Update on McKenna Denson Lawsuit (Hearing Schedule)

[jkwilliams]

7 hours ago, cinepro said:

But the RFM (Radio Free Mormon) podcast isn't related to the RFM (Recovery from Mormonism) website...

Yes, thanks for the clarification.

[Jeanne]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

In the past before my daughter's health issue, we were able to take in a couple of kids over the years who needed to get away from abusive parents.  One almost became permanent, but the mom found another family willing to take him in and talked him into leaving us. He regretted it big time as that family's kids resented him.  He came and stayed with us off and on when he had left home.

We have offered our home to more, but most did not take advantage of the offer.

It is one of the few things I really dislike about not being more energetic, no adopting, no fostering as we planned to do.

Unfortunately it is not that hard to become aware of a child or even an adult in need.  Figuring out how best to help is much harder.

You are a wonderful loving human being...I am grateful for you in your caring ways for others.  Though we may be outside different fences...our love others are deep.  I so admire you.  Thank you for helping these people.  I look back and I can see that though I was a good step parent..I could have been so much better. 

[USU78]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

In the past before my daughter's health issue, we were able to take in a couple of kids over the years who needed to get away from abusive parents.  One almost became permanent, but the mom found another family willing to take him in and talked him into leaving us. He regretted it big time as that family's kids resented him.  He came and stayed with us off and on when he had left home.

We have offered our home to more, but most did not take advantage of the offer.

It is one of the few things I really dislike about not being more energetic, no adopting, no fostering as we planned to do.

Unfortunately it is not that hard to become aware of a child or even an adult in need.  Figuring out how best to help is much harder.

I wanna be like you when I'm growed up. we

[Calm]

3 hours ago, USU78 said:

I wanna be like you when I'm growed up. we

I was brought up by parents who helped others a lot, though there was only a short time period where they had a few people living with them (my husband, me, and newborn son slept on the floor in the living room, a friend on the 'guest' bed in the family room, and two premissionaries staying in the rv trailer outback). I had the advantage of having a spouse that loved kids and who had a therapist dad who invited his clients home for family dinners (mostly college kids as he was a university prof who split his job between the counseling center and teaching grad classes).  Add to that we shared a behavioural psych prof who constantly used examples of foster kids his family took in...we were comfortable with the idea.

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

I was brought up by parents who helped others a lot, though there was only a short time period where they had a few people living with them (my husband, me, and newborn son slept on the floor in the living room, a friend on the 'guest' bed in the family room, and two premissionaries staying in the rv trailer outback). I had the advantage of having a spouse that loved kids and who had a therapist dad who invited his clients home for family dinners (mostly college kids as he was a university prof who split his job between the counseling center and teaching grad classes).  Add to that we shared a behavioural psych prof who constantly used examples of foster kids his family took in...we were comfortable with the idea.

I've often thought of adopting, but if I adopt it would be someone who is much older, and perhaps labled unadoptable or hard to get adopted because they've turned 18. I wouldn't want to get dementia/Alz and then deprive a child of a mother. But perhaps that would be the same for an older child. I just want to be of help, maybe get them on their way in life. Also thought of gays that have been turned out of their homes and fostering or helping them with a home to live in. Just haven't put my thoughts into action. There's always the what if's. But people like your parents didn't go there, they just went for it. I like that.

[Calm]

46 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I've often thought of adopting, but if I adopt it would be someone who is much older, and perhaps labled unadoptable or hard to get adopted because they've turned 18. I wouldn't want to get dementia/Alz and then deprive a child of a mother. But perhaps that would be the same for an older child. I just want to be of help, maybe get them on their way in life. Also thought of gays that have been turned out of their homes and fostering or helping them with a home to live in. Just haven't put my thoughts into action. There's always the what if's. But people like your parents didn't go there, they just went for it. I like that.

I would suggest if you are thinking of going that route for adoption to foster first.  It is very different when you have had a chance to "grow up" with a child's problems to first dealing with them when they may be already full blown or you aren't familiar with the history (both family and individual) so you don't know what to expect....not that it being your own kid always takes off the edge as sometimes problems surprise us rather than slowly grow.

Fostering helps to know if you and your family will be able to adjust.

