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23 hours ago, RevTestament said:

That was kind of my thought - to pattern it after institute. I think institute uses better materials. I have never taken seminary, but it seems most of our kids enjoyed it. However, I am not sure that a repeated seminary class is what SS should be.

The institute manuals are pretty horrible (IMO).

But again the issue isn't what people would like, but what the people available could teach. That's a much, much trickier issue. Further while some might like a more academic like Sunday School I suspect most wouldn't. Further you'd probably have a bunch of crackpots in each ward speaking up and distracting things. I think that's pretty hard to pull off with the reality of the audience and likely teachers.

44 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

Out in the real world (outside t he Mormon corridor) we have lay teachers for seminary - they do a good job, but its 5 days a week.

Mine certainly weren't that good.

That said the Seminary manuals, while in dire need of improvements in some places, overall are quite good. Sunday School has traditionally been much more open ended. A good teacher can really teach anyway they want. When I've taught Sunday School I always bring in context and so forth.

 

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1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

The institute manuals are pretty horrible (IMO).

But again the issue isn't what people would like, but what the people available could teach. That's a much, much trickier issue. Further while some might like a more academic like Sunday School I suspect most wouldn't. Further you'd probably have a bunch of crackpots in each ward speaking up and distracting things. I think that's pretty hard to pull off with the reality of the audience and likely teachers.

 

Could be.

In my neck of the woods (northern Utah) whenever we have an activity where the focus is an academic treatment of scriptures, they are very very well attended.  Other places are probably different.

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2 hours ago, mnn727 said:

Out in the real world (outside t he Mormon corridor) we have lay teachers for seminary - they do a good job, but its 5 days a week.

Did want to add though that the town 20 miles over (in our same county and in the same stake) had release time seminary during the day and a CES employee who taught it.  So, even some places outside of the mormon corridor can have access to CES teachers sometimes.  I'm sure it's not the norm though.

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26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Did want to add though that the town 20 miles over (in our same county and in the same stake) had release time seminary during the day and a CES employee who taught it.  So, even some places outside of the mormon corridor can have access to CES teachers sometimes.  I'm sure it's not the norm though.

My kids have had some good teachers and some really awful teachers out here without full time CES instructors.

Edited by bsjkki
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10 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

The only time I remember doing a "linger longer" was in a non-married student ward at BYU, where it worked well. The logistics of doing it with a ward full of families with kids would be much more difficult, but I can see how it would build a ward family. I miss the days when they had church activities just for fun and fellowship. We did things like a one-act play competition, a massive "dance festival" at the Rose Bowl, and our annual YM/YW "opening social" at the beach in Malibu. Now it all has to have a priesthood purpose. But I would think building a ward community/family is a priesthood purpose, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I've said before that people are generally reluctant to leave their religion if it is a meaningful and important part of their lives. Seems to me too much of what is done these days has been shoe-horned into correlated gospel utility, making meetings and activities more about obligation than engendering commitment. 

I think it is more a time and resource cost for the road shows and dance festivals than a lack of a "priesthood purpose", at least that was what I have been told by bishops and other leaders.  Those dance festivals in my stake in CA required months of activity night practices and then several Saturdays, including a dress rehearsal for the whole group plus the hassle of sewing the dance uniforms.  And I hated every minute, but was forced to go by parents.  same with the road shows.  If my parents had been accommodating, that would have been a couple of months of no YW activities for me.  My sister was involved in the regional dance festival and she had to drive across the Bay daily for two weeks of practice iirc (I covered her work...even learned how to make coffee though have no clue how it tasted except no one complained, lol)

Edited by Calm
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On 7/5/2018 at 12:41 PM, bluebell said:

I don't have any specifics, but I would like SS to be more like seminary and institute, where we can learn more about the context of scriptures, bible archeology, Hebrew and Greek translations, church history, etc.  I recognize that it would be hard to make it work with lay-teachers.

It would not be hard for lay teachers if one just produces good manuals to be used.

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3 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think it is more a time and resource cost for the road shows and dance festivals than a lack of a "priesthood purpose", at least that was what I have been told by bishops and other leaders.  Those dance festivals in my stake in CA required months of activity night practices and then several Saturdays, including a dress rehearsal for the whole group plus the hassle of sewing the dance uniforms.  And I hated every minute, but was forced to go by parents.  same with the road shows.  If my parents had been accommodating, that would have been a couple of months of no YW activities for me.  My sister was involved in the regional dance festival and she had to drive across the Bay for two weeks of practice iirc (I covered her work...even learned how to make coffee though have no clue how it tasted except no one complained, lol)

I can see that. I guess I just think my kids missed out on some things because they didn’t have the same opportunities I did. I never forced my kids to participate. 

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10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I have found that outside of Utah, Sabbath standards are looser mostly because most members are converts. 

I cannot even imagine what a "rowdy" church activity would be. Loud laughter?

 

Anyone who has used that term around me has meant younger kids running around the building while parents are talking to other parents trusting their kids are not outside running into the street (not always a wise assumption in my experience, though they kept to the lawn and parking lot the vast majority of the time).

