HappyJackWagon Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 43 minutes ago, rpn said: The poster who wrote the above has clearly not lived in other states and cities where the strong religious presence was something other than Mormon. Such places exist in many states and cities where one faith is more established. Utah is not at all unique, except that it is the Mormon faith involved. Clearly you don't know much about DB Mormon. He lived his entire life outside of Utah until just a couple of years ago. So your point is pretty silly. Link to comment
kllindley Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, jkwilliams said: Why am I picturing Tobias Fünke? That was my first thought, too. That's why I never mix therapy and psychoanalysis, or buy custom license plates-no matter how excited I am about a new start. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, kllindley said: That was my first thought, too. That's why I never mix therapy and psychoanalysis, or buy custom license plates-no matter how excited I am about a new start. I say it's time for a nu start. Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Okrahomer said: See here. ESPN had sued the University of Notre Dame PD for records related to athletes at the university. The Indiana Supreme Court overturned the lower court. Notre Dame PD did not have to release the records, because the PD was not part of any level of government. That is what I was looking for - thank you. So, there is no moral issue about right and wrong, but rather what state laws exist or don't. Based on this, it is not a black and white issue at all much to the chagrin of some critics who seek to make mountains out of molehills. 1 Link to comment
rpn Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: Clearly you don't know much about DB Mormon. He lived his entire life outside of Utah until just a couple of years ago. So your point is pretty silly. If he'd lived in any of the states and cities where the catholic or the baptist or whatever are the majority, why would he say that control of government and culture doesn't happen except with mormons: IME it absolutely does. That is my point. 1 Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 8 hours ago, jkwilliams said: It's interesting living in Davis County. When we lived in Provo, you saw BYU bumper stickers, decals, shirts, hats, etc., everywhere you went, but here it's all University of Utah paraphernalia (with Weber State being a distant second). I see very few visible signs of support for BYU, and even less for Utah State. I would have thought USU had a larger presence here. Yes, quite exotic, I am sure. The wonderful diversity of Utah.! Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: From your lips to God's ears. I've asked many members of Congress what I'd need to send them to get Church HQ (sans Provo; my apologies) legally designated as sovereign Nah, that is begging for permission. We just need to declare it. Sovereigns don't beg. There wouldn't be a problem if Joseph just decided to become king. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 44 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Yes, quite exotic, I am sure. The wonderful diversity of Utah.! I like Utah and don’t see any reason to mock it. I’m in a military town, so it’s plenty diverse. 2 Link to comment
USU78 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 8 hours ago, jkwilliams said: Maybe they just aren’t proud of attending USU. 😂 Check the license plates. Much better indicator than stickers. 1 Link to comment
Jeanne Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I like Utah and don’t see any reason to mock it. I’m in a military town, so it’s plenty diverse. I raised my kids in a military town in Utah...I had every race, religion and non religion at birthday parties!! My kids are better for it. Link to comment
Hestia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Two similar threads have been merged. @FearlessFixxer, always try to see if a thread already exists on a topic before starting a new one. Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 36 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I like Utah and don’t see any reason to mock it. I’m in a military town, so it’s plenty diverse. You can mock LA and I promise not to be offended. Everyone does!! No offense intended- I am sorry I offended you. I thought I was being funny. Your town may be diverse but Utah is not exactly know for that. Link to comment
bluebell Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 49 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I like Utah and don’t see any reason to mock it. I’m in a military town, so it’s plenty diverse. I agree. Our neighborhood has equal amounts members and nonmembers. But we do only live a couple blocks from Hill Air Force Base so that probably helps. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: You can mock LA and I promise not to be offended. Everyone does!! No offense intended- I am sorry I offended you. I thought I was being funny. Your town may be diverse but Utah is not exactly know for that. I would never mock my hometown. My wife doesn’t like LA much, but it will always be home to me. I’m not offended. Utah is just where I live now, and I like it. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, bluebell said: I agree. Our neighborhood has equal amounts members and nonmembers. But we do only live a couple blocks from Hill Air Force Base so that probably helps. I work on the base. 1 Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 38 minutes ago, USU78 said: Check the license plates. Much better indicator than stickers. I’ve only seen U and Weber plates and a few Y plates. Link to comment
ttribe Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I may have missed it being discussed in this thread, but didn't BYU argue the exact opposite of what it's arguing in this case in Mallory v. BYU in 2014? Namely, didn't it argue that it was a government agency under the direction of Provo PD? Link to comment
USU78 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I’ve only seen U and Weber plates and a few Y plates. Most ewe fans never learned the letter "A" 1 Link to comment
