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The Name of the Church

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1 minute ago, cinepro said:

 

These guys will be thrilled.

The fact that they are apparently a schismatic break-off group from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would indicate that we have at least as much claim on the name as they do.

 

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1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The fact that it is published on the updated Newsroom style guide (and that the earlier iteration has been there for years) would indicate that it is earnestly intended for external consumption as well.

Well, I guess I just assume the Brethren are realists about how likely this is to be adopted by outside organizations. 

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5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Well, I guess I just assume the Brethren are realists about how likely this is to be adopted by outside organizations. 

One characteristic that marks a prophet of God is his determination to follow and express the will of God regardless of how popular he expects it to be.

 

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13 minutes ago, cinepro said:

CFR that I have ever claimed to be "wise."

CFR that I ever sad you have ever made that claim.

 

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Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

One characteristic that marks a prophet of God is his determination to follow and express the will of God regardless of how popular he expects it to be.

I expect God is a realist, as well. If it's His will, then so be it. I'm just talking about the practical effects, not opining on the validity of President Nelson's impressions. 

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18 minutes ago, Sky said:

Why don’t we also get rid of the “I’m a Mormon” campaign and Mormon.org?  At least it would be consistent.  

When it’s inconsistently applied, it just confuses people.  

 

As I pointed out above, President Nelson said:

Quote

We have work before us to bring ourselves in harmony with His will. In recent weeks, various Church leaders and departments have initiated the necessary steps to do so. Additional information about this important matter will be made available in the coming months.

Stay tuned.

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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Just now, cinepro said:

Hopefully we'll get an additional request to only call President Nelson "President Nelson", or for short "The Prophet Russell M. Nelson", "The Lord's Anointed Seer in our Day", or "Mouthpiece of the on-high, even Russell M. Nelson."

I do love that "even" usage. As a friend of mine put it, "I am going to drive my other car today, even the PT Cruiser."

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1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

I do love that "even" usage. As a friend of mine put it, "I am going to drive my other car today, even the PT Cruiser."

President Nelson even used it in the news release :)

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/name-of-the-church

Quote

The Lord has impressed upon my mind the importance of the name He has revealed for His Church, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

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1 minute ago, cinepro said:

I wouldn't say "wrong", since I don't know that this is a situation with some sort of objective "right" and "wrong."  If this is what he wants to focus on, then great. 

But like I said, this is branding.  That might seem a little "Babylon" to our tender ears, but that is how what the Church is called operates in 2018.  It exists in our society in which people identify other groups and people, and it operates as a "brand", and the principles of branding definitely apply.  Pretending they don't is just facile.

 

I think you are neglecting or ignoring the fact that the Church is not jettisoning "Mormon" as a brand. From the Newsroom style guide:

  • Quote

    "Mormon" is correctly used in proper names such as the Book of Mormon or when used as an adjective in such historical expressions as "Mormon Trail."

     

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3 minutes ago, Sky said:

If we want to be referred to by our actual name, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Latter-day Saints, then we need to actually act like followers/decipiles of Christ.  Walk the walk, not just talk the talk, so to speak.  

 

Well said.

Quote

I don’t care if somebody calls me a Mormon.  I’m more concerned that I’m actually following Christ.  

I think it's OK that you don't care if others call you that. What is important, it seems to me, is what you yourself as a follower of Christ choose to do in implementing this guideline that President Nelson said the Lord has impressed upon his mind.

 

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2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think that's what jkwilliams was alluding to.

I was referring to cinepro's "Mouthpiece of the on-high, even Russell M. Nelson." But it is a happy coincidence that it's in the press release. It's a usage I almost never see outside of an LDS context.

Edited by jkwilliams

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12 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I wouldn't say "wrong", since I don't know that this is a situation with some sort of objective "right" and "wrong."  If this is what he wants to focus on, then great. 

But like I said, this is branding.  That might seem a little "Babylon" to our tender ears, but that is how what the Church is called operates in 2018.  It exists in our society in which people identify other groups and people, and it operates as a "brand", and the principles of branding definitely apply.  Pretending they don't is just facile.

