Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted June 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) I will be on the road tomorrow traveling with my sons to some national parks and will be pretty much away from internet access. So I'll take occasion today to post this. Tomorrow, June 27, marks 174 years since the martyrdom of the Prophet Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum at Carthage, Ill. I have stood in the very room on a number of occasions where the two prophets were slain. I have felt to honor them on those occasions, and I do so now. I indicated on another thread that as I intended to select the hymn "Praise to the Man" for singing in our priesthood opening exercises on Sunday. I did so, briefly reminding the brethren beforehand that this week would be the anniversary of the martyrdom. As expected, we sang with fervor and gusto, despite the lack of piano or organ accompaniment. I will close this post with these words from the scriptural canon pertaining to Joseph, the prophet of the Restoration: Quote Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants,and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men. gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord's anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated! Doctrine and Covenants 135:3 Edited June 27, 2018 by Scott Lloyd 13 Link to comment
Guest Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I have a incredible story of the 150th anniversary of this day, I will share it when you are back on line. In short however, I was there and met three Apostles and Prophets, and appeared on TV with two of them on a news story. 1 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 17 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: I have a incredible story of the 150th anniversary of this day, I will share it when you are back on line. In short however, I was there and met three Apostles and Prophets, and appeared on TV with two of them on a news story. im eager to hear about it Link to comment
Guest Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 54 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: im eager to hear about it Let me know when you are back. Long posts take a lot out of me these days. Have a safe trip, I already know it will be a great one. Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted June 27, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 27, 2018 Indeed, I find it depressing that so many LDS put this holiday on a higher footing then Easter. Focus on Joseph Smith people. I talked to people at church on Sunday who were not even aware of the upcoming anniversary but they definitely remembered Easter. Can you believe that? Sometimes I suspect some LDS think more of Christ then Joseph Smith. When will this apostate behavior end? 7 Link to comment
blueglass Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I like how Joseph Smith's son changed the title and lyrics. He renamed the song title to "Praise to the Lord" "Praise to the Lord for the great restoration Brought by the angel to Joseph the Seer Pleading with God in behalf of his brethren The church to establish, the gospel declare." 4 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, blueglass said: I like how Joseph Smith's son changed the title and lyrics. He renamed the song title to "Praise to the Lord" "Praise to the Lord for the great restoration Brought by the angel to Joseph the Seer Pleading with God in behalf of his brethren The church to establish, the gospel declare." I prefer the original but then I do not equate praise as automatically being worship so I never got the weird idolatry vibe so many seem to see in the song. Edited June 27, 2018 by The Nehor 2 Link to comment
Eek! Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 On 6/26/2018 at 11:15 PM, The Nehor said: Indeed, I find it depressing that so many LDS put this holiday on a higher footing then Easter. Focus on Joseph Smith people. I talked to people at church on Sunday who were not even aware of the upcoming anniversary but they definitely remembered Easter. Can you believe that? Sometimes I suspect some LDS think more of Christ then Joseph Smith. When will this apostate behavior end? Both left us lots of Easter eggs in their teachings. I don't think we've found 'em all yet. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Eek! said: Both left us lots of Easter eggs in their teachings. I don't think we've found 'em all yet. And they are starting to rot. Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/27/2018 at 11:48 AM, blueglass said: I like how Joseph Smith's son changed the title and lyrics. He renamed the song title to "Praise to the Lord" "Praise to the Lord for the great restoration Brought by the angel to Joseph the Seer Pleading with God in behalf of his brethren The church to establish, the gospel declare." So I take it you belong to the Community of Christ or one of its offshoots. Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: So I take it you belong to the Community of Christ or one of its offshoots. Well the Community of Christ wouldn't be alone in changing the lyrics from the original. The LDS Church also changed one of the verses from the original to what we sing today. 1 Link to comment
changed Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 so.. are we going to talk about the full story of what happened at Carthage, or is that not allowed in this forum? Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, changed said: so.. are we going to talk about the full story of what happened at Carthage, or is that not allowed in this forum? Depends which myths you are wanting to promulgate. 1 Link to comment
changed Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: Depends which myths you are wanting to promulgate. who shot who first... I guess we will never know... Link to comment
