Modesty issues...again

[Scott Lloyd]

19 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I am genuinely shocked that you consider it a legitimate source. 

Chalk it up to my shameless egalitarianism. Or eclecticism.

 

 

Nemesis' Law: The longer a discussion goes on the more likely it is to be derailed through insults. Further disruptions will be resolved by post and/or poster removals. 

Hear hear!

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[bsjkki]

Just now, The Nehor said:

Probably not. Hopefully not.

Unless you are incredibly irrational. I don't mean that in a misogynistic way. Many people (men and women) share concerns with my Bishop that are....well.....bonkers. I try to show patience with one of the people who does this as I am beginning to wonder if they suffer from paranoid schizophrenia. It would explain a lot.

I’m not too bonkers and mostly complain when they don’t communicate callings and releases with me. I avoid discussing “women’s issues” with my Priesthood leaders. The one time I brought up a personal concern... I never heard back from them about it...ever.

[jkwilliams]

5 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I’m not too bonkers and mostly complain when they don’t communicate callings and releases with me. I avoid discussing “women’s issues” with my Priesthood leaders. The one time I brought up a personal concern... I never heard back from them about it...ever.

Back when I was elders quorum president, it became clear to me that most of the real work in the ward was done by the sisters. It’s kind of odd that they didn’t get much credit it for it and had to answer to the men for major decisions. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

15 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I avoid discussing “women’s issues” with my Priesthood leaders.

Both our ward council and our stake council begin with the female members bringing up specific women’s issues. This was a directive from our area president. It seems to work better at a stake level for some reason. Or maybe it’s just that the ward has been pretty good at this for some time?

Edited August 31, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

Our stake presidency are concerned about the lack of counselling together between RS and EQ that has been occurring in one of our wards. We’re actually doing a role play for our upcoming priesthood leadership meeting. 

[juliann]

15 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I’m not too bonkers and mostly complain when they don’t communicate callings and releases with me. I avoid discussing “women’s issues” with my Priesthood leaders. The one time I brought up a personal concern... I never heard back from them about it...ever.

It is leader roulette. I've had two awesome bishops in a row now. But they are both in their 30s so that may have something to do with it. I talk openly to my bishop about what I can't get behind without consequence. The former bishop is now in the Stake Presidency and I have gone to him when the Stake President told everyone that people left the church because they didn't study hard enough and he told me they had a discussion about it. So I hope you win on the next spin! Some of the stuff we have been subjected to here would be stopped so quickly. 

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I’m not too bonkers and mostly complain when they don’t communicate callings and releases with me. I avoid discussing “women’s issues” with my Priesthood leaders. The one time I brought up a personal concern... I never heard back from them about it...ever.

We had a bad habit of occasionally not communicating callings and releases well. To be fair we did it to all the organizations. We are better now.

5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Back when I was elders quorum president, it became clear to me that most of the real work in the ward was done by the sisters. It’s kind of odd that they didn’t get much credit it for it and had to answer to the men for major decisions. 

This is often true. The Relief Society Presidency usually takes about half the time in our Ward Council meetings and that is not a criticism. We have tried to make the meeting about people instead of programs and activities and they always know what is going on with everyone and are busy dealing with it. Our Relief Society President right now is helping a sister with some legal problems, organizing five day a week babysitting for a family, operating with the Bishop in joint interviews in at least two couples counseling situations, is helping one sister find low-income housing, and that is just the stuff I know about. I would say our Bishop is probably just as busy with his visits and administrative work and interviews but I would not want to bet on who puts more hours in. Plus she still has young kids. I would guess I put in somewhere between 5 to 8 hours a week in Church calling work outside of the 3 hour block and they make me feel like a slacker. It is always embarrassing when either of them is grateful for my help. I hope they put in a good word for me so I can go where they are going in the next life. 

[Tacenda]

54 minutes ago, juliann said:

Scott, seriously....start your own thread to defend modesty. I'm pretty sure all we women could make a pact to stay out of it and not interfere and you guys could party all night. This is bsjkki's OP so it's not your call.  

Your post reminded of the time when a member from this board started a discussion forum about women's issues, now I've forgotten what it was called. Can you remember? 

And I appreciate this thread, I think as hard as it is on our friendships on this board, things need to get said.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

I know! I will leave the thread if you will.  Man tears soften my heart so I came up with a solution that should work for both of us. 

