Avatar4321 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 https://www.lds.org/ensign/2018/07/how-we-succeeded-in-sharing-the-gospel?lang=eng How many of us have this kind of faith? I feel like I could be doing much better. 4 Link to comment
DennisTate Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 22 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2018/07/how-we-succeeded-in-sharing-the-gospel?lang=eng How many of us have this kind of faith? I feel like I could be doing much better. I believe that because Latter Day Saints take near death experience accounts very seriously... .you are in a position to reach a massive number of unconverted people. The NDE of Colton Burpo is changing the world... and the NDE of former Atheist Howard Storm Ph. D. sure does help to explain L.D.S. ideas on the afterlife.... and the millennium. Link to comment
Calm Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, DennisTate said: The NDE of Colton Burpo is changing the world... and the NDE of former Atheist Howard Storm Ph. D. sure does help to explain L.D.S. ideas on the afterlife.... and the millennium. You probably should explain your conclusions for those not familiar with them (describe the how, why, and what). Link to comment
DennisTate Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 21 hours ago, Calm said: You probably should explain your conclusions for those not familiar with them (describe the how, why, and what). Thank you..... with pleasure. I first attended the local Nova Scotia, Canada, L. D. S. temple back in 1991 or 1992 because I had already read the near death experience account of Mr. Bettie J. Eadie....... and I noticed that she did not get disfellowshipped as my old church would probably have done with her..... .so I decided to go to a service or two or three... .and have a look for myself. https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng Quote The spirits are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated (see 1 Nephi 15:28–30), but the spirits may progress as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them. The spirits in paradise can teach the spirits in prison (see D&C 138). Although I am not an L.D.S. myself yet.... I regard the statement in this chapter as exceptionally insightful.... and accurate...... and perfectly in accord with modern NDE accounts. Here are statements by former Atheist Howard Storm Ph. D. that sure seem to fit with L.D.S. and scriptural ideas on the Era of Messiah / The Millennium: https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#a04 Quote The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology. The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world. And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition. There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person. What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables. People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine. Animals lived with people, in harmony. People, in this best of all worlds, weren't interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do. Link to comment
6EQUJ5 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 5:06 PM, DennisTate said: I believe that because Latter Day Saints take near death experience accounts very seriously... .you are in a position to reach a massive number of unconverted people. The NDE of Colton Burpo is changing the world... and the NDE of former Atheist Howard Storm Ph. D. sure does help to explain L.D.S. ideas on the afterlife.... and the millennium. NDEs are a trick of the devil. So much false doctrine has been spread and too many have been led astray but supposed NDEs. The prophets and apostles are all we need. Link to comment
Exiled Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: NDEs are a trick of the devil. So much false doctrine has been spread and too many have been led astray but supposed NDEs. The prophets and apostles are all we need. I'm curious how you are so sure of the source of the "near death experiences" people claim to have had. Is it because they don't always accord with mormon teachings, so, by definition they are wrong, from satan? Has God told you so? Link to comment
Atheist Mormon Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: NDEs are a trick of the devil. So much false doctrine has been spread and too many have been led astray but supposed NDEs. The prophets and apostles are all we need. NOT a trick of "devil", it's a trick of the brain, as it runs out of oxygen it creates "the narrow tunnel and "bright light" affects. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: NDEs are a trick of the devil. So much false doctrine has been spread and too many have been led astray but supposed NDEs. The prophets and apostles are all we need. Great church lady! I will stay clear...not! I've read and listened to a number of them. I find most to be credible. What false doctine? The prophets/apostles get it wrong too. Edited July 9, 2018 by Tacenda Link to comment
6EQUJ5 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: What false doctine? Spencer. Julie Rowe. Enough said about the satanic nature of NDEs. Link to comment
carbon dioxide Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: NOT a trick of "devil", it's a trick of the brain, as it runs out of oxygen it creates "the narrow tunnel and "bright light" affects. So lack of oxygen causes people to have detailed experience far beyond what normally one experiences in a dream and conversations with dead people who actually existed. I have heard stories of people meeting dead relatives they did not know and later found them in their genealogy. The oxygen stuff might explain simple things like "the light" but NDE often go far beyond the light. Link to comment
carbon dioxide Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said: NDEs are a trick of the devil. So much false doctrine has been spread and too many have been led astray but supposed NDEs. The prophets and apostles are all we need. NDE usually bring people closer to God and help their faith. NDE usually change people for the better. If it is a trick of the devil, the devil is not doing a good job . Link to comment
