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Avatar4321

Talking or living?

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Sometimes I feel like we spend too much time talking about doing good rather than just getting to work and living it. Anyone else have that issue?

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Isn’t this post fueling the problem?

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Sometimes I think we define doing good too narrowly.  There's more to doing good than charitable service and brotherly kindness.

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Then wake up

And do something more

Than dream of your mansions above

Doing good is a pleasure

A joy beyond measure

A blessing of duty and love

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2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Sometimes I feel like we spend too much time talking about doing good rather than just getting to work and living it. Anyone else have that issue?

Are you thinking about talking about it in church or on this board or just in general?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Rain said:

Are you thinking about talking about it in church or on this board or just in general?

I think teaching this concept verbally is automatically rank hypocrisy. We should see what the Savior says.

28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Well, he started hinting at it but his advice is to either join the IRS or set up a professional escort profile on Craigslist so you can enter the Kingdom of God. Or preferably, both.

Edited by The Nehor

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4 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Sometimes I feel like we spend too much time talking about doing good rather than just getting to work and living it. Anyone else have that issue?

I think it can happen. I think in any ward there's a group who tends to be takers always looking for help but rarely giving it. But every ward I've been in there's usually a reasonably large group who go out of their way to serve others. But yeah, just looking at how hard it is to get people to come to service projects, seeing how the same people tend to come, and how many people asking for help rarely help with callings or service, it's easy to get a bit discouraged.

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5 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

But yeah, just looking at how hard it is to get people to come to service projects, seeing how the same people tend to come, and how many people asking for help rarely help with callings or service, it's easy to get a bit discouraged.

In my ward, there is a group that usually shows up to do things. We refer to them as STP-same ten people.

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Completely agree.  I'm going to issue a pre-apology for perhaps getting too passionate about this subject.

At a ward council training not long ago, a member of our stake presidency was teaching about how to make presidency meetings more effective.  In closing, he told us that the most spiritual experiences he's ever had have been at presidency meetings.  I nearly walked out of the room in shock that "talking" and "planning" were the summit of this brother's spiritual experiences.

I used to be EQ president, and I never held a presidency meeting.  We just went out visiting people - anyone who we didn't know or needed to feel love.  Those led to far more spiritual experiences than any meeting.

On another note, how often do we adulate good speakers in our church?  Do we perhaps over-index on the value of speaking, rather than praise the virtue of those who serve, serve, serve (we all know these less-noticed individuals)?

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1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

Completely agree.  I'm going to issue a pre-apology for perhaps getting too passionate about this subject.

At a ward council training not long ago, a member of our stake presidency was teaching about how to make presidency meetings more effective.  In closing, he told us that the most spiritual experiences he's ever had have been at presidency meetings.  I nearly walked out of the room in shock that "talking" and "planning" were the summit of this brother's spiritual experiences.

I used to be EQ president, and I never held a presidency meeting.  We just went out visiting people - anyone who we didn't know or needed to feel love.  Those led to far more spiritual experiences than any meeting.

On another note, how often do we adulate good speakers in our church?  Do we perhaps over-index on the value of speaking, rather than praise the virtue of those who serve, serve, serve (we all know these less-noticed individuals)?

This reminds me of the time my ward and stake got to skip church because of a terrible wind storm that knocked down huge trees and left destruction in it's wake. Everyone walked or drove from home to home and started picking up branches and cutting up large trees that had toppled over and then anyone with a truck hauled it all to a designated place, all this on Sunday. It was incredible, the experiences felt while doing service. No one mandated that people leave their homes and help, they just did it. 

On your comment of the meetings being spiritual, it brought to mind some RS presidency meetings that I spent several years going to, I did enjoy the spiritual thought time at the beginning. And loved the visits made to the sisters as well. This new ministering has got me stumped though, since apparently it can be done within 3 months in whatever capacity you can. I guess I'm missing some more structure, because so far nothings happening...my companion hasn't reached out, I know I need to call her. And my ministering sisters haven't made any visits. :(

But I definitely need to walk the talk....

