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A Scientific Argument Why The Problem of "Immodesty" Will Never Be Fixed

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2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I haven't read this thread for a while, but I had an experience last week at youth conference that drove me nuts (hopefully i haven't already shared it and just forgotten).

Youth conference was overnight at a church camp near Morgan (camp zarahemla) and one of the rules for the kids going was no swimsuits.  There would be two water activities (a giant slip-n-slide and tubing the river) but they were emphatic that no swimsuits were to be worn.

So, it's the day of the water stuff and every girl is in shorts and a t-shirt.  Almost every boy, without exception, was shirtless and in his swimsuit.  I was not impressed that they embraced such an obvious double standard, and the girls obviously noticed as well.  I'm still really annoyed thinking about it.

Also, today my friend told me that her daughter is leave for girls camp up at Heber Valley and there rules are absolutely no swimsuits, shorts, or capris.  And no tight jeans, all pants must be loose (they even included pictures of appropriate pants in their rules).  They said that girls who did not have appropriate clothing would be forced to call their parents and have them bring up different clothes.  That also makes my head want to explode.

I get modesty, and I think it's an important teaching.  I have no problem asking for standards of dress  But I don't get making it as difficult as possible for some of the youth that need it the most to feel wanted and loved at these kinds of functions.  I don't get implying that capris (pants that hit mid calf) are immodest.  I don't get teaching that being in a swimsuit while swimming is immodest.

I would imagine that a wet t-shirt and shorts could end up being a lot more revealing than a normal swimming suit.  Swimming suits are designed to get wet and still keep things covered.  T-shirts are certainly not designed to do that.  

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13 hours ago, bluebell said:

I haven't read this thread for a while, but I had an experience last week at youth conference that drove me nuts (hopefully i haven't already shared it and just forgotten).

Youth conference was overnight at a church camp near Morgan (camp zarahemla) and one of the rules for the kids going was no swimsuits.  There would be two water activities (a giant slip-n-slide and tubing the river) but they were emphatic that no swimsuits were to be worn.

So, it's the day of the water stuff and every girl is in shorts and a t-shirt.  Almost every boy, without exception, was shirtless and in his swimsuit.  I was not impressed that they embraced such an obvious double standard, and the girls obviously noticed as well.  I'm still really annoyed thinking about it.

Also, today my friend told me that her daughter is leave for girls camp up at Heber Valley and there rules are absolutely no swimsuits, shorts, or capris.  And no tight jeans, all pants must be loose (they even included pictures of appropriate pants in their rules).  They said that girls who did not have appropriate clothing would be forced to call their parents and have them bring up different clothes.  That also makes my head want to explode.

I get modesty, and I think it's an important teaching.  I have no problem asking for standards of dress  But I don't get making it as difficult as possible for some of the youth that need it the most to feel wanted and loved at these kinds of functions.  I don't get implying that capris (pants that hit mid calf) are immodest.  I don't get teaching that being in a swimsuit while swimming is immodest.

I am totally with you on this one.  I think it is insane to have water activities and not allow swimming suits.  The only. difference between board shorts and shorts is that one is designed to dry faster.  There is no modesty issue.  Who wants to walk around in sopping wet clothes for the rest of the day.  I can't see how a teen would not look at such a request as just being ridiculous.  The implication that if you are wearing a swimming suit while doing a water activity makes you a less than faithful member.  When teenagers start thinking the church rules are just stupid, that doesn't help them want to live the gospel.

Personally I would just have a bag of tee shirts.  If someone shows up in an immodest swimsuit, just hand the tee shirt to them.  Don't make it a litmus test of whether they should be attending a youth activity.  People wonder why youth are leaving the church?  These kinds of micro managed requirements are not helping.  It just makes them mad at stupid church requirements and what the definition of a faithful member is.  

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2018 at 12:59 PM, Thinking said:

Because I'm Mr. Vain.

 

 

Holes.jpg

You may have mistakenly thought I was being sarcastic about my big toes. These are the US Keds I wore my senior year in high school and first year at BYU. My mother and wife have thrown them away numerous times, but I keep retrieving them from the dumpster as a funshoes.thumb.jpg.46e4f059ef92e888f71af32ad7a00f68.jpg remembrance of those years.

Edited by Bernard Gui

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8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

You may have mistakenly thought I was being sarcastic about my big toes. These are the US Keds I wore my senior year in high school and first year at BYU. My mother and wife have thrown them away numerous times, but I keep retrieving them from the dumpster as a funshoes.thumb.jpg.46e4f059ef92e888f71af32ad7a00f68.jpg remembrance of those years.

My Dad grew up during the depression. Once he told his father that he wished he could have new shoes because his had holes in the soles. His father promptly cut some insoles out of a cardboard box.

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