Modesty issues...again

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

There is a long history with women and men posting here and I can't remember one of them who if I took more than a few threads I would see as uncaring.  This conversation is not in a bubble, everyone is pulling in past experiences to explain their positions so it doesn't make sense to me to isolate any comments as if the person never said anything else besides what you are responding to.  I think if you start to have concerns with someone's posts in a thread, you can go back and remember how they have posted elsewhere to get a more global sense (and search out their comments if you are having a hard time placing them).

------

I assume you have experienced shaming at sometime in your life or perhaps there has been a person in your family or work that has tried to manipulate you into behaviours and feelings you don't believe will help you personally grow.  At some point you probably had to decide if you would confront them in hopes of them changing.  Perhaps you did, but they didn't change.  What would you decide to do at that point?  Do you allow their behaviours to continue trouble you or do you decide to accept it is their problem and not yours?

That’s a perfect way to explain it. 

[juliann]

42 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Oh brother indeed. You didn't even comprehend my request. You asked me to do something. I asked you to do something. Easy, no?

Yes, I took one sentence out. It's the one that showed the certainty of the law. The one that said

It's for comments like this that the law was formulated. You matched it to a T. It is undeniable. Own it. Or retract it, if you wish.

In response to the other silly questions, asked and answered many times. Please take the time to read what I have said. 

I think you over estimate how often you truly answer questions. 

[Jeanne]

31 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That’s a perfect way to explain it. 

What Calm wrote is so true.  How we feel and portray our feelings on one subject may be very different on other subjects..because of our experiences and what we understand and/or what is being misunderstood. I have to realize this everyday..patience really is a virtue. 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Thanks for the clarification.

No worries. In the spirit of understanding, is there something objectionable in my clarification?

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

I think you over estimate how often you truly answer questions. 

Why are you stalking me? Isn't this against board rules? You are engaging in bullying. Isn't that against board rules?

I have asked you to please stop. Rather than spew out opprobrium, just find a question I haven't answered and ask for an answer. I will respond honestly and respectfully. I have proved that over the past few pages. It's really easy to do.

If you can't do that, please stop. I would love to converse with you in a reasonable manner, but I will not accept slander, insults, and accusations. That is not OK.

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, california boy said:

If this is true then I think part of the problem lies in the way you introduced your role in this whole issue with your Brother Bouncer label and making youth sign a book if an infraction occurred.  It was my understanding that once their name got put in your book if they showed up a second time in something YOU didn't approve of, they were barred from attending the event.  This is really troubling to me as well as others.  What becomes the gauge.  If a guy shows up in a shirt that is too tight for you and you are aroused, is that the criteria?  If a young woman shows up in too short of dress that arouses you, does her name get put in your little book?  Do you see how creepy this is?  Do you see how your judgment may not be shared by the person you deem as being in violation of YOUR interpretation of the dress standards?

 

Emphasis mine.

When I saw this thread created the other day, I knew right off it would be the first test case for Gui's Law. I even mentioned early on in a post that I would be monitoring the thread to see whether the law would indeed be borne out. Sure enough, it has happened with the above post (see the bolded portion).

For those who have blocked my sig line or who might be reading this on a mobile device, here again, patterned after Godwin's Law, is Gui's Law:

Quote

Gui's Law: In an online discussion of modesty, the probability that a defender of modesty is called a pervert approaches 1.

 

[juliann]

Scott, CFR for any poster called a pervert. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by juliann

[jkwilliams]

10 minutes ago, juliann said:

Scott, CFR for any poster called a pervert. 

According to a couple of posters, this came pretty close:

“Yup. When you say a 4 year old is being immodest for wearing a top without sleeves, you are sexualizing a 4 year old and reinforcing the message that her body is an object that must be protected from the thoughts of other people, particularly men.“

🙄 🙄 🙄

[Calm]

Apparently mentioning arousal is labeling someone a pervert, so I guess I violated GUI's law for myself several pages back.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Apparently mentioning arousal is labeling someone a pervert, so I guess I violated GUI's law for myself several pages back.

After this thread, I will never take “Gui’s Law” seriously. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by jkwilliams

[bsjkki]

4 hours ago, Senator said:

To my good bros, pogi and Bernard gui..

I give you this refresher

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

 

So, if this thread isn’t about modesty standards, what is it about? 

I found this video link on this topic condescending...like you were mocking  our experiences and opinions. Is this how men feel when women discuss a complaint or concern? 

[Scott Lloyd]

47 minutes ago, juliann said:

Scott, CFR for any poster called a pervert. 

You can call someone "a builder of stringed musical instruments generally consisting of a neck and a sound box," or you can call him a luthier. The meaning is the same.

And I have already given the reference: the post by California Boy above.

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[juliann]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Why are you stalking me? Isn't this against board rules? You are engaging in bullying. Isn't that against board rules?

I have asked you to please stop. Rather than spew out opprobrium, just find a question I haven't answered and ask for an answer. I will respond honestly and respectfully. I have proved that over the past few pages. It's really easy to do.

If you can't do that, please stop. I would love to converse with you in a reasonable manner, but I will not accept slander, insults, and accusations. That is not OK.

 

I know! I will leave the thread if you will.  Man tears soften my heart so I came up with a solution that should work for both of us. 

Otherwise, I  guess I will continue to be a stalking bully, vomiting opprobrium as I slander, insult and accuse.  

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You can call someone "a builder of stringed musical instruments generally consisting of a neck and a sound box," or you can call him a luthier. The meaning is the same.

And I have already given the reference: the post by California Boy above.

 

Creepy = pervert. Hmmmm. 