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Here are some things I learned in my just serve calling and past experience:

- Sometimes we talk a lot about serving, but we really want to serve in only ways we want to serve. 

- We want to do it spontaneously. Unless we are giving it to the youth to do as a project then we don't want to put effort into something we need to plan for. The favorite Just Serve project in this area only requires that you sign up a number of people coming, then you come for about 2 hours and leave. It's easy and it is fun.  And now the specialists in this area have a problem getting people to consider any other service project.

- That some people feel like any service in callings is not actually service or that many people think all callings are service and they don't have time for more. 

- That when you use creativity you can solve some of the concerns in your calling through service. People look at service as another thing, when sometimes service can be the tool that helps you with the things you already have.

-if there is service we don't want to do then we give it to the youth.  It is rare in church that youth and adult organizations will do service together unless it is tied specifically like the priests blessing the sacrament and the organist playing the specific hymn. 

- People don't know how to talk about their own service.  Most will think about scriptures that say to do service in secret and those who do not have their reward - missing the part of the scripture that talks about doing service to be seen of men. And others don't think about lighting your candle to glorify God. It is ok to talk about your own service as long as you are not trying to be seen of men and are trying to glorify God.

- Because of the "service in secret" it can be difficult to get other people interested in doing service - they don't understand why they are needed or even that they are needed.  Often they don't understand there is a need at all. 

- Other people often make those who serve uncomfortable because instead of glorifying God they adulate the people serving. SouthernMo wonders if we adulate speakers more than servers and I have to say not really. We adulate those things we are aware of. When people know someone is serving then they tend to tell them "you are such a good person for serving" which makes the server uncomfortable and often want to do the service in secret more. If a person is serving in secret then we won't know they have done something to adulate.

So I do think we need to serve more and talk about it less, but more I think we need to change how we talk about it. We need to share how God has blessed our lives through serving others. We need to talk about how God has blessed people who were served because of the inspiration he gives those serving. 

One note - when you talk with someone who you find out is serving, like I mentioned above, don't tell them what a good person they are. Ask them about the needs of the people being served.  Ask them about the organization. Ask how you can help. Ask what inspired the person to get involved. Ask them what their favorite part is. Ask them about specific times when they felt the work was guided by God. This way they can comfortably get the needed info out and glorify God without feeling they have to quick step away from being seen of men. 

 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

....This new ministering has got me stumped though, since apparently it can be done within 3 months in whatever capacity you can. I guess I'm missing some more structure, because so far nothings happening...my companion hasn't reached out, I know I need to call her. And my ministering sisters haven't made any visits. :(

But I definitely need to walk the talk....

The big thing with it is to serve the person in the way they need it. There are times in some people's lIves whey really only need and want a text every once in awhile to see how things are going. 

One of my sisters really doesn't want visits right now. Another needs rides to the doctor nearly every week because she has the beginning stages of dementia and needs someone who can be aware of what is going on at the doctor.

So people no longer need to worry about what counts and just get in and just do what needs to be done.

You can do it Tacenda! Call your companion. The answers to your prayers may come through this. ☺️

 

Edited by Rain

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Rain said:

The big thing with it is to serve the person in the way they need it. There are times in some people's lIves whey really only need and want a text every once in awhile to see how things are going. 

One of my sisters really doesn't want visits right now. Another needs rides to the doctor nearly every week because she has the beginning stages of dementia and needs someone who can be aware of what is going on at the doctor.

So people no longer need to worry about what counts and just get in and just do what needs to be done.

You can do it Tacenda! Call your companion. The answers to your prayers may come through this. ☺️

 

Rain, I needed that, made the call and she wasn't there but I left a message. She sings in the Tab choir, I wonder if they've been on tour. Thanks for the push to call her. I was so close to just throwing in the towel and getting out of my calling in ministering. 