And you do need to take into account your own future.  Stress may add to ALZ degeneration  (I have no clue as I haven't studied ALZ).  Talking to those evaluating for fostering or adoption about your own issues is wisdom, some people hide their issues out of fear of being rejected, but that is selfish imo.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Calm

[strappinglad]

When my family was young( 5 kids under 16 ) we were asked to take in a young girl who had nowhere to go. We agreed to help and moved one daughter out of her room to accommodate. Soon after she moved in we were told " oh, by the way, she's pregnant ". Marvelous, well, whatever. She stayed with us until the child was born and my wife looked after her every need . She had the child and then left us. Not so much as a thank you or good bye. I do realize that she was under a lot of stress etc. at the time. We never heard from her again. I filed the experience under " no good deed goes unpunished " .As long as you have no illusions or expectations Tacenda, do all you can.

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

When my family was young( 5 kids under 16 ) we were asked to take in a young girl who had nowhere to go. We agreed to help and moved one daughter out of her room to accommodate. Soon after she moved in we were told " oh, by the way, she's pregnant ". Marvelous, well, whatever. She stayed with us until the child was born and my wife looked after her every need . She had the child and then left us. Not so much as a thank you or good bye. I do realize that she was under a lot of stress etc. at the time. We never heard from her again. I filed the experience under " no good deed goes unpunished " .As long as you have no illusions or expectations Tacenda, do all you can.

Yes, you definitely can’t go into it to be rewarded by gratitude or love. You just might be hated instead as happened with us once. 

[rockpond]

BYU’s police department had been told that they are subject to GRAMA laws.  We should soon have the unredacted report from the Denson-Bishop case along with the recordings.  

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/07/13/byu-police-should-be/

 

[Calm]

35 minutes ago, rockpond said:

We should soon have the unredacted report from the Denson-Bishop case along with the recordings.  

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/07/13/byu-police-should-be/

 

Not necessarily according to the article.  There may be an appeal or the judge may rule the specific documents are not covered by GRAMA.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Calm

[Tacenda]

Consig aka Radio Free Mormon is interviewing McKenna and it should be available to watch tomorrow. DBMormon shared on FB about it. Should be interesting I guess. I'm wondering what we'll hear in the coming weeks about the unredacted statement/interview with Bishop. Never a dull moment in the LDS world, of course not many LDS actually are even aware of all this stuff. They are just living the LDS life not reading boards of this kind, or FairMormon, or going to LDS history symposiums or Sunstone symposiums. Wow, I forgot what that life was like. 

[provoman]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Consig aka Radio Free Mormon is interviewing McKenna and it should be available to watch tomorrow. DBMormon shared on FB about it. Should be interesting I guess. I'm wondering what we'll hear in the coming weeks about the unredacted statement/interview with Bishop. Never a dull moment in the LDS world, of course not many LDS actually are even aware of all this stuff. They are just living the LDS life not reading boards of this kind, or FairMormon, or going to LDS history symposiums or Sunstone symposiums. Wow, I forgot what that life was like. 

It takes a special kind of person to get on the internet and discuss all sorts of vsrious topics. The advantage of discussing topics on this board is that we do a good job of discussing a various viewpoints of lightning rod topics, and I think we do a bangup job of gettibg the facts discussed. Subgroups of reddit are mostly echo chambers that silence and punish accurate discussion.

[Tacenda]

46 minutes ago, provoman said:

It takes a special kind of person to get on the internet and discuss all sorts of vsrious topics. The advantage of discussing topics on this board is that we do a good job of discussing a various viewpoints of lightning rod topics, and I think we do a bangup job of gettibg the facts discussed. Subgroups of reddit are mostly echo chambers that silence and punish accurate discussion.

Agree!! Where would I be if I didn't have this board to set me straight on some occassions.

[provoman]

18 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Agree!! Where would I be if I didn't have this board to set me straight on some occassions.

and vice versa, what I like about discussion here is that we all will set each set each other strainght. 

[ksfisher]

23 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Consig aka Radio Free Mormon is interviewing McKenna and it should be available to watch tomorrow. DBMormon shared on FB about it. Should be interesting I guess. I'm wondering what we'll hear in the coming weeks about the unredacted statement/interview with Bishop. Never a dull moment in the LDS world, of course not many LDS actually are even aware of all this stuff. They are just living the LDS life not reading boards of this kind, or FairMormon, or going to LDS history symposiums or Sunstone symposiums. Wow, I forgot what that life was like. 