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2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I can see that. I guess I just think my kids missed out on some things because they didn’t have the same opportunities I did. I never forced my kids to participate. 

My sister really enjoyed it, she always liked performing.  My parents did as well.  I never did, kind of the odd one out in my family.

Edited by Calm
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8 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

That makes me happy. When we lived in Texas, the stake president seemed to be hell-bent on ridding youth activities of fun. I know he was an extreme example, but I've seen other leaders follow a similar course. I'm glad you are making a positive difference for your young women. 

I have never been involved in YW myself, so it is all by observation...looks like we have always lucked out with leaders intent on kids having an enjoyable experience, my son had a ball, very close friends.  Daughter was doing well till diabetes sent her anxiety into overdrive, so I can't be sure, but she got tons of invites to what seemed to me to be fun stuff (but after my experience with probably a tenth of her anxiety issues, no way was I going to insist she go for "her own good").

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Those dance festivals in my stake in CA required months of activity night practices and then several Saturdays, including a dress rehearsal for the whole group plus the hassle of sewing the dance uniforms.  And I hated every minute, but was forced to go by parents.  same with the road shows.  If my parents had been accommodating, that would have been a couple of months of no YW activities for me.  My sister was involved in the regional dance festival and she had to drive across the Bay daily for two weeks of practice iirc

Our stake replaced Road Show with "Play in a Day" - 7pm Friday you get your "For Strength of Youth" theme and a Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks movie (and everyone has to incorperate a line and a prop, like a "pinapple" and "Hey, those were my tater tots!"), and 7pm the next you had to perform a 15 minute adaptation of that movie that revolved around the theme.  Our ward had the priests/laurels write the script Friday night and Saturday morning the rest of the Youth and leaders gather to do parts, music, props, costuming, and practice.  Scratches the thespian itch while keeping commitments reasonable.

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11 minutes ago, revelstoked said:

Our stake replaced Road Show with "Play in a Day" - 7pm Friday you get your "For Strength of Youth" theme and a Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks movie (and everyone has to incorperate a line and a prop, like a "pinapple" and "Hey, those were my tater tots!"), and 7pm the next you had to perform a 15 minute adaptation of that movie that revolved around the theme.  Our ward had the priests/laurels write the script Friday night and Saturday morning the rest of the Youth and leaders gather to do parts, music, props, costuming, and practice.  Scratches the thespian itch while keeping commitments reasonable.

Sounds like fun for those who like such things.

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15 hours ago, Calm said:

Anyone who has used that term around me has meant younger kids running around the building while parents are talking to other parents trusting their kids are not outside running into the street (not always a wise assumption in my experience, though they kept to the lawn and parking lot the vast majority of the time).

Oh.

Hereabouts we call that "church". Pretty normal for any activity.

 

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17 hours ago, Calm said:

Anyone who has used that term around me has meant younger kids running around the building while parents are talking to other parents trusting their kids are not outside running into the street (not always a wise assumption in my experience, though they kept to the lawn and parking lot the vast majority of the time).

Here "rowdy" would be cussing about basketball, boom boxes with rap music in the cultural Hall on Sunday, fireworks in the parking lot, young couples sneaking off together.

Seriously.

Not watching the kids is totally normal.

It's all relative.

Edited by mfbukowski
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Edited by mfbukowski
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5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Here "rowdy" would be cussing about basketball, boom boxes with rap music in the cultural Hall on Sunday, fireworks in the parking lot, young couples sneaking off together.

Seriously.

Not watching the kids is totally normal.

It's all relative.

Are you saying that people from Utah would call parents not watching kids "rowdy" and people from outside of Utah would call it "normal"? 

My experience is that most non-mormons all over the US would call it rowdy and bad parenting so it's kind of odd to me that those who rub elbows with a lower percentage of non-mormons would align more with non-mormons.

I actually think it has nothing to do with being in or out of Utah though. It has more to do with the personalities of you and Scott. 

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I am not saying it is typical of Utahns to call kids running around "rowdy".  In fact, .I have heard the complaint more outside of Utah.  One of my wards was married student housing and elderly who had been in their homes for decades as the area had off campus mostly smaller, expensive homes that young families couldn't afford.  There was one neighbourhood area that homes were okay and could be built onto and a number of young families moved there after graduation (higher income careers though), but most moved out.  We managed because it was a fixer upper and were able to manage with one car because campus was within walking distance as were three malls.

The "rowdy" type of comments are generally from singles or older members, mostly elderly, anywhere in the world in my experience.  I think if you don't have kids running around in your daily life, it may be a bit of a cultural shock when encountered and added to it being Church, just feels out of place.

Edited by Calm
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8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Oh.

Hereabouts we call that "church". Pretty normal for any activity.

 

When I was in college, I was in a singles branch. No little kids running around. No older people. Just college students. 

I absolutely hated it!!!!!! It didn't feel like church.

I will take a ward with kids (rowdy as they may be) over one without any day.

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