Otherwise, I  guess I will continue to be a stalking bully, vomiting opprobrium as I slander, insult and accuse.  

Thanks, Juliann. This will be my next to the last post on Mormondialogue. My last one will be in the Social Hall. It’s been a great experience. 

[ttribe]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks, Juliann. This will be my next to the last post on Mormondialogue. My last one will be in the Social Hall. It’s been a great experience. 

Uggh...butthurt.

[juliann]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks, Juliann. This will be my next to the last post on Mormondialogue. My last one will be in the Social Hall. It’s been a great experience. 

I'm surprised that you won't accept the offer for both of us to leave the thread. 

Sorry to see you go.

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks, Juliann. This will be my next to the last post on Mormondialogue. My last one will be in the Social Hall. It’s been a great experience. 

I wish you would stay, Bernard.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Uggh...butthurt.

Lovely.

 

[Bernard Gui]

Deleted

Edited August 31, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

My PB (patriarchal blessing) said I was a peacemaker, hoping what it says will give me clout. Hoping the discussion will get noticed and adherred to but at the same time, let our differences not define our relationships/feelings for forever. And let this just be debates as friends. That's all folks! 

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Your post reminded of the time when a member from this board started a discussion forum about women's issues, now I've forgotten what it was called. Can you remember? 

And I appreciate this thread, I think as hard as it is on our friendships on this board, things need to get said.

MormonWomenConnect probably...

[ttribe]

12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Lovely.

 

Oh, puhleeeze. After all the condescension doled out by him? Color me unimpressed. 

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

MormonWomenConnect probably...

That's it! Thanks...

[bsjkki]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks, Juliann. This will be my next to the last post on Mormondialogue. My last one will be in the Social Hall. It’s been a great experience. 

That is your choice but I wish you would stay. I understand your heartfelt defense of the importance of setting and regulating modesty standards at youth activities...I know many who feel exactly like you and they are not “perverts.” Your position is/was the prevalent stance for decades. It was my stance until I raised four daughters in the church and had some terrible, eye opening experiences that changed my mind.

I remember teaching a class of young women that they should dress modestly to “help the boys.” I thought the saying  “modest is hottest”  was cute. I felt modest attire was an outward expression of a girls testimony. I had no issue with kicking kids out of Stake dances for non compliant clothing. 

It took personal “trauma” to see the real damage and change my mind about the way these principles are taught.

I have not engaged or  argued with you directly on this thread because I’ve done it before and didnt think it would be helpful.  Kind of like, “ it’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt.”

There are other topics and threads. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Oh, puhleeeze. After all the condescension doled out by him? Color me unimpressed. 

I think I'll color you unimpressive.

[ttribe]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think I'll color you unimpressive.

I hate to have to inform you I'm not concerned with your approval, or lack thereof. 

[Calm]

Bjskki deserves our respect imo and help to try to get the thread focused back on her topic.  

Edited August 31, 2018 by Calm

[ttribe]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Bjskki deserves our respect imo and help to try to get the thread focused back on her topic.  

Agreed. My apologies. 

[bsjkki]

I think this woman may have found a interesting solution. 😉 

https://qz.com/916148/switching-to-mens-clothing-taught-me-that-the-world-doesnt-want-women-to-get-too-comfortable/

“Then, several months ago, I began wearing men’s clothing. Among the major advantages I’ve discovered so far: plentiful pockets, simpler dressing decisions, and easier temperature control. But the biggest revelation for me was the huge difference in my physical and emotional comfort. I’m a forthright, intellectual woman who’s never had a problem with confidence. But I’ve spent 20 years wearing clothes designed to make me feel ill at ease—in both my body and mind.”

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I think this woman may have found a interesting solution. 😉 

https://qz.com/916148/switching-to-mens-clothing-taught-me-that-the-world-doesnt-want-women-to-get-too-comfortable/

“Then, several months ago, I began wearing men’s clothing. Among the major advantages I’ve discovered so far: plentiful pockets, simpler dressing decisions, and easier temperature control. But the biggest revelation for me was the huge difference in my physical and emotional comfort. I’m a forthright, intellectual woman who’s never had a problem with confidence. But I’ve spent 20 years wearing clothes designed to make me feel ill at ease—in both my body and mind.”

I much prefer men's pjs.  Long enough arms and legs.