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Denson interrupts Bishop's home ward testimony meeting

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7 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I don't know...there are times when the Savior became angry.  Perhaps not in this way...but surely he understands the anger of McKenna..how any success of seeking justice has been taken away by the very pharisees of leaders that seek a different PR???

Why are comparing Mckenna to Jesus Christ?

Mckenna waited 33 years to seek justice. Justice is the law. 

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Started thinking more about McKenna's actions. She shot herself in the foot, excuse the idiom. But she also gave more credibility to Joseph Bishop. Now everyone will think she is a crazy woman and not take her seriously any more. They will think she is trying to destroy the church. I'm pretty angry at her now. Pretty darn sick to my stomach, for fear the church gets off scot free on not ex'g Bishop at the start, or the stupid leaders that didn't report what McKenna told them. In fact I'm thinking the Bishop family is glad she came and pulled that stunt, it lessened her credibility, or it destroyed it.

Thanks Mike Norton and McKenna, you weren't really in it for the good of the abused IMO. Or if you were, funny way of going about it by not having any foresight. We need to replace you with people that can make a difference, not anti. It needs to come from within. Or I'm speaking from an angry bone, and need to simmer down.

Edited by Tacenda

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8 minutes ago, provoman said:

Mckenna waited 33 years to seek justice. 

That's not true.

And, I asked you earlier but didn't see a response....

Do you believe Bishop sexually abused Mckenna Denson (or any others)?

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17 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Started thinking more about McKenna's actions. She shot herself in the foot, excuse the idiom. But she also gave more credibility to Joseph Bishop. Now everyone will think she is a crazy woman and not take her seriously any more. They will think she is trying to destroy the church. I'm pretty angry at her now. Pretty darn sick to my stomach, for fear the church gets off scot free on not ex'g Bishop at the start, or the stupid leaders that didn't report what McKenna told them. In fact I'm thinking the Bishop family is glad she came and pulled that stunt, it lessened her credibility, or it destroyed it.

Thanks Mike Norton and McKenna, you weren't really in it for the good of the abused IMO. Or if you were, funny way of going about it by not having any foresight. We need to replace you with people that can make a difference, not anti. It needs to come from within. Or I'm speaking from an angry bone, and need to simmer down.

Yes, Tacenda...she is down now to making a fool of herself...shame.  Look what Bishop has done to her?  To her life??  And that if her child? 

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15 minutes ago, ALarson said:

That's not true.

Justice is the Legal system, when did seek justice via the legal system.

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9 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Yes, Tacenda...she is down now to making a fool of herself...shame.  Look what Bishop has done to her?  To her life??  And that if her child? 

Her child? Are you referring to children Mckenna had with her exhusband that I think she said was a serial adulterer?

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11 minutes ago, provoman said:

Justice is the Legal system, when did seek justice via the legal system.

She did not wait 33 years to seek justice (from church leaders or the legal system)  Your statement is false.

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8 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Well, I partly agree with you, (people wanting to be at church and worship in peace) but actually, if any church or organisation has a paedophile or sexual predator in it's midst, then I would personally want to know. 

Do you think the congregation did not know the story before she denounced him in their meeting?

Edited by Bernard Gui
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30 minutes ago, ALarson said:

She did not wait 33 years to seek justice (from church leaders or the legal system)  Your statement is false.

Perhaps you can provide the time line of when she went to police.

 

There is no point in discussing again that what the Church did or didnt do is NONE OF HER BUSINESS.

Edited by provoman

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You presume to put earthly institutional constraints on Him who created the earth as well as “worlds without number” and who is the Author of salvation for all mankind?

I was going to say good luck with that, but actually I don’t wish you luck with it. Rather, my wish is for you to come to your senses. 

It doesn't matter what *I* think of Jesus.  That's irrelevant.  I'm pointing out that Jesus, in the context of 1st Century Judaism, came from the margins.  He held no priesthood, because he wasn't from the priestly lineage.  He was a sage, a prophet,  and was quickly viewed as divine in some sense by the earliest communities.  But he held no institutional authority in the context of 1st Century Judaism.  

 

We veer from the point, but I do think the comparison stands.  

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6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Do you think the congregation did not know the story before she denounced him in their meeting?

They know now. I don't know Bernard, to answer your question. 

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1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

I don't know...there are times when the Savior became angry.  Perhaps not in this way...but surely he understands the anger of McKenna..how any success of seeking justice has been taken away by the very pharisees of leaders that seek a different PR???

One of the things he got angry at...

Quote

And  whoever welcomes a little child like this in My name welcomes Me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

 

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2 hours ago, katherine the great said:

To my knowledge he's not a pedophile. I believe he's in his eighties now so I doubt he is an active threat to any woman. That doesn't excuse him in any way. I support her recording her conversation with him (as documentation of her claim) and exposing him the way she originally did. I was initially very sympathetic with her cause but now I see an attention seeker--not a woman who is trying to fix a problem. I'm still extremely disturbed by her story and I tend to believe that Bishop did assault her in some way. Even if the church did know that he been guilty of sexual misconduct in the past, it isn't clear to me that he confessed to nonconsensual sexual misconduct. In my mind, there's a gigantic difference. If church leaders knew that he had forced himself on a woman and then put him in a leadership position, I would have a huge problem with that but I don't think that's the case. IIRC, he confessed to a short, consensual affair of sorts (I could be wrong--I haven't read all the reports). My problem at this point is with her increasingly radical method that includes forcing children to hear her account--it is not rational in the least and makes her look a bit crazy--not like a credible person who is trying to correct a problem.

