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oklds

The "Heartland Theory" (?)

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On 1/1/2019 at 7:08 PM, oklds said:

The fact that coinage was found at that location dating to the 4th century BC, and containing elements endemic to North America is irrefutable evidence that people were mining metals in North America and pressing coins with it within 120 years of Lehi's arrival here.

Fact: there is no evidence of any kind to support coinage in North America or that people "were mining metals" that long ago. See; JSTOR Pre-Columbian Old World Coins In America Many other academic sites will confirm this.

--The patterns that have been found indicate that, insofar as coins are concerned, no case can be made for pre-Columbian contact between America and the Mediterranean. When one examines the dates of the coin discoveries, the distribution of the finds, and the times when the coins were minted, the most plausible interpretation is that the coins were lost recently. In fact, most of them appear to have been lost since World War II. It is also apparent that, in spite of their age and their historic significance, Roman and Greek coins are frequently lost, in both urban and rural settings. The fact that a coin is turned up in a hitherto unplowed field proves nothing other than that it was once lost there. Confirmation of these interpretations comes from England, where Alexandrian coins occur with some frequency. According to Robert Carson, Department of Coins and Medals, British Museum (personal communication) ~ Jeremiah F. Epstein

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As to Rod Meldrum and his theories, I consider myself biased because I dislike him personally.  However, that does not make him wrong.  In fact, these coins are evidence with great weight that he is almost certainly right. 

You are giving "great weight" to false evidence and way too much credit to a man [Meldrum] who's own church has banned him from doing anymore firesides in the church buildings. Meldrum continually ignores science that shows any of his theories to be wrong (which is most of them)

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Think about this: ... ...I could be wrong, but I'm not.

You could be wrong, and you are.

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And, yes, I keep capitalizing the words SHEETS and PAGES, since most folks can't seem to grasp (no pun intended) the difference.

Please scan and post or link us to these sheets and pages.

 

Just an FYI, I have personally held the Bat Creek Stone in my hands and studied it, its origins, its history, and all those involved. It is a fake. Even the museum were it was displayed had a sign noting its name and history and that it was a fake to perpetuate the popular held belief of Hebrews in America.

How do you account for the lack of population in the Hopewell, compared with what the Book of Mormon requires?

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I do not account for it at all.  I have coins which contain mineral endemic to North America.  Period.  The minerals contained in the metal of those coins were not 'lost' in the coins.  Nor do I care what "many other academic sites" will confirm or not.  It is what it is.

Furthermore, I do not know that they were pressed (do you understand the difference?) by any peoples from the Book of Mormon.  However, I am convinced that there was not another civilization that came here, mined metal, pressed coins, and then left them here and went home.

From what I understand, the Hopewell is a fraud.

And no, I am not going to make copies for your benefit.

So, it seems the only thing we shall agree upon is that Rod Meldrum is a jackass.  If this back-and-forth diatribe accomplishes nothing more than that, it will have been worth it anyway, in my opinion.  :)

Regards

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1 hour ago, oklds said:

From what I understand, the Hopewell is a fraud.

What does this mean?

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, oklds said:

I have coins which contain mineral endemic to North America. 

"endemic[?]" Are you saying the meteors that hit North America had a different iron makeup of the meteors that hit the Old World? Are you saying that North America had the knowledge of smelting? I can see the cold hammering of copper, some gold, and meteoritic iron. However, any evidence for smelting is really not there. If you examine claims for pre-columbian smelting you will find many inconsistencies, the actual evidence lacking or even made up.

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The minerals contained in the metal of those coins were not 'lost' in the coins. 

Copper or Iron from North America was not transported to the Old World. (1) There was no sailing back and forth from North America before Columbus; (2) Even if there was a some sort of trade system connecting the  Old World and the Americas, No country would have financed it for a very expensive transportation, time wasting venture, for metals they already had in abundance; (3) A claim that the purity levels of a metal (like copper) is different from each world, to prove there was pre-Columbian crossing is simply silly (again why would the Old World want any metals (other than silver or gold) when they already had an abundance and could acquire it cheaper and in less time? (4) Moreover, the purity level can be made to match both worlds by purging out the impurities (dross) from ore the copper was found in.

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Nor do I care what "many other academic sites" will confirm or not.  It is what it is.