USU78 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 33 minutes ago, changed said: who shot who first... I guess we will never know... Ask Han. 1 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 40 minutes ago, changed said: who shot who first... I guess we will never know... Doesn't matter. Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Well the Community of Christ wouldn't be alone in changing the lyrics from the original. The LDS Church also changed one of the verses from the original to what we sing today. You mean the bit about “stain Illinois”? Big deal. The 1844 Illinoisans are long dead. It makes sense to change it. And the phrase that replaced it, “plead unto heaven” is compatible with scripture. A vast improvement, say I. Edited June 30, 2018 by Scott Lloyd 1 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, changed said: so.. are we going to talk about the full story of what happened at Carthage, or is that not allowed in this forum? 4 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Depends which myths you are wanting to promulgate. 2 hours ago, changed said: who shot who first... I guess we will never know... Are you going to propound the outrageous and dishonest sophistry that Joseph “died in a gunfight”? Yeah, keep that crap out of this thread, if you please. Edited to add: Sorry to have been short with you. But when a hostile, armed mob with faces painted black to disguise their identity storms a jail and overpowers the guard, it is beyond clear that their intent is not to have a polite give-and-take. No reasonable person under such circumstances would make an issue over “who shot first,” although it’s pretty clear from eyewitness accounts it wasn’t Joseph. Edited June 30, 2018 by Scott Lloyd 2 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/26/2018 at 6:10 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Let me know when you are back. Long posts take a lot out of me these days. Have a safe trip, I already know it will be a great one. I’m back now. It was a fun three days, although after hiking Canyonlands yesterday, I need something to “strengthen [my] feeble knees.” Link to comment
Guest Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I’m back now. It was a fun three days, although after hiking Canyonlands yesterday, I need something to “strengthen [my] feeble knees.” It was June of 1994, and the family (my wife and four children) and I were going on a ten day vaction. We had already made plans to visit the Kirkland Temple as well as many other Church Historical sites. Of course being from Atlanta, we were headed north, when about 40 miles south of OH State line I happened to be reading a story in the Ensign. In so doing I was reminded that it had been 150 years since the death of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. So, we took a vote as a family, and changed our plans about 10 miles before we had to make the turn west. We a U.S. Interstate map (no GPS, in those days, at least not for someone of a police salary), at that point everything, and I mean "everything" was on the fly. Knowing nothing about Nauvoo and Carthage, IL, I called ahead looking for lodging. I was not sure there would be any big deal surrounding the events of that week, but I thought that there may be...so I looked and found lodging in Burlington, Iowa, some 40 miles north. So after our arrival in Iowa, we just made the drive down each day, to visit different things in Nauvoo. We went over to Carthage two days before the big ceremony that was broadcast, only then did we learn of the event to take place there. So we rested up the day before, and arrived early and stood in line for, 4 1/2 hours, to end up about four rows back from the main stage. It was oppressively hot day, and there were concerns about the heat, and then worries about thunderstorms. We came prepared for any envent, and it paid off is some very odd ways. While seated the news media were walking up and down trying to talk to and engage people for their news stories. Most people were giving (not be unkind) typical answers to the same questions. The reporter then asked me, "why the umbrella"? My reply was, "well I don't want to be any more a redneck than I already am". He then told the camera crew, "I've gotta talk to this guy"! So, I was interviewed, told him where we were from and why we were there, and forgot all about it. Suddenly a thunderstorm came threatening, and there was worries that the event would have to be moved inside. It was looking very bad on the horizon. But it went all around the area, but no rain, only cool temps that dropped the temps from about 90 to 75 degrees, it was great. Anyway after it was over, we were so close to the stage we were able to meet, Elder Ballard, and President Hinckley, but not President Hunter, he was wheeled inside, he was not looking too well. We went back to Hotel, and while watching the news, they showed Elder Ballard and President Hinckley answering questions, then there was my short interview and another woman who had attended, it was strange. During our entire vacation there, we had only failed to visited on place in Nauvoo, the Lyon's Drug Store, so we were going to do that and hit the road. As we were driving up, President Hunter, his Wife, and his assistant we entering into the store, so we did not think we would get in, but not so. So, my family, one other family and President Hunter were in the store, (barely bigger than my room I am sitting in) taking the tour. After it was over, he spoke to us all, shock the hands of the adults, and put his hands on the head of the eight children in the room, four were mine. All of this was result of n accidental vacation, all of it filled with wonderful Spiritual experiences, and testimony building activities. Loved it! 3 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: It was June of 1994, and the family (my wife and four children) and I were going on a ten day vaction. We had already made plans to visit the Kirkland Temple as well as many other Church Historical sites. Of course being from Atlanta, we were headed north, when about 40 miles south of OH State line I