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poptart

Would you be ok with a non-white Jesus?

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So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

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Sure. Of course.

I think there's a natural tendency for people to create the image of God in art that matches their likeness so that they can better relate, but like you say, Jesus wasn't a fair skinned, muscular, blue eyed catalog model.

Edited by HappyJackWagon
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Great point. We need to ensure our expectations don’t blind our recognition of the Savior.

When He speaks in General Conference one day, will he wear a suit, or robes and sandals?

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12 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Sure. Of course.

I think there's a natural tendency for people to create the image of God in art that matches their likeness so that they can better relate, but like you say, Jesus wasn't a fair skinned, muscular, blue eyed catalog model.

 

3 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Great point. We need to ensure our expectations don’t blind our recognition of the Savior.

When He speaks in General Conference one day, will he wear a suit, or robes and sandals?

You both get a high five and a fist bump.

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1 hour ago, poptart said:

So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

Jesus was jew.  Of course he wasn't a northern european.  Artists who draw him that way is just artists taking inspiration from people around them.  It's not historically accurate at all, but honestly I don't feel skin/eye color particularly matters. 

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1 hour ago, poptart said:

So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

Of course.  In fact, he was non-white, being genetically Semitic.  You could also chuckle when you saw the African Jesus renderings that have been made.  A friend of mine of African descent was a Christian, and kept a painting of Jesus with African features on his living room wall.  I'm pretty sure he knew that Jesus was a Jew (and thus not African), but if he felt more comfortable imagining the Lord as looking a bit like himself, I don't see anything wrong with it.

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Sure. Of course.

I think there's a natural tendency for people to create the image of God in art that matches their likeness so that they can better relate, but like you say, Jesus wasn't a fair skinned, muscular, blue eyed catalog model.

Here's an image of Jesus as imagined by Chinese artists:

ChineseJesus.jpg

 

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Here's an interesting article on the subject from Wikipedia: Race and Appearance of Jesus.

The race and appearance of Jesus has been a topic of discussion since the days of early Christianity. There are no firsthand accounts of Jesus' physical appearance, although some authors have suggested that physical descriptions may have been removed from the Bible at some point to emphasize his universality. Most scholars consequently believe that Jesus was similar in appearance to the modern inhabitants of the Middle East, due to the Bible (and other historical accounts) unequivocally referring to him as a Galilean Israelite.

Various theories about the race of Jesus have been proposed and debated. By the Middle Ages, a number of documents, generally of unknown or questionable origin, had been composed and were circulating with details of the appearance of Jesus. Now these documents are mostly considered forgeries. By the 19th century, theories that Jesus was non-Semitic were being developed, with writers suggesting he was variously white, black, Indian, or some other race. However, as in other cases of the assignment of race to Biblical individuals, these claims have been mostly pseudoscientific, based on cultural stereotypes, ethnocentrism, and societal trends rather than on scientific analysis or historical method.

Many people have a mental image of Jesus drawn from artistic depictions. A wide range of depictions have appeared over the two millennia since Jesus's death, often influenced by cultural settings, political circumstances and theological contexts. Depiction of Jesus in art of the first Christian centuries gradually standardized his appearance with a short beard. These images are often based on second- or third-hand interpretations of spurious sources, and are generally not historically accurate.

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I love this song by Alfred Burt: (We actually were allowed to sing it in public school back in the day...)

Some children see him
Lily white
The baby Jesus
Born this night
Some children see him
Lily white
With tresses soft
And fair

Some children see him
Bronzed and brown
The Lord of heav'n
To Earth come down
Some children see him
Bronzed and brown
With dark
And heavy hair

Some children see him
Almond-eyed
This savior whom
We kneel beside
Some children see him
Almond-eyed
With skin
Of yellow hue

Some children see him
Dark as they
Sweet mary's son
To whom we pray
Some children see him
Dark as they
And, ah
They love him, too

The children
In each diff'rent place
Will see
The baby Jesus' face
Like theirs
But bright
With heav'nly grace
And filled
With holy light

O lay aside
Each earthly thing
And with thy heart
As offering
Come worship now
The infant king
'Tis love
That's born tonight

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2 hours ago, poptart said:

So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

Would you be okay with a white Jesus?

Typically the reason people usually ask this question is because they are not.

Yet another confusion between historicism and spirituality, as if it matters.

Did you know the word "Aryan" derives from the same root as" Iranian"?

So if Jesus was Aryan he would look Middle Eastern.

We are all shades of brown some darker than others. No one is actually "white" unless you're an albino, then of course there are African albinos.

The whole designation of "white" is pretty much a distinction without a difference.

Edited by mfbukowski
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2 hours ago, poptart said:

So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

I would be more than OK.

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from a post I wrote last year around Christmas time.

 

http://www.churchistrue.com/blog/christmas-for-the-deconstructed/

 

I’ve been reading The Zealot by Reza Aslan. He’s a New Testament scholar, and this book ignores the divine aspects and describes Jesus as a Jewish zealot who was more prone to violence as a solution. It’s interesting, and it very well may be accurate. But this isn’t my Jesus.  You see this picture floating around that is meant to be a more accurate description of what the historical Jesus would look like.

realistic-depiction-of-Jesus

 

My kids asked me if Jesus came, should we expect him to look more like that? NO! 1,000 times, NO! At least not to you, white kids growing up in Mormon Utah.

