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cdowis

Catholics and Mormons on modern revelation

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Very interesting.  The first four minutes is very thoughtful, but the remainder is the usual stuff.

 

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I never find something "interesting" just because someone says so.  It feels like clickbait.

How about taking the time to give a little summary of what is useful?

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30 minutes ago, Calm said:

I never find something "interesting" just because someone says so.  It feels like clickbait.

How about taking the time to give a little summary of what is useful?

Listen to the first couple of minutes, and ignore the rest.  I find interesting on how he would talk to the Protestants vs the mormons on modern revelation.  They believe in modern revelation, but PUBLIC REVELATION has ceased -- I assume he is talking about canonized scripture..

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Jesus said, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it."  I thought gates served one purpose, to keep things on one side from getting to the other side.  They don't attack. It is the church that rends asunder the gates, at some future time. I see nothing there to counter an apostasy.

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On 8/26/2018 at 8:13 PM, SeekerB said:

Jesus said, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Did the gates of hell prevail over Christ while He was in the tomb?  Of course not.

Likewise , Christ fulfilled His promise to the disciples by restoring the church in our day.  The gates of hell did not prevail over the church/

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14 hours ago, cdowis said:

Did the gates of hell prevail over Christ while He was in the tomb?  Of course not.

Likewise , Christ fulfilled His promise to the disciples by restoring the church in our day.  The gates of hell did not prevail over the church/

What is hell not prevailing against?

Matthew 16:18

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this arock I will build my bchurch; and the gates of chell shall not dprevail against it.

I believe Joseph Smith said the gates of hell were not prevailing against the rock of revelation. Maybe someone can help me if I'm wrong. I know there is a modern tendency to think of the rock as the Church, but it just ain't so.

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6 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

What is hell not prevailing against?

Matthew 16:18

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this arock I will build my bchurch; and the gates of chell shall not dprevail against it.

I believe Joseph Smith said the gates of hell were not prevailing against the rock of revelation. Maybe someone can help me if I'm wrong. I know there is a modern tendency to think of the rock as the Church, but it just ain't so.

In the context of the English translation at least, "it" seems to refer to the church (or more accurately, assembly or congregation).

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2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

What is hell not prevailing against?

Did the gates of hell prevail against Christ while his body lay lifeless in the tomb?  Simple enough question.

Nevermind, since you just want to quibble and argue.

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3 hours ago, cdowis said:

Did the gates of hell prevail against Christ while his body lay lifeless in the tomb?  Simple enough question.

Nevermind, since you just want to quibble and argue.

Actually, I see your point of view, but was just wondering if anyone agrees with Joseph Smith on this subject.

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This scripture actually support Latter-day Saints theology.

First, the "rock" and "it" is the revelation Peter received in Matthew 16:17.  You need to remember that this was likely spoken in Aramaic and then written in Greek.  The Latin "Cephas" and Greek "Kepas" for stone or rock is translated into Aramaic as kepa (or kepha); which, itself refers not only to a rock but to a green crystal for divination (think seer stone).  The Lord used this phrase in multiple layers to remind him that death/Hades/hell cannot prevail against the Spirit of revelation--even once Christ was killed.

Second, if the Lord intended to refer to Peter as the "rock," he would have likely used "Petros."  He didn't because the object of the discussion was never Peter.  It was something else.  The word play on Peter's name was a reminder to Peter that it was the Lord, and not Peter, that would lead His Church.

Third, that the "gates of hell shall not prevail against it" strongly implies that this "rock" was on the other side of hell (having died), but that the gates were not strong enough to contain "it."  Thus, if Catholicism's claim is that it never died, then it must necessarily fail in light of this verse.

Third, the "rock" does not refer to Peter.  "Petra" is feminine, not male.

Fourth, even if Peter was the "rock," hell arguably prevailed in Matthew 26:69-75.

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27 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Actually, I see your point of view, but was just wondering if anyone agrees with Joseph Smith on this subject.

Actually, I am quoting  myself, these are my words, not from Joseph Smith/

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On 8/26/2018 at 7:13 PM, SeekerB said:

Jesus said, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it."  I thought gates served one purpose, to keep things on one side from getting to the other side.  They don't attack. It is the church that rends asunder the gates, at some future time. I see nothing there to counter an apostasy.

I would add that it’s the resurrection of Jesus Christ that overcomes the gates of death. 

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