It sounds like most of them have enough going on in their own lives that they don’t need to worry about other peoples🙂

[Jeanne]

Anyone who hasn't heard the RFM podcast in two parts. I urge you to do so.  Factual...precise and very truthful.  IMO. 

[smac97]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Anyone who hasn't heard the RFM podcast in two parts. I urge you to do so.  Factual...precise and very truthful.  IMO. 

"Radio Free Mormon" is, it seems, a play on "Radio Free Europe," an anti-Communist radio broadcasting organization targeting the citizens of the eastern European "satellite countries" associated with the Soviet Union.

I just started listening to part 1 of the McKenna Denson interview, the announcer starts with the declaration that they are "Radio Free Mormon, on the air, broadcasting from behind enemy lines."

So the implication, I think, is that the LDS Church is analogous to the murderous, dictatorial communist regime of the Soviet Union.  And moving beyond implication, they explicitly characterize the LDS Church and its members as "[the] enemy."

Not the best way to introduce a source that is supposed to be "factual...precise and very truthful."

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited July 16, 2018 by smac97

[USU78]

13 minutes ago, smac97 said:

"Radio Free Mormon" is, it seems, a play to "Radio Free Europe," an anti-Communist radio broadcasting organization targeting the citizens of the eastern European "satellite countries" associated with the Soviet Union.

I just started listening to part 1 of the McKenna Denson interview, the announcer starts with the declaration that they are "Radio Free Mormon, on the air, broadcasting from behind enemy lines."

So the implication, I think, is that the LDS Church is analogous to the murderous, dictatorial communist regime of the Soviet Union.  And moving beyond implication, they explicitly characterize the LDS Church and its members as "[the] enemy."

Not the best way to introduce a source that is supposed to be "factual...precise and very truthful."

Thanks,

-Smac

I share your concerns.  Hard to take anything so packaged as anything other than wholesale attack.

[smac97]

5 minutes ago, USU78 said:

I share your concerns.  Hard to take anything so packaged as anything other than wholesale attack.

Yeah, I'm listening to it now.  I do like the factual statements from Ms. Denson, but the "editorializing" from the interviewer is intrusive and, in many instances, patently biased.

So not very impressed with the interviewer.  The statements directly from Ms. Denson, however, are illuminating.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

In the recording, Ms. Denson denies telling the therapist anything about Joseph Bishop.  She also denies saying anything about Joseph Bishop to Elder Monson.

Her explanation for not telling Elder Monson about it is that she has "no idea," but that part of it was that she thought nobody would believe her, that she had come from a broken home, that she had been a victim of childhood sexual assault, and that Joseph Bishop was a man of some stature in the Church.  That makes sense to me.

Thanks,

-Smac

[rockpond]

7 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Yeah, I'm listening to it now.  I do like the factual statements from Ms. Denson, but the "editorializing" from the interviewer is intrusive and, in many instances, patently biased.

So not very impressed with the interviewer.  The statements directly from Ms. Denson, however, are illuminating.

Thanks,

-Smac

I’ve listened to quite a few of RFM’s podcasts.  I agree that he has his biases... it is clearly not an attempt by him to present both sides of an issue.  But I think the name and “behind enemy lines” intro are just his quirky sense of humor and not an implication that the church is equivalent to the Nazi regime.  If the latter were the case, he probably would have resigned his membership, which he has apparently not done.  Perhaps he will stop by here to comment on your assessment of his intro. 

What I do enjoy about RFM is the detailed and methodical way that he researches and presents topics.  His attention to detail is something that many other amateur podcasters lack. 

That attention to detail shows through in this Denson interview.  When she inadvertently skips over important details, he follows up with questions.  I’ve listened to both parts and it was clear that he also wanted to make sure she had the opportunity to respond to many of the questions that have been raised about her account.  And, I can think of at least one time where he disagreed with Denson and took the side of the church. 

