment (Dwayne Liddell) admitted that

"The Risk Management department has never conducted a survey to determine the extent to which child sexual abuse happens within the church membership"

also..

"The church does not use screening forms with respect to church members who are called to work with children.  They do not screen “because the church is founded on religious tenets and is governed by ecclesiastical leaders. It is not part of the program.”

and..

“Sexual abuse is a moral transgression and is dealt with in an ecclesiastical manner.  It is a risk that is managed by the ecclesiastical leaders according to the scripture and tenets of the church. The actions the church leadership has taken with respect to the loss ultimates are adequate.”    

Has anything changed? 

Thank you for the Eye Exam :)

It really is all over the place as well, so I can't make much sense of what you're asking.

I put Jana's opinion on a par with Kirby's. Talk about the perspectives held outside the Mormon Corridor! These two are about as parochial as they come.

Comparing the 2001 quotes with the current Newsroom, yes, a lot has changed, and the Newsroom acknowledges that and explains why.

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3 minutes ago, CV75 said:

What do you mean? They are right in the middle as I pointed out (and improving as with every other cohort but Evangelical Christians). This is good for everybody. 

I don't know what you are talking about.  The Mormon Church is the least liked Christian church in America.  They are not in the middle.  Every single other Christian church is more liked than the Mormon Church.

18-24 bottom among all religions.  Also below atheists, Muslins, Hindus, Jews.

30-49 Bottom among all Christian religions.  Also below Jews, Buddhists and Hindus.

50-64 Bottom among all Christian religions Also below Jews, Buddhists and Hindus.

65+ Bottom among all Christian religions.  Also below Jews.

 

PF_17_02.15_feelingThermometer_age640px.png.fc22010ec47676f8c1b8610f128c42b7.png

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10 minutes ago, Calm said:

He means, I suspect, at the 50% rating that implies we are liked as much as disliked and most possibly feel neutral about us.  But I may be wrong...

Not a real high standard when just about half the country dislikes the church.  Maybe some would be pleased with that?

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9 minutes ago, california boy said:

Not a real high standard when just about half the country dislikes the church.  Maybe some would be pleased with that?

I think there can be great comfort found in the scriptures for those who feel bad about it.

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

Since our people don't volunteer, but are called, there is often a pretty high turnover and numbers would amount to minimum of about 50 people in a fully staffed ward (Primary, YW, YM, Activity Days, .Scouts, Seminary, Bishopric)....more experienced people please correct me if wrong. That could get costly depending on the type of background check done.  There is also the delay if there are multiple states that have to be checked.

https://www.criminalwatchdog.com/faq/how-much-does-background-check-cost

My diocese requires anyone working with children and teenagers to have a background check. I haven't done it because that's not my area so I don't know the details of how it is done. These are also volunteers.

Edited by MiserereNobis
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1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

My diocese requires anyone working with children and teenagers to have a background check. I haven't done it because that's not my area so I don't know the details of how it is done. These are also volunteers.

I'd be very hesitant to have my children attend an LDS church with them taking it easy and not worrying over making sure those that work with the youth/children have a background check. I can't believe I didn't worry about it before.

Edited by Tacenda
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2 hours ago, california boy said:

Not a real high standard when just about half the country dislikes the church.  Maybe some would be pleased with that?

I am pleased with it.  It means we must be doing something right.  If fits the setting of Lehi dream.  The people holding the the iron rod clearly are not popular among those who are mocking.  If we are popular then something is wrong.

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6 hours ago, california boy said:

The PEW Research Center does not list the reasons for the dislike.  Nor did I claim any.  I was only disputing your claim that you don't think the church is disliked.

I didn't claim that the church wasn't "disliked." I was talking about the Church's so-called bad reputation with respect to abuse of women and children, and I said that I don't think most people hold that view. 

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6 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Whoa.  I didn't argue that the *dislike* was based solely on abuse.

I am aware of that. Sorry for not being clearer in my previous post. 

California Boy jumped in with statistics about church popularity in general, and I didn't see how that had anything to do with what we were talking about specifically (i.e., reputation on abuse). 

I know lots of people who don't care for the Church because they think we are wrong, theologically. Outside of this forum though, I don't know anybody who dislikes the church because of it's so-called reputation on abuse. 

 

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I argued that the church doesn't  have a good reputation when it comes to it's treatment of sexual abuse.

Well, you didn't really argue that. You just kind of asserted it. A couple of times in fact. 

 

Quote

It doesn't.

Agree to disagree.

 

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10 hours ago, california boy said:

You do realize that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ranks as the lest liked Christian religion in America in every single age group in America according to PEW Research Center.

The younger the group, the less liked the church is.  It is at the absolutely very bottom of any religion and below atheists in the age group of 18-29 year olds.  

Or, as Jesus said,

Quote

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

 

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