The oddest thing to me is the request that the Church be referred to as "the restored Church of Jesus Christ".  First of all, that's really not very short. 

Second, while it may seem to make perfect sense to the guys sitting in the COB, I think it might sound a little odd to the rest of the world.  It would be like Apple saying "when referring to the company, please call us "The Apple Corporation of Cupertino, CA", or for short, "The best company that just happened to invent the PC, smartphone, and Tablet computing."  I think most peoples' reaction would be to just keep calling them "Apple."

Hopefully we'll get an additional request to only call President Nelson "President Nelson", or for short, in the second reference he may be  "The Prophet Russell M. Nelson".  The third reference should be to "The Lord's Anointed Seer in our Day", and fourth and subsequent references should be to "Mouthpiece of the on-high, even Russell M. Nelson."

Lotta respect going on here.

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13 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I was referring to cinepro's "Mouthpiece of the on-high, even Russell M. Nelson." But it is a happy coincidence that it's in the press release. It's a usage I almost never see outside of an LDS context.

Well, then you apparently missed his own allusion to the official statement from President Nelson.

It is a reflection of scriptural phrasing. I'll try to find an example.

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3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Well, then you apparently missed his own allusion to the official statement from President Nelson.

It is a reflection of scriptural phrasing. I'll try to find an example.

Apparently I did miss it. But yes, "even" following a comma is a scriptural construction. It just always sounds affected to me when someone uses it.

Edited by jkwilliams

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6 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Apparently I did miss it. 

Here's one. Doctrine and Covenants 1:16, "...shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall."

I'll post others as I find them.

ETA: Here are others:

Doctrine and Covenants 5:17, "... they shall be born of me, even of water and of the Spirit."

Doctrine and Covenants 17:2, "And it is by your faith that you shall obtain a view of them, even by that faith which was held by the prophets of old."

Doctrine and Covenants 51:4, "... a writing that shall secure unto him his portion, that he shall hold it, even this right and this inheritance in the church, ..."

John 3:13, "... he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven"

Acts 2:39, "... to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

Acts 9:17, "... Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me."

Genesis 21:10, "... shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."

 

 

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

Here's one. Doctrine and Covenants 1:16, "...shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall."

I'll post others as I find them.

Yes, it occurs fairly often in scripture. Just still sounds like an affectation to me when someone uses it now. But that's just me.

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28 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Yes, it occurs fairly often in scripture. Just still sounds like an affectation to me when someone uses it now. But that's just me.

I can understand how some might view it that way.

On the other hand, for one who professes to speak in the name of God, it does not necessarily seem affected to me that he would on occasion speak in a voice that is imitative or allusive to the terminology, phrasing, sentence construction, etc., of holy writ.

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think it's OK that you don't care if others call you that. What is important, it seems to me, is what you yourself as a follower of Christ choose to do in implementing this guideline that President Nelson said the Lord has impressed upon his mind.

I wonder if we can just call ourselves Christians. “Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” is so long. I hate saying it. Even saying “I’m a Latter-day Saint” is a bit much for my mouth.

Any precedent there?  Do LDS church leaders frown when we just call ourselves Christians?

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2 hours ago, Sky said:

• Please avoid the term “Mormonism.”  It is inaccurate.  When a shortened version is needed, please use “The Church of Jesus Christ” or the “restored Church of Jesus Christ”.

That will be difficult because, to me, "Mormonism" encompasses so much more than "The Church of Jesus Christ".  To me, The Church of Jesus Christ refers to the organization and it's official and correlated teachings, whereas "Mormonism" (in my mind) encompasses the culture, folk doctrines, and non-official personal beliefs and latitudes espoused by individual members which belong to the organization.  It is not simply what is taught officially, but what is practiced individually.  While not officially recognized by the church, these latitudes in belief are allowed to the members by the church and therefore fall under the umbrella and practice of "Mormonism", but do not necessarily fall under the umbrella of "The Church of Jesus Christ".   So how are we to reference the much wider net of Mormonism without using the word?

Edited by pogi
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5 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Any precedent there?  Do LDS church leaders frown when we just call ourselves Christians?

I don't think they frown upon it.  It just isn't very specific. 

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