[juliann]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You can call someone "a builder of stringed musical instruments generally consisting of a neck and a sound box," or you can call him a luthier. The meaning is the same.

And I have already given the reference: the post by California Boy above.

 

But calling someone a pervert means they do have to use the word pervert. 

[Scott Lloyd]

Just now, jkwilliams said:

Creepy = pervert. Hmmmm. 

The top definition of "creepy" in the Urban Dictionary:

Quote

adj. An overused slang term for sexually inappropriate or perverted or for attempting to derive sexual gratification through dishonorable means. Unfortunately, the word has become an abused favorite of melodramatic people who try hard to use the word wherever possible, to the point of rendering the word almost meaningless.

(emphasis mine).

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Creepy = pervert. Hmmmm. 

One of GUI's Law's corollaries perhaps?

[juliann]

4 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

So, if this thread isn’t about modesty standards, what is it about? 

I found this video link on this topic condescending...like you were mocking  our experiences and opinions. Is this how men feel when women discuss a complaint or concern? 

It is funny on its face if you ignore the misogynistic underbelly. But it is also a metaphor of women who feel like men have put nails in their head as they mock them for feeling pain.  After all, nothing is funnier than seeing an injured woman. I'm surprised they didn't just crucify her. Now that would be soooooo fun.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

The top definition of "creepy" in the Urban Dictionary:

(emphasis mine).

Never thought I’d see the day when you would quote the Urban Dictionary, the place that defined my high school as “A disgustingly rich, stuck-up high school swamped with spoiled, drug addicted, and self-absorbed children.”

Meanwhile, in the real world:

creep·y

ˈkrēpē/

adjective

informal

causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease.

"the creepy feelings one often gets in a strange house"

synonyms:frightening, eerie, disturbing, sinister, weird, hair-raising, menacing, threatening, eldritch; More

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, juliann said:

But calling someone a pervert means they do have to use the word pervert. 

I don't hold to using legalism for excusing slander.

 

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The top definition of "creepy" in the Urban Dictionary:

(emphasis mine).

"Urban Dictionary"....you mean the one that is constantly charting changes in the English language?****

John went there first, I must be getting distracted too easily.

I think .I am getting a bit lightheaded.  Mom is moved into assisted living and surviving her first full day without me...and basically telling me to buzz off too.  Is this relief or shock .I wonder?

****for example:

Quote

The third person plural pronoun that, through the process of natural language change, has also come to signify a gender-neutral third person singular pronoun.

If anyone wants to know where I've gone, they just need to read the sign on the door.

Top definition for SSA:

Quote

"Same sex attraction" (SSA) is a term used mostly by conservative Christians to avoid using the term gay when referring to men who are attracted to men or men who have sex with men (MSM). Often, SSA refers to gay men only, and not lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered persons.

Unlike many mainstream mental health practitioners and associations which do not think homosexuality is a disease or mental illness, groups which use the term SSA often believe that all persons are heterosexual and homosexual thoughts or sexual relations are deviant. What most people would consider to be a "gay person" is a "heterosexual with a homosexual problem" for many who use the term SSA.

Those who use the term SSA deny the reality that the vast majority of LGBT people can't be "cured" of their sexual orientation.

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Calm

[juliann]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The top definition of "creepy" in the Urban Dictionary:

 

The Urban dictionary?   Merriam Webster thinks like the rest of us,

1: producing a nervous shivery apprehension 

a creepy horror story

; also : eerie

2: of, relating to, or being a creep : annoyingly unpleasant 

a creepy old man

 

Urban Dictionary also included this, I don't get the feeling that whoever wrote this has much respect for women, do you? Maybe they were called creepy by a creeped out young woman. 

A slang term to describe a person who displays actions to that of a rapist, serial killer, or pedophile. By far the most overused term for women to describe men that they dont like. granted there are a lot of creepy people in society but is highly overused by younger high school or college women.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Never thought I’d see the day when you would quote the Urban Dictionary, the place that defined my high school as “A disgustingly rich, stuck-up high school swamped with spoiled, drug addicted, and self-absorbed children.”

Meanwhile, in the real world:

creep·y

ˈkrēpē/

adjective

informal

causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease.

"the creepy feelings one often gets in a strange house"

synonyms:frightening, eerie, disturbing, sinister, weird, hair-raising, menacing, threatening, eldritch; More

No disparagement meant to your high school (I don't even know which one it is), but I often find the Urban Dictionary to be rather insightful, particularly when it comes to colloquial expression.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, juliann said:

The Urban dictionary?   Merriam Webster thinks like the rest of us,

 

The Urban Dictionary is not always above reproach, but I often find it to be rather insightful, particularly when it comes to colloquial expression.

Incidentally, as a lexophile**, I like to consult a variety of dictionaries.

**Look it up; it's clean.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Calm said:

"Urban Dictionary"....you mean the one that is constantly charting changes in the English language?

The one that is basically a free-for-all for whatever a contributor wants to put in. See my high school’s entry for an idea of how seriously to take it. Here’s the “top entry”:

Calabasas High School

A disgustingly rich, stuck-up high school swampedwith spoiled, drug addicted, and self-absorbed children. Most people at Calabasas High School are completely oblivious of their wealth and fortune. The males have highly egocentric tendencies, while the femals are always willing to exploit themselves. Calabasas also boasts one of the worst football teams in America, due to the fact that the school is almost exclusivley white. If you want your children to become cultured and world-conscious, Do NOT send them to Calabasas High School.

Oh, I got expelled from Agoura so my parents made me go to Calabasas High School. Worst mistake of my life. I'm transferring to El Camino next semester.