I agree.  I don't think there is much if any evidence to suggest that he ever confessed to anything nonconsensual.  

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38 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Yes, Tacenda...she is down now to making a fool of herself...shame.  Look what Bishop has done to her?  To her life??  And that if her child? 

I know I shouldn't put the full blame on McKenna, she is a abuse survivor that has been affected. And sometimes people may not choose wisely how they react after being abused, so I do cut her some slack, just thinking that they didn't accomplish their goal, and if they wanted the church to look bad, it didn't even do that, since people in the church will balk at her actions and not believe her. So all they did was feed those that are already on board and not the ones that can make the church change it's ways, it's got to come from the members within. But then again Sam seemed to do some good since he was able to get the message on no one on one interviews and now the church allows another adult in the room. Maybe something can happen, just wish McKenna had thought through this a little bit. She went into their territory, their sanctuary, that's a no-no. Or I'm totally wrong, hope so. 

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1 hour ago, Abulafia said:

They know now. I don't know Bernard, to answer your question. 

I find it really hard to believe they were not aware, especially but not limited to his bishop. People read and watch the news. Seems to me this was just an ill-thought-out publicity stunt and a way to stick it further in Bishop’s eye. It will be intersecting how it is viewed at the trial. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I find it really hard to believe they were not aware, especially but not limited to his bishop. People read and watch the news.

Reporters went to his house as well.  I suspect they also attempted to interview neighbours and local family members.  That would have been practically viral among the neighbours.

Something this big would have been shared unofficially at the very least, possibly even officially in RS and PH to help parents prepare their kids coming home from school with questions, reassure the ward leadership was fully aware, help members with questions from nonmember neighbours....

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

or the stupid leaders that didn't report what McKenna told them.

20/20 vision is so convenient when looking into the past, is it not.  Makes you look sooo smart and they were stupid.

It was "she said, he said" and the church had no rules at that time to handle such a conflict.

Edited by cdowis

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16 minutes ago, cdowis said:

20/20 vision is so convenient when looking into the past, is it not.  Makes you look sooo smart and they were stupid.

It was "she said, he said" and the church had no rules at that time to handle such a conflict.

That may have went too far, my apologies if that was disrespectful. And Leavitt admitted to it, so that is the reason for my comment. 

Edited by Tacenda

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9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That may have went too far, my apologies if that was disrespectful. And Leavitt admitted to it, so that is the reason for my comment. 

I don't think it was disrespectful.  If he didn't report it, that was stupid. A rational person doesn't need a "rule" to know that something like this should be reported.  He admitted that he simply did not believe her and dropped it. This is interesting because Denson claimed that she was interviewed by a GA as a result of her report to Leavitt. Another "he said, she said". If her recollection is right, then Leavitt didn't drop the ball. If he's right, he did.

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This was a matter fr the police to sort out, and, based on their investigation, he would take appropriate action.  That is the smart thing todo, not running around making wild accusations against a church leader by someone who may be delusional.

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6 hours ago, provoman said:

There is no point in discussing again that what the Church did or didnt do is NONE OF HER BUSINESS.

Well of course this case involving her accused abuser is “her business”!  Do you believe when an abuse victim reports their abuse, it’s no longer their business from that point on?  If your daughter was abused, you believe it’s no longer your business what happens with the case after she has reported the abuse?  A case is opened up that she would be involved in as a witness!

Edited by JulieM
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1 hour ago, JulieM said:

Well of course this case involving her accused abuser is “her business”!  Do you believe when an abuse victim reports their abuse, it’s no longer their business from that point on?  If your daughter was abused, you believe it’s no longer your business what happens with the case after she has reported the abuse?  A case is opened up that she would be involved in as a witness!

whatthe Church did or didnt do is NONE OF HER BUSINESS, or yours, or mine.

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On 9/5/2018 at 5:23 PM, HappyJackWagon said:

We also planned to excuse the entire congregation if she (or any other person) attempted to hijack a meeting. I understand why you think that may be problematic, but why keep the entire congregation in there to hear her rantings or see her removed by police? It diffuses the situation so that it impacts the fewest people possible.

1

Drastic, but I'm willing to disrupt every week if it's the only way to make the 2-hour block happen.

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41 minutes ago, provoman said:

whatthe Church did or didnt do is NONE OF HER BUSINESS, or yours, or mine.

I disagree if it’s related to her specific abuse case.  It’s important to have closure and know that the abuser was held accountable for his actions.  

Edited by JulieM
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9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Yes, Tacenda...she is down now to making a fool of herself...shame.  Look what Bishop has done to her?  To her life??  And that if her child? 

And what about what McKenna (June, before she changed her name) did to male missionionaries in the MTC and while on her mission? Does she just get a pass?

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