happened to be reading a story in the Ensign. In so doing I was reminded that it had been 150 years since the death of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. So, we took a vote as a family, and changed our plans about 10 miles before we had to make the turn west. We a U.S. Interstate map (no GPS, in those days, at least not for someone of a police salary), at that point everything, and I mean "everything" was on the fly. Knowing nothing about Nauvoo and Carthage, IL, I called ahead looking for lodging. I was not sure there would be any big deal surrounding the events of that week, but I thought that there may be...so I looked and found lodging in Burlington, Iowa, some 40 miles north. So after our arrival in Iowa, we just made the drive down each day, to visit different things in Nauvoo. We went over to Carthage two days before the big ceremony that was broadcast, only then did we learn of the event to take place there. So we rested up the day before, and arrived early and stood in line for, 4 1/2 hours, to end up about four rows back from the main stage. It was oppressively hot day, and there were concerns about the heat, and then worries about thunderstorms. We came prepared for any envent, and it paid off is some very odd ways. While seated the news media were walking up and down trying to talk to and engage people for their news stories. Most people were giving (not be unkind) typical answers to the same questions. The reporter then asked me, "why the umbrella"? My reply was, "well I don't want to be any more a redneck than I already am". He then told the camera crew, "I've gotta talk to this guy"! So, I was interviewed, told him where we were from and why we were there, and forgot all about it. Suddenly a thunderstorm came threatening, and there was worries that the event would have to be moved inside. It was looking very bad on the horizon. But it went all around the area, but no rain, only cool temps that dropped the temps from about 90 to 75 degrees, it was great. Anyway after it was over, we were so close to the stage we were able to meet, Elder Ballard, and President Hinckley, but not President Hunter, he was wheeled inside, he was not looking too well. We went back to Hotel, and while watching the news, they showed Elder Ballard and President Hinckley answering questions, then there was my short interview and another woman who had attended, it was strange. During our entire vacation there, we had only failed to visited on place in Nauvoo, the Lyon's Drug Store, so we were going to do that and hit the road. As we were driving up, President Hunter, his Wife, and his assistant we entering into the store, so we did not think we would get in, but not so. So, my family, one other family and President Hunter were in the store, (barely bigger than my room I am sitting in) taking the tour. After it was over, he spoke to us all, shock the hands of the adults, and put his hands on the head of the eight children in the room, four were mine. All of this was result of n accidental vacation, all of it filled with wonderful Spiritual experiences, and testimony building activities. Loved it! What a great story! Brings added dimension to the concept of serendipity. Link to comment
Guest Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: What a great story! Brings added dimension to the concept of serendipity. Indeed it does, had another experience like that at a Christmas program as well. Ended up second row in the Conference Center with each of the Apostles and wives sitting right in front of us. I was out there for my son's wedding, I told by a tour guide that sometimes they keep back a few tickets for visiting VIP's. Picked up tickets for my wife and two children with me this time, as each levels of ushers stopped to ask for our tickets, they would just "oh, well right this way". I guess they thought we were special, anyway shook the hands of a few Apostles that time, and ran into someone from our award sitting a few seats away...very cool. 1 Link to comment
JulieM Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Are you going to propound the outrageous and dishonest sophistry that Joseph “died in a gunfight”? I believe Joseph had every right to defend himself and fight back. There is absolutely no way anyone can rightfully claim that the mob was in the right. However, Joseph wasn’t innocent either. He shouldn’t have wanted the destruction of the printing press. The Expositor contained no lies (from what I’ve read, no one can quote anything that wasn’t the truth). Joseph quite simply was afraid of being exposed. Maybe he should have just owned up to the truth about his polygamy and then he would have lived. Who knows? Either way, he most definitely should not have been murdered as he was. Edited June 30, 2018 by JulieM 3 Link to comment
blueglass Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: So I take it you belong to the Community of Christ or one of its offshoots. I like this quote preceding Joseph's famous rough stone rolling 2peter1 discourse, “I do not think there have been many good men on the earth since the days of Adam; but there was one good man and his name was Jesus. Many persons think a prophet must be a great deal better than anybody else." "I do not want you to think that I am very righteous, for I am not.” Joseph Smith jr. 21 may 1843 History of the Church (5:401) Edited June 30, 2018 by blueglass 1 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, blueglass said: I like this quote preceding Joseph's famous rough stone rolling 2peter1 discourse, “I do not think there have been many good men on the earth since the days of Adam; but there was one good man and his name was Jesus. Many persons think a prophet must be a great deal better than anybody else." "I do not want you to think that I am very righteous, for I am not.” Joseph Smith jr. 21 may 1843 History of the Church (5:401) Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 1 Link to comment
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