Talking or living?

[Avatar4321]

23 hours ago, Rain said:

Are you thinking about talking about it in church or on this board or just in general?

Everywhere I guess

[clarkgoble]

1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

I’m not sure I’ve heard a good speaker in sacrament meeting in a while. Don’t get me wrong the talks are always edifying. And the Spirit is often present. But I don’t know that I’d call any of the speakers good

Yeah. I agree. That's not really a problem either. Sincere and full of the spirit is better than a good talented speaker any day. I often worry that people get caught up in good polished talks and miss that it doesn't entail it being correct. The so-called Ted Talk syndrome. This is I worry a big problem with more polished speaking forums around the church - sophistry is all too often an ever present danger. Give me simple people speaking from the heart and bearing the spirit any day over the more professional speakers.

[Calm]

12 hours ago, Rain said:

Here are some things I learned in my just serve calling and past experience:

- Sometimes we talk a lot about serving, but we really want to serve in only ways we want to serve. 

- We want to do it spontaneously. Unless we are giving it to the youth to do as a project then we don't want to put effort into something we need to plan for. The favorite Just Serve project in this area only requires that you sign up a number of people coming, then you come for about 2 hours and leave. It's easy and it is fun.  And now the specialists in this area have a problem getting people to consider any other service project.

- That some people feel like any service in callings is not actually service or that many people think all callings are service and they don't have time for more. 

- That when you use creativity you can solve some of the concerns in your calling through service. People look at service as another thing, when sometimes service can be the tool that helps you with the things you already have.

-if there is service we don't want to do then we give it to the youth.  It is rare in church that youth and adult organizations will do service together unless it is tied specifically like the priests blessing the sacrament and the organist playing the specific hymn. 

- People don't know how to talk about their own service.  Most will think about scriptures that say to do service in secret and those who do not have their reward - missing the part of the scripture that talks about doing service to be seen of men. And others don't think about lighting your candle to glorify God. It is ok to talk about your own service as long as you are not trying to be seen of men and are trying to glorify God.

- Because of the "service in secret" it can be difficult to get other people interested in doing service - they don't understand why they are needed or even that they are needed.  Often they don't understand there is a need at all. 

- Other people often make those who serve uncomfortable because instead of glorifying God they adulate the people serving. SouthernMo wonders if we adulate speakers more than servers and I have to say not really. We adulate those things we are aware of. When people know someone is serving then they tend to tell them "you are such a good person for serving" which makes the server uncomfortable and often want to do the service in secret more. If a person is serving in secret then we won't know they have done something to adulate.

So I do think we need to serve more and talk about it less, but more I think we need to change how we talk about it. We need to share how God has blessed our lives through serving others. We need to talk about how God has blessed people who were served because of the inspiration he gives those serving. 

One note - when you talk with someone who you find out is serving, like I mentioned above, don't tell them what a good person they are. Ask them about the needs of the people being served.  Ask them about the organization. Ask how you can help. Ask what inspired the person to get involved. Ask them what their favorite part is. Ask them about specific times when they felt the work was guided by God. This way they can comfortably get the needed info out and glorify God without feeling they have to quick step away from being seen of men. 

 

[Avatar4321]

8 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Yeah. I agree. That's not really a problem either. Sincere and full of the spirit is better than a good talented speaker any day. I often worry that people get caught up in good polished talks and miss that it doesn't entail it being correct. The so-called Ted Talk syndrome. This is I worry a big problem with more polished speaking forums around the church - sophistry is all too often an ever present danger. Give me simple people speaking from the heart and bearing the spirit any day over the more professional speakers.

Does make me wonder whether we could impact the world more if we became good speakers. I know God can use a good speaker and a bad speaker just the same, but isn't one of our duties to be as good as we can be with a promise that the Lord will bless us?

[Rain]

On 8/9/2018 at 4:59 AM, Avatar4321 said:

Does make me wonder whether we could impact the world more if we became good speakers. I know God can use a good speaker and a bad speaker just the same, but isn't one of our duties to be as good as we can be with a promise that the Lord will bless us?

I haven't really seen this with giving talks specifically,  but the church puts out a lot of stuff on teaching better. I always find it funny when someone asks, "I'm a first time RS/SS/EQ teacher. Would you give me some tips please?" and nearly everyone responds with "don't worry. Just teach with the Spirit."  And if someone actually does give tips, even tips given by the church, then they are told that all those things don't matter and that you need to think about having the Spirit more.

What they are not understanding is that part of preparing with the Spirit may be learning those tips and sometimes those tips are the thing that helps the student learn by the Spirit. You don't have to be a fantastic teacher for others to feel the Spirit, but I don't think you will have the full amount of teaching with the Spirit if you ignore or disdain the how to teach tips that the Lord gives us through the church or other people.

Since speaking in church is a form of teaching then this applies to that as well.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Rain

[HappyJackWagon]

15 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

I am certainly not an expert leader, and appreciate the suggestions.  I also don't want to convey that I think presidency meetings are worthless.

At least in my last calling as EQ president, I didn't feel inspired to do so.  Presidency meetings take time, and I'd rather ask men to take time away from their families to serve.

Yes, the problem is when the meeting is held instead of serving.  I HATE the feeling of going to two meetings in a row having done nothing in between.  I have no scripture to back this up, but I feel like a Pharisee.  All the best run presidency meetings in the world do literally nothing (no exaggeration) unless we are serving individuals between meetings.

If you're working as an individual you can just get up and go and do whatever you want. But if you are leading a group it takes more effort than that. It's not just about what you can do individually. It's about accomplishing goals with others. It's about working together in concert. That kind of planning and organization only happens in meetings, unless one is a dictator and simply gives orders to others, but I doubt that will be accepted for very long.