Amulek Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, rpn said: If he'd lived in any of the states and cities where the catholic or the baptist or whatever are the majority, why would he say that control of government and culture doesn't happen except with mormons: IME it absolutely does. That is my point. Seriously. I grew up in the Bible Belt, and there are tons of places that are run by the dominant religious group. And, in my opinion, they tend to be much more meddlesome than the LDS church is - even in Utah. 1 Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, bluebell said: I agree. Our neighborhood has equal amounts members and nonmembers. But we do only live a couple blocks from Hill Air Force Base so that probably helps. If every Mormon the church claims as a member lived in the US- say 15 milion US Mormons- they would be about 4.6% of the US population. I am putting them in the US to make the number of members more favorable to make it seem like Mormons are a higher percentage of the US population than they are. The real US population of Mormons is around 6 million so we are talking less than 2 % And you get 50/50 next to the base, so that makes Utah diverse? Just sayin'. Most high schools hereabouts have a few thousand kids. Maybe half a dozen are Mormon. That's the experience my kids have had. It's quite different hereabouts- that is my only point. Maybe I should post on local news to let people know what it feels like. Did you know that our typical temple attendance at each temple session on a week day evening is about 8-10 people? The population of Utah is about 3 million. The church claims 2 million members in Utah on the records. 66% The population of California is 39.5 million. The church claims 767 thousand members in California on records. 1.9% LA county alone is 10 million, 3 times the size of Utah in population. If all the Mormons in California lived in LA county, they would represent 7.6% of the COUNTY population. It's pretty different. I don't know if 50% counts as "diverse". https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/united-states/state/utah Edited July 19, 2018 by mfbukowski Link to comment
tulip Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 12 hours ago, smac97 said: Sigh. It's rhetoric like this that makes people like me naturally resistant against and defensive towards people like you. I happen to agree with the general sentiment in the OP (regarding the BYU PD being subject to GRAMA requests). But then you come along and turn this issue into a means of attacking the LDS Church. Guess what that does to people like me, who love the LDS Church? Even Mr. McKnight can't resist almost weaponizing this issue ("I feel like we all should agree on this one regardless of where we are with the truth claims of the Church"). The merits of the legal arguments presented about BYU PD being subject to GRAMA has precisely nothing to do with "the truth claims of the [LDS] Church." And yet here you and Mr. McKnight are, to varying degrees, tying the two together. -Smac I am an active church going member. I have a calling. Nice of you to jump to conclusions. I believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I however do not agree with the church doing whatever they want to do. They should follow laws just like everyone else. Link to comment
Unaffiliated Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Hey just be happy you don't live in a country that forces Sharia Law on its citizens. The freedom to choose what religion you are is one of the reasons you have America today. They didnt like the Church of England being the only option. 1 Link to comment
Popular Post smac97 Posted July 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, tulip said: I am an active church going member. I have a calling. Nice of you to jump to conclusions. I didn't jump to conclusions. I read your post. The one where you publicly slandered the Church. Quote I believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I however do not agree with the church doing whatever they want to do. They should follow laws just like everyone else. I agree. Haven't you read my posts? I took exception to the falsehood endemic in "The church doesn't follow laws. They are the law." The LDS Church certainly follows the law. The 12th Article of Faith: "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." D&C 58: Quote 21 Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land. 22 Wherefore, be subject to the powers that be, until he reigns whose right it is to reign, and subdues all enemies under his feet. 23 Behold, the laws which ye have received from my hand are the laws of the church, and in this light ye shall hold them forth. Behold, here is wisdom. And D&C 134: Quote 5 We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; and that all governments have a right to enact such laws as in their own judgments are best calculated to secure the public interest; at the same time, however, holding sacred the freedom of conscience. 6 We believe that every man should be honored in his station, rulers and magistrates as such, being placed for the protection of the innocent and the punishment of the guilty; and that to the laws all men owe respect and deference, as without them peace and harmony would be supplanted by anarchy and terror; human laws being instituted for the express purpose of regulating our interests as individuals and nations, between man and man; and divine laws given of heaven, prescribing rules on spiritual concerns, for faith and worship, both to be answered by man to his Maker. And so on. This is what the Church teaches. This is what the Church believes. I readily admit that I don't know you. But I don't need to know you to be able to say that the statement "the church doesn't follow laws" is a rank falsehood. Membership in the Church does not give you the privilege of falsely disparaging the Church. If I am fundamentally misunderstanding you, I'd like an explanation of your remark. Otherwise, I'll take it at face value and proceed accordingly. Thanks, -Smac Edited July 19, 2018 by smac97 5 Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 hours ago, USU78 said: Most ewe fans never learned the letter "A" Hey, now! Your affinity for All Things Aggie is one thing, but don't you be raggin' on all the peeps from my alma mater! Link to comment
USU78 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Hey, now! Your affinity for All Things Aggie is one thing, but don't you be raggin' on all the peeps from my alma mater! Well, I will give you this: that's prolly a full degree of magnitude better than the local press, which cannot seem to be able to count to three. Link to comment
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