I wish I wasn't afraid to just show up on someone's doorstep or give them a call out of the blue. But like the OP says, it's got to be done and not just talking of doing it, but doing. This isn't to you Rain, just wanted to not hog or derail with my personal goings on, which I tend to do way too much.  

Edited by Tacenda

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3 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

On another note, how often do we adulate good speakers in our church?  Do we perhaps over-index on the value of speaking, rather than praise the virtue of those who serve, serve, serve (we all know these less-noticed individuals)?

Can't say I've ever heard good speakers adulated. Most people don't seem to care honestly. Maybe some of the people in the whole Mormon equivalent of TED talk circuit like Education Week. But I have my own problems with that. However in a ward level I think people pay more attention to who is actually trying to help other people. At least that's been my experience. I've never heard a testimony where someone thanks great speakers. I've heard lots and lots of testimonies thanking people in the ward who helped them in times of trial or need.

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43 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Can't say I've ever heard good speakers adulated. Most people don't seem to care honestly. Maybe some of the people in the whole Mormon equivalent of TED talk circuit like Education Week. But I have my own problems with that. However in a ward level I think people pay more attention to who is actually trying to help other people. At least that's been my experience. I've never heard a testimony where someone thanks great speakers. I've heard lots and lots of testimonies thanking people in the ward who helped them in times of trial or need.

That's awesome.  Glad you're having a different experience than me!

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

I used to be EQ president, and I never held a presidency meeting.  We just went out visiting people - anyone who we didn't know or needed to feel love.

How did you know or decide who to visit?  When did you talk about what the people in your quorum were needed or what more you could do to help them?  When did you sit down together and invite the Lord to be part of your council and ask for His input on your decisions?

Edited by ksfisher
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1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

How did you know or decide who to visit?  When did you talk about what the people in your quorum were needed or what more you could do to help them?  When did you sit down together and invite the Lord to be part of your council and ask for His input on your decisions?

We just each had the ward and quorum membership rosters, and visited people as we felt guided by the spirit.

When people had needs that required discussion, we called or texted each other when needed (rather than waiting until the next “meeting”). More often, we each just directly called the person or people who could help the individual.  We would each take care of “problems” without others getting involved or even knowing about the problem, sometimes.

I guess we just prayed individually. We didn’t take time to come together and pray to find out what we as a group should do. We just each followed the spirit individually, and shared stories with each other while we ministered that commiserated or uplifted.

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14 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

We just each had the ward and quorum membership rosters, and visited people as we felt guided by the spirit.

When people had needs that required discussion, we called or texted each other when needed (rather than waiting until the next “meeting”). More often, we each just directly called the person or people who could help the individual.  We would each take care of “problems” without others getting involved or even knowing about the problem, sometimes.

I guess we just prayed individually. We didn’t take time to come together and pray to find out what we as a group should do. We just each followed the spirit individually, and shared stories with each other while we ministered that commiserated or uplifted.

I think everything you did was good, but I believe that what you did could have been magnified by presidency meetings.  Yes, if something needs doing it should be done and not waiting on until a meeting can happen. 

The way I thing about it is that proper administration (which presidency meetings are a part of) magnifies out ability to minister. 

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29 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

The way I thing about it is that proper administration (which presidency meetings are a part of) magnifies out ability to minister. 

This could be true.

Can you give me an example of something that we could have done to bring others closer to Christ that could only have been accomplished in a presidency meeting?  Put slightly differently, what do you specifically mean by 'magnified'?

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4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Rain, I needed that, made the call and she wasn't there but I left a message. She sings in the Tab choir, I wonder if they've been on tour. Thanks for the push to call her. I was so close to just throwing in the towel and getting out of my calling in ministering. 

I wish I wasn't afraid to just show up on someone's doorstep or give them a call out of the blue. But like the OP says, it's got to be done and not just talking of doing it, but doing. This isn't to you Rain, just wanted to not hog or derail with my personal goings on, which I tend to do way too much.  

Good job! If she doesn't call back then don't be afraid to go do it on your own. Thete are some good experiences I have had when my partner want willing or able to go and I'm glad I didn't miss them waiting.  