I hope you’ve heard the great Christmas song by James Taylor, Some Children See Him.

Some children see Him lily white,
The baby Jesus born this night.
Some children see Him lily white,
With tresses soft and fair.
Some children see Him bronzed and brown,
The Lord of heav’n to earth come down.
Some children see Him bronzed and brown,
With dark and heavy hair.
Some children see Him almond-eyed,
This Savior whom we kneel beside.
Some children see Him almond-eyed,
With skin of yellow hue.
Some children see Him dark as they,
Sweet Mary’s Son to whom we pray.
Some children see him dark as they,
And, ah! they love Him, too!
The children in each different place
Will see the baby Jesus’ face
Like theirs, but bright with heavenly grace,
And filled with holy light.
O lay aside each earthly thing
And with thy heart as offering,
Come worship now the infant King.
‘Tis love that’s born tonight!

I cheered recently when I read of the black LDS family that tossed out their pictures of white Jesus. The historical Jesus is not the point. What’s important is the meaning of the historical Jesus. Which is a representation of God descended to Earth so we might relate to him.

hqdefault.jpg

 

 

If God came to me, I’m sure he would come in the arguably kitschy form of a Greg Olsen or Liz Lemon Swindle painting.

liz-lemon-swindle-jesus

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2 hours ago, poptart said:

So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

The appearance of Jesus is based mainly on his genetics.  Only half of his DNA came from Mary.  The other half came from somewhere else.  I don't think anyone can know what his skin tone was and it really does not matter.

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3 hours ago, poptart said:

So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

what is "white"? The United States of America considers some dark skinned people "white". So what is the standards for "white"? Forensic Anthropology uses three groupings, Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid,  these are classifications of skulls. 

 

This from the United States Census Bureua

The U.S. Census Bureau must adhere to the 1997 Office of Management and Budget (OMB) standards on race and ethnicity which guide the Census Bureau in classifying written responses to the race question:

White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

American Indian or Alaska Native – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Edited by provoman

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3 hours ago, poptart said:

So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

Don't really know what Jesus would have looked like being as how He is the literal Son of the Father as to the flesh as well as the spirit. It does not matter to me however his visage appears. What does matter is what He has done for us. It also does not matter to me if another culture pictures Jesus as having features similar to theirs.

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3 hours ago, poptart said:

................................... I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

They would likely apostatize.

Jesus belonged to the tribe of Judah, many of whom can be seen in this Jerusalem flashmob at Hadassah Hospital.  That is what Jews look like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzwWskM4hN8 .

 

Edited by Robert F. Smith
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#NotMyJesus

Edited by Rivers

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Why in a post OD2 world are you so friggin' race obsessed?

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I am much more concerned with the divine nature he inherited from His Father's side, than the genetics He inherited from his mother.

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4 hours ago, poptart said:

So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus?  I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned.  Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. 

I assume he didn't look like me. Why would that matter?

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Why do you get to decide what Jesus looked like based on just his maternal parentage?  Do you know the DNA of God the Father?

Edited by Sevenbak
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10 minutes ago, Sevenbak said:

Why do you get to decide what Jesus looked like based on just his maternal parentage?  Do you know the DNA of God the Father?

Does this mean that we should favor the Viking version of Jesus we normally get?

Jesus as Thor?

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I’ve never seen a Thor / Viking Jesus.  Although I’m sure he used a hammer as a carpenter.

 

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19 minutes ago, Sevenbak said:

Why do you get to decide what Jesus looked like based on just his maternal parentage?  Do you know the DNA of God the Father?

Isn't there scripture indicating he wasn't unusual in appearance?  

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2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

They would likely apostatize.

Jesus belonged to the tribe of Judah, many of whom can be seen in this Jerusalem flashmob at Hadassah Hospital.  That is what Jews look like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzwWskM4hN8 .

 

Great video! 

But it isn't absolutely certain that Jews at the time of Jesus's nativity looked like this lovely collection of musicians.  There have been many new streams of genetics adding into the Jewish "race" since that time, and now there are Jews who could pass as the faux-Aryans that the Third Reich were so enamoured with.  When you think of the Virgin Mary, do you imagine Natalie Portman?  Or Rachel Weisz?  Or even Scarlett Johansson?  All are Jewish (although Scarlett is only half Jewish).  

As for me, Jesus is Christ, and whatever He looked like in mortality is immaterial.  I don't hold to the view that in the Resurrection we maintain our mortal "race".  We Caucasians are not "white", we're very light brown.  White is the color of the sun, and it washes out all other color.  In the resurrection we are all the same race.  That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Oh, and here are some lovely Israeli Defence Force ladies.  Picture any one of them as the Virgin Mary.  Aren't they beautiful! ❤️ 

mujeressoldado11.jpg

 

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