Calm Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: Spencer. Julie Rowe. Enough said about the satanic nature of NDEs. Imo, those two are examples of individuals taking advantage of interest in NDEs to get attention, not stories about actual NDEs. In the case of Julie Rowe, people who tracked her over the years said she made different claims about what she saw. She also, iirc, made a claim she had never read about other NDEs prior to sharing her NDE while she had in a previous comment talked about an NDE book she had read. She has given dates for events to happen and then when the date passed denied she had made that claim. So her own comments have been contradictions over the years. Spencer's claims about his NDE experiences don't line up with actual medical practices. Iow, he made up a story. https://www.fairmormon.org/archive/publications/spencers-visions-of-glory Neither of them are therefore good examples of actual NDE experiences, imo. Edited July 9, 2018 by Calm Link to comment
Calm Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: So lack of oxygen causes people to have detailed experience far beyond what normally one experiences in a dream.... I don't know about your dreams, but I have had dreams as complicated as any NDE I have read. Link to comment
Calm Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Dennis, you may be interested in this article: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1015&context=jbms Kevin posts on this board on occasion. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I am not convinced by NDEs. I think they will have as big an impact on the spreading of the gospel as Book of Mormon archaeology. Virtually none. Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 11:14 AM, Avatar4321 said: How many of us have this kind of faith? I feel like I could be doing much better. I think the content of posts so far may be an indirect answer to your question... 1 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 My answer, by the way: I think much of what we hear from critics in forums such as this is intentionally meant to discourage our faith to reach out and share. Our prophets have told us that the best is in front of us. I sincerely believe that. My experience is that we are surrounded by people who will listen. My housemate who was baptised a few years ago managed to successfully invite four strangers to our stake sports night last week. 3 Link to comment
Atheist Mormon Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 9 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: So lack of oxygen causes people to have detailed experience far beyond what normally one experiences in a dream and conversations with dead people who actually existed. I have heard stories of people meeting dead relatives they did not know and later found them in their genealogy. The oxygen stuff might explain simple things like "the light" but NDE often go far beyond the light. Great! only random & select few will benefit from this NDE lottery...... conveniently pessimists like us will be left out.......But wait we can relive the situation in a lab setting and most of people who participate report the same visual experiences. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 10 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said: Spencer. Julie Rowe. Enough said about the satanic nature of NDEs. Agree on those two, but those aren't the ones I'm talking about, but good reminder. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said: Spencer. Julie Rowe. Enough said about the satanic nature of NDEs. It can be wrong without being a satanic hallucination or can even just be made up like I believe Rowe and Spencer are. Edited July 9, 2018 by The Nehor 1 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 1:23 AM, Hamba Tuhan said: My answer, by the way: I think much of what we hear from critics in forums such as this is intentionally meant to discourage our faith to reach out and share. Our prophets have told us that the best is in front of us. I sincerely believe that. My experience is that we are surrounded by people who will listen. My housemate who was baptised a few years ago managed to successfully invite four strangers to our stake sports night last week. I believe. I just want to know how. Everyone I try to invite starts trying to pick a fight Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 18 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: I believe. I just want to know how. Everyone I try to invite starts trying to pick a fight Half the people I taught as a missionary started off that way. Maybe it's a good start? 1 Link to comment
clarkgoble Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 4:09 PM, DennisTate said: Thank you..... with pleasure. I first attended the local Nova Scotia, Canada, L. D. S. temple back in 1991 or 1992 because I had already read the near death experience account of Mr. Bettie J. Eadie....... Are you from Nova Scotia? They made that temple after I'd moved here to Provo but I grew up in Halifax. Would have just missed you as I went on my mission in 87. (To Louisiana) My parents were there until around 2003 or 2004. (Can't remember exactly when) They then retired to Alberta. We lived just down the road from the Halifax chapel. Link to comment
readstoomuch Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 There are medical explanations of near death experiences. For example neurons as they are starved of oxygen start firing up many impulses that can bring back memories. The posterior cortex of the cerebrum has the effect of a tunnel as it is again starved. Having said that, I don’t think all of the physiologic effects explain all details of NDE. There are some religious and national contexts for an individuals NDE that are found. I think some are made up. I had the experience of having my first wife appear to me during a surgery that was pretty serious. I wasn’t starved of oxygen that I know of, but it sure seemed real to me and still does. I have read quite a NDEs and the most profound one I read was by Eben Alexander, MD about his own. His is interesting in that it wasn`t an anoxic (lack of oxygen) circumstance. I knew he and his father. They were very serious people, both neurosurgeons. Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 20 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Half the people I taught as a missionary started off that way. Maybe it's a good start? Maybe it is, but i would love to get people past the fighting stage Link to comment
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