I understand that and it is certainly your right to do so. However, to simply swipe away the conclusions of scientist, historians, and anthropologist which disprove your opinions will be a detriment to you and frankly is a little bit arrogant compared to the many scholars who have come up with different theories other than the ones you subscribe to. 

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Furthermore, I do not know that they were pressed (do you understand the difference?) by any peoples from the Book of Mormon. 

Please define "pressed" as you use it here. Pressed do you mean here, the molding of coins via heating a metal and pouring into a mold or cold hammering into a small disk? There is no evidence of coins used as a monetary system here in the Americas before the arrival of Columbus. Generally terms like cold hammering, smelting etc are the terms scientist will use [metallurgist, geologist, anthropologist]. The extraction of a metal from an ore via smelting (not hammering it out) has occurred in the Old World for a long time. The combining of alloys has occured as well. In fact, so important was that discovery, entire periods of time were named after the process (i.e. Bronze Age, Iron Age). IIRC smelting first was used in pre-columbian times in the Americas in South America (I want to say in Peru, but I could be wrong). Also, by the Mayan. This metallurgy in the Americas was generally with copper, gold and silver. The combining of copper, silver, gold occurred independently from that of the old world. Most anthropologist posit that through kilning of pottery the metallurgy was discovered. 

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However, I am convinced that there was not another civilization that came here, mined metal, pressed coins, and then left them here and went home.

Your sentence here is pretty broad. One could conclude from your sentence that you are convinced that another civilization came here, they mined metals, they "pressed" coins, and transported the mined metals and pressed coins back to the civilization they came from. Which again, I ask, for what purpose? The metals,coins  were already in abundance in the Old World, the coins made in the Old World would be ludicrous to think an entrepreneur, a king, a emperor or (name your leader) would allow, let alone finance such a venture.

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From what I understand, the Hopewell is a fraud.

I do not know what you mean here. The Hopewell certainly existed, although they did not call themselves "Hopewell."

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And no, I am not going to make copies for your benefit.

(1) I am sure it would benefit all reading this, not just for me. (2) quoting something to us without  citing a reference source, link, or a way to check the sources is unprofessional and causes mistrust which may causes a credibility problem with you.

Furthermore, I could CFR you. The rules of this site says you have to produce the info when asked or take back the inferences you made concerning the issue. However, I really do not have much interest in the papers, so I wont. 

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So, it seems the only thing we shall agree upon is that Rod Meldrum is a jackass.  If this back-and-forth diatribe accomplishes nothing more than that, it will have been worth it anyway, in my opinion.  :)

I do not think Meldrum is the word you used, but I do believe his pride has been hurt and he wants to defend his reputation and does so vainly and wrongly by using science incorrectly, calling opposers apostates (he did so to me personally), and in a limited way his intentions are also more financial and less spiritual.

oklds, I do not wish to offend you in anyway. I do wish to persuade you to open up to all the science, accept all the academic scientific theories on these issues and then work with them and find solutions that meet them. I would also advise not to choose a concept and then only look at theories that collaborate that concept while throwing out the vast science that disprove that concept. That type of selective choosing will only cause misunderstanding, fractures in friendships, and problems with credibility. 

Edited by Anijen
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I agree.  You have shown me the light.  I will immediately take the metal articles (you notice I did not refer to them as artifacts because you said they weren't) to the local metal recycling yard, and burn the papers, since they are taking up valuable SD box space.  Thank You so Much!

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11 minutes ago, oklds said:

I agree.  You have shown me the light.  I will immediately take the metal articles (you notice I did not refer to them as artifacts because you said they weren't) to the local metal recycling yard, and burn the papers, since they are taking up valuable SD box space. 

The sarcasm is not justified. I mean, maybe I deserve it, I dunno...

I was merely addressing some important issues, such as the existing contrary theories to your own, the backing of peer reviewed scholars, and the science that currently disproves the theories you may have about pre-Columbian coinage and the Old World using their ships for transporting minerals, such as copper and coins, back to the Old World. I wonder why would a country with abundant copper resources and already has the way to make and use coins need to have them purged, refined, and made in America and then have shipped back to that country that already has the same resources right there?

If questioning the logic of such venture causes you to radically cause you to burn what you consider important papers and/or take metal back for recycling, then, I would definitely question your soundness of mind. However, I do not question your intelligence and I recognised the sarcastic intent of your post.

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Thank You so Much!

So, in like return... You are very welcome. So glad I could of been of assistance. Incredibly joyous for your recognition of the light I have brought for you.

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