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11 hours ago, Prof said:

In my ward, there is a group that usually shows up to do things. We refer to them as STP-same ten people.

I was always proud to be one of the ten...same od...don't worry...STP will get'r done.😋

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29 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

This could be true.

Can you give me an example of something that we could have done to bring others closer to Christ that could only have been accomplished in a presidency meeting?  Put slightly differently, what do you specifically mean by 'magnified'?

It's not so much that you can do things you couldn't otherwise, you can have conversations over the phone or by text, it's that many conversations are better face to face.  This is especially true when you're talking about a president, two counselors, and a secretary.  It's difficult to get every ones input and insight by phone or text.  A fact to face conversation is more appropriate.  A face to face presidency meeting also allows us to invite the Lord to be part of our council.  In these ways the strengths and abilities of one member of the presidency are magnified and become the strengths and abilities of the entire presidency.  We come together and become unified.  The work that is planned and carried out may be accomplished separately, but the decisions are made in unity.  I find face to face a much better means counseling together than by phone or text.

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1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

We just each had the ward and quorum membership rosters, and visited people as we felt guided by the spirit.

When people had needs that required discussion, we called or texted each other when needed (rather than waiting until the next “meeting”). More often, we each just directly called the person or people who could help the individual.  We would each take care of “problems” without others getting involved or even knowing about the problem, sometimes.

I guess we just prayed individually. We didn’t take time to come together and pray to find out what we as a group should do. We just each followed the spirit individually, and shared stories with each other while we ministered that commiserated or uplifted.

IMO- organization and planning can help maximize efforts. Otherwise it's a chaotic, seat-of-the pants kind of thing and for someone like me, that's the worst. A well run meeting can do loads of good. It creates vision, rallies the troops, inspires and directs. The problems arise when we think that the meeting is the end all. It's the beginning and beginning is very important.

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1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

It's not so much that you can do things you couldn't otherwise, you can have conversations over the phone or by text, it's that many conversations are better face to face.  This is especially true when you're talking about a president, two counselors, and a secretary.  It's difficult to get every ones input and insight by phone or text.  A fact to face conversation is more appropriate.  A face to face presidency meeting also allows us to invite the Lord to be part of our council.  In these ways the strengths and abilities of one member of the presidency are magnified and become the strengths and abilities of the entire presidency.  We come together and become unified.  The work that is planned and carried out may be accomplished separately, but the decisions are made in unity.  I find face to face a much better means counseling together than by phone or text.

I am certainly not an expert leader, and appreciate the suggestions.  I also don't want to convey that I think presidency meetings are worthless.

At least in my last calling as EQ president, I didn't feel inspired to do so.  Presidency meetings take time, and I'd rather ask men to take time away from their families to serve.

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

IMO- organization and planning can help maximize efforts. Otherwise it's a chaotic, seat-of-the pants kind of thing and for someone like me, that's the worst. A well run meeting can do loads of good. It creates vision, rallies the troops, inspires and directs. The problems arise when we think that the meeting is the end all. It's the beginning and beginning is very important.

Yes, the problem is when the meeting is held instead of serving.  I HATE the feeling of going to two meetings in a row having done nothing in between.  I have no scripture to back this up, but I feel like a Pharisee.  All the best run presidency meetings in the world do literally nothing (no exaggeration) unless we are serving individuals between meetings.

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8 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Can't say I've ever heard good speakers adulated. Most people don't seem to care honestly. Maybe some of the people in the whole Mormon equivalent of TED talk circuit like Education Week. But I have my own problems with that. However in a ward level I think people pay more attention to who is actually trying to help other people. At least that's been my experience. I've never heard a testimony where someone thanks great speakers. I've heard lots and lots of testimonies thanking people in the ward who helped them in times of trial or need.

I’m not sure I’ve heard a good speaker in sacrament meeting in a while. Don’t get me wrong the talks are always edifying. And the Spirit is often present. But I don’t know that I’d call any of the speakers good

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