[Rain]

On 8/8/2018 at 3:34 PM, SouthernMo said:

I am certainly not an expert leader, and appreciate the suggestions.  I also don't want to convey that I think presidency meetings are worthless.

At least in my last calling as EQ president, I didn't feel inspired to do so.  Presidency meetings take time, and I'd rather ask men to take time away from their families to serve.

Yes, the problem is when the meeting is held instead of serving.  I HATE the feeling of going to two meetings in a row having done nothing in between.  I have no scripture to back this up, but I feel like a Pharisee.  All the best run presidency meetings in the world do literally nothing (no exaggeration) unless we are serving individuals between meetings.

If nothing is happening in between then I would say those are actually poorly run meetings. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Rain

[SouthernMo]

44 minutes ago, Rain said:

If nothing is happening in between then I would day those are actually poorly run meetings. 

That’s a possibility. Or, people just get busy. We can all leave meetings with the best intentions, but we’re human, with limited time and multiple priorities. We get distracted.

[SouthernMo]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

If nothing is happening in between then I would day those are actually poorly run meetings. 

In thinking more about your comment that the problem lies in how poorly run the meetings are, I disagree more.

When we leave General Conference, we have instruction, and counsel, but little comes of it. While I cannot provide a citation because the source is confidential, when President Hinckley made a push for temple attendance in the mid 2000’s, temple attendance went up 1%. In a meeting with the 12, he lamented that he might go down in history as the least obeyed president of the church in history.

Is General Conference and are General authorities’ messages run poorly?  Or, are we ‘saints’ guilty of enjoying words, but taking little action?

[Rain]

1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

That’s a possibility. Or, people just get busy. We can all leave meetings with the best intentions, but we’re human, with limited time and multiple priorities. We get distracted.

 

24 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

In thinking more about your comment that the problem lies in how poorly run the meetings are, I disagree more.

When we leave General Conference, we have instruction, and counsel, but little comes of it. While I cannot provide a citation because the source is confidential, when President Hinckley made a push for temple attendance in the mid 2000’s, temple attendance went up 1%. In a meeting with the 12, he lamented that he might go down in history as the least obeyed president of the church in history.

Is General Conference and are General authorities’ messages run poorly?  Or, are we ‘saints’ guilty of enjoying words, but taking little action?

General conference, sacrament  etc are a different kind of meeting than a leadership planning meeting.

Yes, we all have times when we choose to do things other than what we intended to do, but if this is happening consistantly in a leadership planning meeting then the leader is missing something.

President Hinckley's story may show what happens poorly with conference etc, but if the apostles had their meeting and only 1% of the things the apostles intended to do were being done, I'm pretty sure that he would have been changing how the meeting was run in some way, but I suspect, from what I've heard,  that most leadership planning meetings are not run as well as the apostle's one is. 

[Rain]

On 8/8/2018 at 12:59 PM, SouthernMo said:

This could be true.

Can you give me an example of something that we could have done to bring others closer to Christ that could only have been accomplished in a presidency meeting?  Put slightly differently, what do you specifically mean by 'magnified'?

I was in one presidency where we really grew to love each other in those meetings.  At one point one of the presidency had a serious crises that many would could consider embarrassing. The love that had built in those meetings between us helped her to feel confident and she was able to accept our help without negative feelings.

But that wasn't everything.  I noticed that the love we grew for each other in those meetings helped us to feel greater love for the other sisters in our ward as well.  This in turn helped them to turn to us for help. 

I know that is not anything specific, but I've found that somehow, kneeling together in prayer in those meetings etc helped us. 

I've found that in many leadership meetings they are a review of the calendar or people. Rarely is the leader effective in leading the planning part. When people don't like those meetings it is often because the meeting is missing an effective collaborative plan.

[SouthernMo]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

I was in one presidency where we really grew to love each other in those meetings.  At one point one of the presidency had a serious crises that many would could consider embarrassing. The love that had built in those meetings between us helped her to feel confident and she was able to accept our help without negative feelings.

But that wasn't everything.  I noticed that the love we grew for each other in those meetings helped us to feel greater love for the other sisters in our ward as well.  This in turn helped them to turn to us for help. 

I know that is not anything specific, but I've found that somehow, kneeling together in prayer in those meetings etc helped us. 

I've found that in many leadership meetings they are a review of the calendar or people. Rarely is the leader effective in leading the planning part. When people don't like those meetings it is often because the meeting is missing an effective collaborative plan.

I can see this. The leadership meetings are less about planning and organizing, but just another way to minister to each other.

What a great experience!

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

I can see this. The leadership meetings are less about planning and organizing, but just another way to minister to each other.

What a great experience!

Many times you can and should minister to people without planning. We get the example of the good Samaritan with this.

There are times however, when planning helps you better minister. What I am talking about is not just ministering withing the meeting, but the plan part as well.

 I am with an charitable organization who helps others. It was started by a wonderful woman who saw a need and then did her best to fill it. She is one of the best examples of ministering I know. Not only does she minister to the needy, but to every volunteer and every donator that she comes in contact with. 

However, she was missing things. There are so many details in this and it constantly changes. She brought on someone who is highly organized to help her. The plans of that organized woman helped them help many more needy. 

I love these women and they accomplish some amazing things, but I have found from working beside them that when they minister as the need arises and don't really come together to plan, but do it by a text here and a call there that there are vital pieces that volunteers, the needy, and people we work with end up missing. Things that could easily be solved with short, effective, collaborative planning meetings held consistently. 

Like I said, I love these women. I know how very hard they work. I think they just don't understand how much easier and more joyful things could be if they took the time to plan in those meetings.

This is the kind of thing I think about with church leadership meetings. When you come together collaboratively with the Lord under an effective leader then vital pieces are less often lost. Vital pieces that help us minister.