On a more general note:  I hope that the BYU PD will drop any appeals and release all of the reports and recordings.  If not, our Church leaders ought to step in and instruct them to do so.  Keeping this hidden is shameful for a church that ought to be openly addressing the issue rather than seeking to protect certain men. 

[smac97]

The interviewer ends the first portion of the interview by saying that "In honor of Joseph Bishop, we're going to close out part one of the very first ever interview on Radio Free Mormon - After Dark with Ray Charles singing his smash hit, '[Everybody's Doin'] the Mess Around.'"  He then plays the song.

Here are the lyrics to that song:

Quote

Ah, you can talk about the pit, barbecue
The band was jumpin', the people too
Ah, mess around
They doin' the mess around
They doin' the mess around,
Everybody doin' the mess around

Ah, everybody was juiced, you can, bet your soul
They did the boogie-woogie, with a steady roll
They mess around
They doin' the mess around
They doin' the mess around,
Everybody doin' the mess around

Now, ah, when I say stop don't you move a peg
When I say go, just ah, shake your leg
And do the mess around
I declare, do the mess around
Yeah do the mess around,
Everybody's doin' the mess around

Now let me have it there boy

Now you got it boy

(Yeah, ah, mess around, go on mess around)
(Mess around, boy)

Now this band's goin' to play from, nine to one
Everybody here's gonna have some fun
Doin' the mess around
Ah, doin' the mess around
They doin' the mess around,
Everybody doin' the mess around

Now you see that girl, with that, diamond ring
She knows how to, shake that thing
Mess around
I declare, she can mess around
Ah, mess around,
Everybody do the mess around

So "Radio Free Mormon" is interviewing a woman who was purportedly sexually assaulted by Joseph Bishop, and the interviewer closes the first part of the interview by introducing a song "in honor of Joseph Bishop" that includes lyrics like "She knows how to shake that thing / Mess around / I declare, she can mess around."

That seems . . . well, unseemly.  Crass.  Vulgar.  Making light of sexual assault.

So far, "Radio Free Mormon" does not impress.

-Smac

[smac97]

1 minute ago, rockpond said:

I’ve listened to quite a few of RFM’s podcasts.  I agree that he has his biases... it is clearly not an attempt by him to present both sides of an issue.  But I think the name and “behind enemy lines” intro are just his quirky sense of humor and not an implication that the church is equivalent to the Nazi regime.  

Not Nazis.  Soviets.  

But c'mon.  It's not an "implication" along these lines?  Seriously?

1 minute ago, rockpond said:

If the latter were the case, he probably would have resigned his membership, which he has apparently not done.  Perhaps he will stop by here to comment on your assessment of his intro. 

Who is he?  I don't recall him giving his name.

1 minute ago, rockpond said:

What I do enjoy about RFM is the detailed and methodical way that he researches and presents topics.  His attention to detail is something that many other amateur podcasters lack. 

That attention to detail shows through in this Denson interview.  When she inadvertently skips over important details, he follows up with questions.  I’ve listened to both parts and it was clear that he also wanted to make sure she had the opportunity to respond to many of the questions that have been raised about her account.  And, I can think of at least one time where he disagreed with Denson and took the side of the church. 

On a more general note:  I hope that the BYU PD will drop any appeals and release all of the reports and recordings.  If not, our Church leaders ought to step in and instruct them to do so.  Keeping this hidden is shameful for a church that ought to be openly addressing the issue rather than seeking to protect certain men. 

Putting aside the particulars of this case, I have some genuine reservations about private universities having police departments that A) have actual law enforcement authority, but B) resist basic legal oversight efforts such as GRAMA.  I haven't really put much thought into the legal issues, but my "gut instinct" is that if the BYUPD walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it should be treated like a duck.  So if BYU walks and talks like a police department, it should be treated like one.  That would include GRAMA.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[sunstoned]

30 minutes ago, USU78 said:

I share your concerns.  Hard to take anything so packaged as anything other than wholesale attack.

It's not the best metaphor. I'm guessing it was meant to be funny, but could be seen as offensive.

[rockpond]

The section on her friendship with the YSA bishop, Ron Leavitt, is very interesting.  He claims now that he didn’t trust her but he gave her a temple recommend, attended her sealing, let his daughter live with her in Taiwan, and let Denson stay at his house repeatedly.